FirstBus and Stagecoach Manchester salary

[PGSX]

Hi,

First and Stagecoach in Manchester are recruiting new trainee bus drivers. I wondered what's the pay in First after 12 months...

(all the information below is not confidential, I found it online)

Stagecoach offers:

Training £7.50
PCV holders £9.00
£10.66 after 12 months for a new driver (same rate after 3 months for qualified PCV holders).

First is £8.50 when qualified PCV driver, I presume it's less during training. Does anyone know if there's any pay rise after 12 months of service as in Stagecoach? Thanks.

 

[BestWestern]

Hence the reason the bus industry remains firmly in the doldrums; who can be expected to have any pride or satisfaction in such an abysmally paid job.

 

[Greenback]

It's poor pay for what is a professional, highly skilled and pressurised job.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Hi,

First and Stagecoach in Manchester are recruiting new trainee bus drivers. I wondered what's the pay in First after 12 months...

(all the information below is not confidential, I found it online)

Stagecoach offers:

Training £7.50
PCV holders £9.00
£10.66 after 12 months for a new driver (same rate after 3 months for qualified PCV holders).

First is £8.50 when qualified PCV driver, I presume it's less during training. Does anyone know if there's any pay rise after 12 months of service as in Stagecoach? Thanks.

A pal of mine who is a driver with Stagecoach is on a lot more than £10.66...

 

[Mr Manager]

The real point being.

You are a pcv licence holder. you work the same routes. Drive the same Buses as someone who has say 4 years service yet for less money for a period of time !!!!!!

A certain company i worked for it was 6 months and the manager always maintained that he would sack them for anything to replace them with another new starter so he could hit his salary targets as set by head office

 

[Qwerty133]

The real point being.

You are a pcv licence holder. you work the same routes. Drive the same Buses as someone who has say 4 years service yet for less money for a period of time !!!!!!

A certain company i worked for it was 6 months and the manager always maintained that he would sack them for anything to replace them with another new starter so he could hit his salary targets as set by head office

Sounds like a excellent company to work for, who need name and shaming, but can understand why you haven't if it risks identifying you.

 

[Robertj21a]

Sounds like a excellent company to work for, who need name and shaming, but can understand why you haven't if it risks identifying you.

Sad to say that there are quite a few companies that would fit this 'poor quality management' criteria.

Robert

 

[Surreyman]

Chatting to someone recently who works in the Bus industry, it was clear that in many cases, staff who have been with companies for many years, are often on better terms & conditions than new starters, I don't just mean rates of pay but pensions, annual leave, sickness, length of breaks etc etc.
This isn't just the transport industry, its happening all over.

 

[Robertj21a]

Chatting to someone recently who works in the Bus industry, it was clear that in many cases, staff who have been with companies for many years, are often on better terms & conditions than new starters, I don't just mean rates of pay but pensions, annual leave, sickness, length of breaks etc etc.
This isn't just the transport industry, its happening all over.

From my experience this has invariably been the case, nothing unique to bus companies. It certainly used to be a 'carrot' to encourage long term service.

Robert

 

[Titfield]

As regards driver pay the law of supply and demand seems to be telling.
There seems to be no shortage of Class D Entitlement holders seeking work.

As regards different levels of pay and benefits to long term employees whilst this is nothing new the differences do seem to be more acute these days.
One example I am aware of is that annual leave used to rise with length of service. However now new starters do not get any increase in annual leave. Likewise sick pay for long serving employees is full pay whereas for new employees it is SSP (Statutory Sick Pay) only.
Pensions may be final salary schemes for employees who joined before a certain date, thereafter it is a money purchase scheme.

 

[Greenback]

As regards different levels of pay and benefits to long term employees whilst this is nothing new the differences do seem to be more acute these days.
One example I am aware of is that annual leave used to rise with length of service. However now new starters do not get any increase in annual leave. Likewise sick pay for long serving employees is full pay whereas for new employees it is SSP (Statutory Sick Pay) only.
Pensions may be final salary schemes for employees who joined before a certain date, thereafter it is a money purchase scheme.

It's easier to erode terms and conditions for new entrants while leaving current employees protected than it is to try and change the contracts of the latter.

 

[Titfield]

The problem starts when new staff discover that they are getting a raw deal when compared to old staff.

Resentment soon builds up and that can manifest itself in all sorts of ways.

