South West Trains May timetable; train lengthening and stabling

[infobleep]

I don't think there is a thread on this but correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't believe there are major timetable changes for South West Trains but they are lengthening some trains.

I was surprised to see the 18.25 Waterloo to Alton service was being lengthened from 8 coaches to 12. Whenever I've travelled on it, I never found I had a problem getting a seat. However I used infrequently. Does anyone who travels on it regularly know if it's overcrowded?

I doubt it's as overcrowded as the 18.39 Waterloo to Poole service. However it benefits from having the*Desiro*class 450 rolling stock, which I think is the type being cascaded now they have got some Southern rolling stock.

The 18.39 Waterloo to Poole service uses the Desire class 444 rolling stock. I don't know if that is being cascaded at all, either now or in the future.

I see that additional sidings, where the lines diverge to head to Cobham and Woking, have been built in Guildford. Are the existing sidings too short to accommodate 10 car trains or will their just be more trains being stabled at Guildford?

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[455driver]

I see that additional sidings, where the lines diverge to head to Cobham and Woking, have been built in Guildford. Are the existing sidings too short to accommodate 10 car trains or will their just be more trains being stabled at Guildford?

There are more trains being stabled at Guildford, the current sidings can accomodate 12 coach trains.

 

[TEW]

I believe the 18:39 Waterloo-Poole is planned to increase to an 8-car 450, but it is dependant on the 458/5 cascade, so it may be a little while yet before it is lengthened.

 

[cinsekrap]

I don't think there is a thread on this but correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't believe there are major timetable changes for South West Trains but they are lengthening some trains.

I was surprised to see the 18.25 Waterloo to Alton service was being lengthened from 8 coaches to 12. Whenever I've travelled on it, I never found I had a problem getting a seat. However I used infrequently. Does anyone who travels on it regularly know if it's overcrowded?

I doubt it's as overcrowded as the 18.39 Waterloo to Poole service. However it benefits from having the*Desiro*class 450 rolling stock, which I think is the type being cascaded now they have got some Southern rolling stock.

The 18.39 Waterloo to Poole service uses the Desire class 444 rolling stock. I don't know if that is being cascaded at all, either now or in the future.

I see that additional sidings, where the lines diverge to head to Cobham and Woking, have been built in Guildford. Are the existing sidings too short to accommodate 10 car trains or will their just be more trains being stabled at Guildford?

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18:25 to Alton is generally crowded until Aldershot, certainly with people standing and very busy between Waterloo and Woking.

 

[infobleep]

What type of trains are the 458 as in colour? Are they the white ones I was referring to as 444?

With more trains eventually being stabled at Guildford, will they get there via ECS movements or replace the need for existing ECS movements? Or will they be part of additional services or extensions of existing services?

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[hassaanhc]

What type of trains are the 458 as in colour? Are they the white ones I was referring to as 444?

With more trains eventually being stabled at Guildford, will they get there via ECS movements or replace the need for existing ECS movements? Or will they be part of additional services or extensions of existing services?

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The white ones with single doors at each end of the coach are the 444s, if they have double doors at 1/3 and 2/3 positions then they are the 458 (currently limited to Waterloo-Reading and Waterloo-Aldershot via Frimley services. However these are to become blue on refurbishment.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't think there is a thread on this but correct me if I'm wrong.

The 18.39 Waterloo to Poole service uses the Desire class 444 rolling stock. I don't know if that is being cascaded at all, either now or in the future.

There are a number of previous threads on this.

There are definitely both 450 and 444 changes planned, once the full 458/5 and 456 fleets are in service. That's the only explanation for the mainline changes I've extracted from one of SWT's press releases here:

It will also further lengthen seven South West Trains mainline services:

Morning peak

Southampton Airport Parkway to Waterloo (8 car to 12 car)
Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo via Eastleigh (5 car to 10 car) an extra 444 added
Southampton Central to Waterloo (4 car to 5 car) a single 450 becomes a 444
Evening peak

Waterloo to Poole (5 car to 8 car)
 - so a single 444 becomes 2 x 450
Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh (5 car to 8 car)
 as above
Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh (8 car to 10 car)
 2 x 450 becomes 2 x 444
Waterloo to Alton (8 car to 12 car)

 

[infobleep]

Thanks for all that. Hopefully commuters will be happy with the changes.

