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Headcode website proposal

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A-driver

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No, Network Rail would release the data like "65003&70965&70966&65004". The app users would have could show them in any number of ways, for example a map of the platform with their position shown as a blue dot, and an arrow where the correct door on the train should be.

The current TRUST/TD/signalling data is just unintelligible numbers, but apps turn it into useful predictions.


But would the time and money involved in doing that not be far better spent providing that info at stations as opposed to third party apps which require phones, internet connections etc? And the amount of delays caused by people looking for bike spaces is minimal so not justifiable of the cost of sending the data out.

Plus you are relying on people still using and understanding the info for any benefit to come of it. And considering many struggle to see 'formed of 4 coaches' on the platform display and still stand at the 8 car stop if say it will be meaningless to the vast majority.
 
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PermitToTravel

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But would the time and money involved in doing that not be far better spent providing that info at stations as opposed to third party apps which require phones, internet connections etc? And the amount of delays caused by people looking for bike spaces is minimal so not justifiable of the cost of sending the data out.

The same could be said of pretty much all the other data that's been released. People want access to more data, and I believe Network Rail already have permanent staff who create/maintain open data feeds.

Plus you are relying on people still using and understanding the info for any benefit to come of it. And considering many struggle to see 'formed of 4 coaches' on the platform display and still stand at the 8 car stop if say it will be meaningless to the vast majority.

Releasing this data would alleviate that. Imagine if, when using Google Maps, Citymapper, &c, to navigate by train, you were told where to stand on the platform.

At any rate, it's just wrong to say that if some people won't use something then nobody should be allowed to.
 
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A-driver

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The same could be said of pretty much all the other data that's been released. People want access to more data, and I believe Network Rail already have permanent staff who create/maintain open data feeds.



Releasing this data would alleviate that. Imagine if, when using Google Maps, Citymapper, &c, to navigate by train, you were told where to stand on the platform.

At any rate, it's just wrong to say that if some people won't use something then nobody should be allowed to.


I can see where you are coming from and am personally not against it but I can't see enough of a case posted here for it to happen any time soon. In some cases it would also be counter productive- train loadings are bad enough at the moment with everyone cramming into the same coach to be close to their stations exit whilst other coaches have free seats. It would be even worse with an app encouraging people to do it to!
 

PermitToTravel

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People will do that anyway and there are already apps teaching people how. I meant highlighting, for example, which part of a 12-car platform a 4-car Thameslink train will arrive on.

Personally I think there's more of a case for it than there is for real-time PPM statistics, or for publishing the colour of signals live, both of which have already been done
 

ValleyLines142

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Unit allocations mean nothing tho the normal passenger either!!!!!

True, however unit allocations are much more useful than headcodes too, yet headcodes are available to the public.

You could go down the argument of why headcodes are published, yet allocations aren't.

DarloRich said:
I am afraid my views on this subject are never going to chime with the majority on here. I am trying to chose my words very carefully as i have no desire to offend and will say only that I believe such an application would have extremely limited interest to anyone in the real world.

That's fine, you're more than entitled to your opinion :)

In all farness you're right, it is of no use to most people, but there are a minority, and it is very important not to forget that.

Except that chances are that it will have been removed from the train by that time-if you left it on the train then the train will have turned around and most probably cleaned by the time it gets back to your station, or another passenger will have picked it up and handed it in.

That all depends on what service you're on. If you've caught a Manchester to London service, then you're probably right. If you've caught a local service in Manchester on say a Rose Hill Marple or Hadfield service, then I don't think they're checked thoroughly.

That can be done with a timetable. The already available timetable data allows a vehicle's entire diagram to be calculated.

Indeed, however what if there's a set swap, as was the case with 390155 last week?

People will do that anyway and there are already apps teaching people how. I meant highlighting, for example, which part of a 12-car platform a 4-car Thameslink train will arrive on.

Personally I think there's more of a case for it than there is for real-time PPM statistics, or for publishing the colour of signals live, both of which have already been done

Agreed.
 

Tom

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Finally i do not believe that an operational system such as TOPS should be made available merely to allow people to clear classes or track a certain unit! Show me a real world application for this data that genuinely helps the majority of passengers and I will support it. Until then, i am out.

This chimes quite resonantly with the common reasons for not releasing any data. 5 years ago, there was no inclination to publicly release the raw basic timetable feeds as it was felt that all of those who had access to it did all that you could ever want with it. As has been shown subsequently, loads of great stuff with just that data can be done but the vast majority of it has come forward since the release of the data. And not all of that data is released, see freight running numbers, etc.

I have a number of ideas actually in the area that are discussed and I've been trying to get some stuff directly to see if I can do it. It's a bit of an uphill battle. With all of this data, though, it's worth noting that a lot of the time it's not the data that is released - I totally agree that the coach TOPS numbers are about as helpful as a chocolate fireguard - it's about what can be abstracted from it.

Consider a train service that is formed of coaches (completely made up) 60001, 60002, 60003, 60004 and 60005. From this I can see that it is:
  • a 5 coach train
  • 60002 represents the first class carriage
  • 60003 and 60004 both have 3 cycle spaces
  • 60005 has disabled facilities

I can also from that, given some other data, work out where it will stop on a platform and therefore where each coach will be. You can use this information to point people as to where to stand - whether that's via a smartphone app or via the platform CIS.

Let's say that this train is shorter than normal, it's normally a 10 coach train. By delivering the short formation information earlier (which is already done, I agree) you can give people greater information as to whether they want to get on a different service. If they don't, then you can inform people that they need to be in different places on the platform compared to normal. If this service had 30 stops and stopped every 3 minutes for 30 seconds, you have a station being completed every 3.5 minutes. Over the course of an hour, you complete 17 station calls. If the short formation adds 10 seconds to the dwell, that's a potential 3 minute delay (let's say this is the headway on the line as well). If you can reduce that, even by 5 seconds per stop, you can fit more capacity on the line.
 

phil8715

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It's only really orientated at rail enthusiasts not the general public. On real time trains they have the head code, class of unit and in some cases the retail code. I can't see why Gemini can't put on loco and unit numbers.

Also can't see what people mean about sensitive information, if it was sensitive info, real time trains wouldn't be allowed to operate.

I can understand why they wouldn't release information about freight trains and the contents of them but passenger and ecs working should be released.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

yorkie

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I don't think anyone is saying loco numbers and formations are sensitive? Have you misinterpreted a previous post?
 

LBSCR Times

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And of course, during times of disruption, if the Control don't update Genius, then the information is useless.
Updating Genius is not a high priority during disruption, it is often left for several hours.....
 

455driver

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And of course, during times of disruption, if the Control don't update Genius, then the information is useless.
Updating Genius is not a high priority during disruption, it is often left for several hours.....

Quite often they will text the guards asking them if they are working, or have seen, unit number 450xxx as they have lost it.

Not that it has been lost, just that it has been stepped up to work another service but nobody knows what service.
 

LowLevel

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I once had a unit genuinely get lost - we had to check every train coming in to the station to find it for hours, as the wrong gen had been input in the morning and they just couldn't work out what this unit was doing.

As it happens it eventually turned up in the shed, up on the jacks. I still find it amazing how these things can happen despite the wonders of modern technology :)
 
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