 

[Greenback]

I've never been in that position, but I can see you have a point. It must be galling to discover that colleagues doing the same job have benefits that you will likely never receive, yet are doing the same job.

But having said that, the new employee was, presumably, satisfied enough with what was on offer to apply for the job in the first place.

In the end, though, it's only the workers themselves that can negotiate and fight for improved conditions, just as it needs to the agreement of the workforce to sign them away. Any resentment I felt toward longer serving colleagues would be related to that, though there would obviously be no way of knowing who was actually in favour of the changes, and who was against them.

 

[Robertj21a]

I really can't understand what the fuss is about. Everywhere I've worked it's been the case that the longer serving employees will accrue additional benefits - holidays, bonuses, perks etc - over a period of time. This has always seemed highly sensible to me as, for the employer, it encourages longer service and for the employee it's something for them to aspire to.

Robert

 

[Titfield]

Well there are times when you might not want long(er) serving employees.

An employer may take the view that he would rather be able to recruit new employees on the terms and conditions he can offer at the time rather than the historic terms and conditions expected.

Whereas longer holidays due to longer service is / was quite common I wonder how many "new" employees are now being offered that.

Longer service means higher redundancy pay liabilities. An employer may wish to be able to flex the workforce and this is more effective when the average service is shorter.

 

[Robertj21a]

Well there are times when you might not want long(er) serving employees.

An employer may take the view that he would rather be able to recruit new employees on the terms and conditions he can offer at the time rather than the historic terms and conditions expected.

Whereas longer holidays due to longer service is / was quite common I wonder how many "new" employees are now being offered that.

Longer service means higher redundancy pay liabilities. An employer may wish to be able to flex the workforce and this is more effective when the average service is shorter.

Yes, that may be true of some employers nowadays but it will never encourage any form of commitment or loyalty from the staff once that becomes routine policy. Even now I hear that a few members of staff still actually like to feel part of a successful business [....shock, amazement etc......] - though such individuals seem to be a dying breed in the transport industries.

 

[Titfield]

Commitment and Loyalty.

Interesting words because I begin to wonder what they mean currently to a) employees b) employers.

Sadly in my recent experience they just mean that long serving employee are taken for granted.

 

[Robertj21a]

Commitment and Loyalty.

Interesting words because I begin to wonder what they mean currently to a) employees b) employers.

Sadly in my recent experience they just mean that long serving employee are taken for granted.

It probably depends on the quality of the management at the company involved.

Robert

 

[RT4038]

Quite an interesting subject! Long serving does not necessarily mean loyal or committed. It can mean awkward and resistant to change.

In an industry where drivers wages represent such a high proportion of operating costs, and relatively low barriers for entry by new competitors, there is always going to be pressure on salary levels towards the lowest market rate. Yes, good experienced staff are preferable, but the public and those awarding contracts generally go for the cheapest fare/price and this is then reflected in wage rates. Sadly the cost of quality staff is at a discount in the customers eyes.

For evidence of this, you only have to look through this forum.

 

[34D]

Quite an interesting subject! Long serving does not necessarily mean loyal or committed. It can mean awkward and resistant to change.

Too true. Many so called senior drivers are people I would like to get rid of, if the truth be known.

 

[notadriver]

Why is it then that HGV drivers can still command high rates of pay - bonuses for working at weekends or overtime ? Maybe there are starter pcv jobs and more senior roles - Megabus for example ?

 

[RT4038]

I do not know much about the HGV industry, but I guess that the number of people wishing/qualified to do that job in relation to the number of vacancies is fewer, hence the need to pay more to attract and retain staff (if this is indeed generally the case?).

Megabus staff do not get paid a higher rate than normal driving staff - however the nature of the duties can mean a higher total salary due to a combination of longer hours, breaks taken away from home depot and higher proportion of weekend/night work. However this will vary Depot to Depot, as pay/conditions are all different.

 

[Robertj21a]

Quite an interesting subject! Long serving does not necessarily mean loyal or committed. It can mean awkward and resistant to change.

In an industry where drivers wages represent such a high proportion of operating costs, and relatively low barriers for entry by new competitors, there is always going to be pressure on salary levels towards the lowest market rate. Yes, good experienced staff are preferable, but the public and those awarding contracts generally go for the cheapest fare/price and this is then reflected in wage rates. Sadly the cost of quality staff is at a discount in the customers eyes.

For evidence of this, you only have to look through this forum.

Sorry, that's actually down to poor management if they can't be removed.