I think it's great that South West Trains are doing all these improvements even enough it's still mid franchise.

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[infobleep]

Hopefully the Southampton Central to Waterloo will be the 8.59 from Woking because that's packed at Woking, although seats are possible because not everyone sits down. However then a load more board it at Surbiton, with not so many alighting. It's one of the few Southampton trains, if only one, to stop at Surbiton.

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[Nicks]

I'm surprised that this service from Southampton even bothers to stop at Surbiton, it's only 4 cars, arrives full and almost impossible to get a seat on as so few leave, also at the same departure time (09.11) from Surbiton an 8-car 455 runs semi-fast to Waterloo - and I always get a seat on that one.

Substituting a 5 car 444 will only cause delayed boarding at Surbiton in any case.

Passenger numbers tend to drop off a little after 09.00 as people are waiting for the off peak tickets to start at 09.30.

 

[Kite159]

There are more trains being stabled at Guildford, the current sidings can accomodate 12 coach trains.

And isn't Guildford getting some new sidings to stable some of the longer trains?

 

[swt_passenger]

And isn't Guildford getting some new sidings to stable some of the longer trains?

Yes they are, and as mentioned in the first post...

 

[infobleep]

I'm surprised that this service from Southampton even bothers to stop at Surbiton, it's only 4 cars, arrives full and almost impossible to get a seat on as so few leave, also at the same departure time (09.11) from Surbiton an 8-car 455 runs semi-fast to Waterloo - and I always get a seat on that one.

Substituting a 5 car 444 will only cause delayed boarding at Surbiton in any case.

Passenger numbers tend to drop off a little after 09.00 as people are waiting for the off peak tickets to start at 09.30.

I thought the off peak was from 9am. Clearly I was wrong, so I'm very surprised at how busy it is.

The 9.11 fills the lack of a 9.08 that usually runs fast to Waterloo at other hours. Outside of peak rush hour the 9.08 is a service from Alton. During peak rush hour though the 8.08 is a stopper from West Byfleet. Perhaps they feel they can't reduce the number of trains that run from Surbiton to Waterloo between 9am and 10am. How busy would the other semi fast train be if the Southampton one didn't stop?

As for the semi fast. I prefer to think of it as the semi slow. The time it takes to reach Waterloo is closer to that of the stopping service than the fast service. The fast service stops at 1 or 2 stations. The semi fast stops at 5 stations and the stopping service 7, which is why the semi fast isn't that much faster than the stopping service. May be that's why people board the packed one. They would rather arrive as soon as possible. Also the fast has loos, the other doesn't.

I must say I'm glad to be leaving the 9.11 fast at Surbiton rather than boarding it there.

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[TEW]

I thought the off peak was from 9am. Clearly I was wrong, so I'm very surprised at how busy it is.

There is no one time at which off peak tickets become valid, it depends on the ticket. But for Travelcards and Off-Peak Oyster PAYG fares it is after 09:30.

 

[hassaanhc]

I thought the off peak was from 9am. Clearly I was wrong, so I'm very surprised at how busy it is.

The 9.11 fills the lack of a 9.08 that usually runs fast to Waterloo at other hours. Outside of peak rush hour the 9.08 is a service from Alton. During peak rush hour though the 8.08 is a stopper from West Byfleet. Perhaps they feel they can't reduce the number of trains that run from Surbiton to Waterloo between 9am and 10am. How busy would the other semi fast train be if the Southampton one didn't stop?

As for the semi fast. I prefer to think of it as the semi slow. The time it takes to reach Waterloo is closer to that of the stopping service than the fast service. The fast service stops at 1 or 2 stations. The semi fast stops at 5 stations and the stopping service 7, which is why the semi fast isn't that much faster than the stopping service. May be that's why people board the packed one. They would rather arrive as soon as possible. Also the fast has loos, the other doesn't.

I must say I'm glad to be leaving the 9.11 fast at Surbiton rather than boarding it there.

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I also recall noticing this morning that between 0900-1000 there a train starting from Woking that is non-stop after that to Waterloo? Having said that, I think Surbiton is lucky in having faster trains that nearby stations don't . I've done the 1923 non-stop Waterloo-Surbiton only which is a double 455, a pretty busy train that!

 

[TEW]

I also recall noticing this morning that between 0900-1000 there a train starting from Woking that is non-stop after that to Waterloo?