Robert

 

[RT4038]

I don't think there was any implication that they cannot be, or are not being, removed. However, depending as to which level this is taken, could be construed as taking long service employees for granted.

My comments were in response to the posting questioning how loyalty and commitment are perceived, and that of long serving employees being taken for granted.

 

[SWTH]

The fact of the matter is, the bus industry does not care about drivers. A driver with a perfectly valid issue (such as a duty that does not comply with the rules) is treated as a 'militant' and a troublemaker, despite it being his licence at risk.

Commitment and loyalty are nothing but distant memories these days. The HGV industry is different as it is rare to find an employer willing to put a driver through their test. Therefore there isn't a big pool of people with 'C' licences, unlike the bus industry where company training schools were established in order to churn out new drivers as fast as possible to replace those leaving. This in turn created a large pool of 'D' category drivers, meaning that whilst most companies have high staff turnover, there is usually someone else willing to replace them.

 

[Robertj21a]

The fact of the matter is, the bus industry does not care about drivers. A driver with a perfectly valid issue (such as a duty that does not comply with the rules) is treated as a 'militant' and a troublemaker, despite it being his licence at risk.

Commitment and loyalty are nothing but distant memories these days. The HGV industry is different as it is rare to find an employer willing to put a driver through their test. Therefore there isn't a big pool of people with 'C' licences, unlike the bus industry where company training schools were established in order to churn out new drivers as fast as possible to replace those leaving. This in turn created a large pool of 'D' category drivers, meaning that whilst most companies have high staff turnover, there is usually someone else willing to replace them.

If there's plenty of bus drivers available to fill vacancies caused through high turnover (which certainly seems to be the case) then, rather strangely, it also suggests that bus driver pay rates aren't as bad as many believe.

Robert

 

[SWTH]

If there's plenty of bus drivers available to fill vacancies caused through high turnover (which certainly seems to be the case) then, rather strangely, it also suggests that bus driver pay rates aren't as bad as many believe.

Robert

It's more a case of hoping the grass is greener on the other side. It rarely is.

Note my last line, usually someone else to replace them. Most bus companies are permenantly recruiting, it's very rare to find a fully staffed company. In larger cities, many of the newer drivers are foreign, in several cases recruited directly by the company from Eastern Europe.

Bus driver wages are crap. End of.

 

[Titfield]

The fact of the matter is, the bus industry does not care about drivers. A driver with a perfectly valid issue (such as a duty that does not comply with the rules) is treated as a 'militant' and a troublemaker, despite it being his licence at risk.

Commitment and loyalty are nothing but distant memories these days. The HGV industry is different as it is rare to find an employer willing to put a driver through their test. Therefore there isn't a big pool of people with 'C' licences, unlike the bus industry where company training schools were established in order to churn out new drivers as fast as possible to replace those leaving. This in turn created a large pool of 'D' category drivers, meaning that whilst most companies have high staff turnover, there is usually someone else willing to replace them.

If the duty does not comply with the rules (I presume you mean Drivers Hours Rules) then send it to the Traffic Commissioner bringing it to his / her attention. Alternatively why not post it on here so it can be looked at and an opinion given.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's more a case of hoping the grass is greener on the other side. It rarely is.

Note my last line, usually someone else to replace them. Most bus companies are permenantly recruiting, it's very rare to find a fully staffed company. In larger cities, many of the newer drivers are foreign, in several cases recruited directly by the company from Eastern Europe.

Bus driver wages are crap. End of.

Do you mean the hourly rate is crap or the gross pay for the week?
Many drivers in my experience work longer hours so that the gross pay is "surviveable" on. (I use the term guardedly not suggesting that this means the pay is acceptable or sufficient)

 

[Surreyman]

Why is it then that HGV drivers can still command high rates of pay - bonuses for working at weekends or overtime ? Maybe there are starter pcv jobs and more senior roles - Megabus for example ?

It varies enormously depending on the company, type of work, size of vehicle.
As one HGV driver put it to me - Roll Cages/Pallets/Parcels don't unload themselves, (even if many trucks have Tail Lifts/Pallet movers, there's a lot of physical effort) but then at least they don't shout/punch/stab/spit at you!

 

[Titfield]

One other point. In most large companies the duties etc are calculated by specialist software e.g. Omnibus. The parameters built into the system should ensure they are legal.

Thus if the duty is illegal then either the company has overridden the software or there is an error in the software (which I would suggest is highly unlikely).