That's the standard pattern in the morning peak. They run roughly every half hour from 0641 to 0847.

 

[infobleep]

They just don't have the space to stop the Woking stopping services beyond Surbiton during morning peak. Issue improves I the evening because of a fast through line heading south that avoids any platforms.

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[hassaanhc]

They just don't have the space to stop the Woking stopping services beyond Surbiton during morning peak. Issue improves I the evening because of a fast through line heading south that avoids any platforms.

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Ah yes I noticed that

 

[infobleep]

New sidings at Guildford being built. Taken on Monday 12th May around 8.35am

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[TEW]

The only problem is, they were meant to be in use next week. They aren't quite finished yet and there's still unresolved issues with them

 

[talldave]

Don't worry, I'm sure some bureaucrat will ensure that as long as they're less than 5 weeks late they'll still be classed as being delivered on time

 

[infobleep]

The only problem is, they were meant to be in use next week. They aren't quite finished yet and there's still unresolved issues with them

Does that mean they run out of space next week or do they have additional sidings they can use elsewhere. I guess it's not quite as simple as storing a train somewhere as they need to get to places to run a service and staff need to sign on and put up the train etc.

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[swt_passenger]

Does that mean they run out of space next week or do they have additional sidings they can use elsewhere. I guess it's not quite as simple as storing a train somewhere as they need to get to places to run a service and staff need to sign on and put up the train etc.

The majority of the planned train strengthening is at least a year behind schedule - if they can't stable the few extra 456s that have arrived they've got big problems...

 

[infobleep]

What caused the delay? Hadn't realised there was one. It isn't something that would be widely promoted though.

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[Matt Taylor]

If it's for the 456s then they simply be stabled at Wimbledon overnight or possibly Woking. It just requires some short term planning of train crew and carriage working notices.

 

[swt_passenger]

What caused the delay? Hadn't realised there was one. It isn't something that would be widely promoted though.

There's 60 pages in the traction sub forum discussing the saga with the 458/5s. They were all supposed to be delivered by now, and all passenger service by July 2014, providing full 10 car service on the Windsor service, and various other routes such as the Hounslow loop and Weybridge. This would have allowed various internal cascades.

As of yesterday they were using just 2 out of 36 in passenger service. The original timetable is here:

• South West Trains expects to complete the rolling stock deployment by July 2014, with the first 10-car service operating from May 2013.

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/extracapacity.aspx

I think the 456s being refurbished at Wolverton works are also slightly behind schedule, but because this is only by a few weeks it is not being discussed so much.

 

[infobleep]

Unfortunately like a lot of train companies, they don't support all of their Web Site pages on mobiles so the above link doesn't work on my phone. I even came across a link on their mobile site recently which didn't work. Similar message about not being supported yet appeared. I reported that one though as it was accessed from their mobile site. May be one day they will modernise and have a Web Site designed to work across all device types.

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[infobleep]

There's 60 pages in the traction sub forum discussing the saga with the 458/5s. They were all supposed to be delivered by now, and all passenger service by July 2014, providing full 10 car service on the Windsor service, and various other routes such as the Hounslow loop and Weybridge. This would have allowed various internal cascades.

As of yesterday they were using just 2 out of 36 in passenger service. The original timetable is here:



I think the 456s being refurbished at Wolverton works are also slightly behind schedule, but because this is only by a few weeks it is not being discussed so much.

Unfortunately as I don't know the model numbers of trains, I wouldn't make the connection between 458/5s and SWT train lengthening. I will hunt out the thread though.

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[cjmillsnun]

Unfortunately as I don't know the model numbers of trains, I wouldn't make the connection between 458/5s and SWT train lengthening. I will hunt out the thread though.

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I'll summarise for you quickly using pictures...

The 458/0s are 4 coach white trains with doors at 1/3 and 2/3 along the each coach.

They're being upgraded with a cab and gangway connection that is compatible with the 450s (blue trains)

and 444s (5 coach white trains)

for emergency use as well as an extra coach taken from the redundant ex gatwick express stock (as well as the remaining coaches from the Gat Ex 460s being converted to be the same). They will be reclassed as 458/5s when done and look like this

Unfortunately there have been a few problems so they're very late into service.

 

[infobleep]

Thanks for that. Makes perfect sense now. Which rolling stock company owns all of them? I assume this can only be done because all the rolling stock is owned by one company.

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