My Idea for swapping Railway Shutdown Days

[Monty]

I'd do it for triple time.

Speaking seriously though for a moment, the nature of the job and difficulty of applying for leave on specific dates (especially if others wish to book off that date) has caused me to miss several important family gatherings. I don't fancy much giving up two dates that I can always guarantee to have off.

That said I can see in the not too distant future some service being provided, but it'll be strictly limited and it'll almost certainly rely on staff volunteering to come into work. The fact many staff are not contracted to work these days is a huge hurdle and I can't see the TOCs being all that enthusiastic about going to the trouble of negotiating with the unions if the pay off is not all that great. It could happen if the DfT insisted, but who knows.

 

[Gemz91]

In general, are the majority of railway staff contracted to work Sundays? Came across many who's Sundays arent part of the working week, so the TOC relies on people doing overtime on Sundays, which is never a problem as there's always people wanting the overtime. If this case is common, they get Christmas Day, Boxing Day and Easter Day off anyway, so with your proposal they'd effectively be losing a day off a year.

 

[Dave1987]

In general, are the majority of railway staff contracted to work Sundays? Came across many who's Sundays arent part of the working week, so the TOC relies on people doing overtime on Sundays, which is never a problem as there's always people wanting the overtime. If this case is common, they get Christmas Day, Boxing Day and Easter Day off anyway, so with your proposal they'd effectively be losing a day off a year.

No Easter Sunday is classed as a normal Sunday and for my TOC if you are booked to work it even if you make yourself unavailable, if no one else wants an extra Sunday you have to work it.

 

[badassunicorn]

Although I don't have any shifts starting on christmas day itself, we have night shifts that finish christmas morning, and nights again that start christmas night.

 

[MyFriendMary]

In general, are the majority of railway staff contracted to work Sundays? Came across many who's Sundays arent part of the working week, so the TOC relies on people doing overtime on Sundays, which is never a problem as there's always people wanting the overtime. If this case is common, they get Christmas Day, Boxing Day and Easter Day off anyway, so with your proposal they'd effectively be losing a day off a year.

We've got a letter stapled to the noticeboard that's as old as the bible that we are not contracted to work any Sunday - that is unless we agree to do it or reject itut at 'short notice' decide otherwise. Recently for my TOC, locally, we have struggled with finding the staffing for Sunday coverage.

But, anyway, with the amount of wine and beer my family typically indulge in over Christmas Eve/Day - I wouldn't be fit to work anyway :P

 

[Dave1987]

I would love for things to stay as they are as it means that all us railway staff can enjoy Christmas Day with our families properly without having to think about staying sober for Boxing Day but realistically it is probably only a matter of time. Easter Sunday would be a reasonable trade off. Or make Boxing Day a voluntary thing and if there aren't enough volunteers the service doesn't run or something along those lines. No compulsory booking on if there aren't enough volunteers which currently happens for bank holidays.

 

[Rapidash]

Considering how jammed the local services have been for the last 4 days, I don't think this ideas a winner! Bloomin' sunshine, encouraging people to go out and about.....

There are, of course, many people who don't have family, or don't have any real feelings for crimbo who may well jump at the chance to work instead of twiddling their fingers at home. Certainly the local curry houses are open over christmas.

 

[dk1]

The absolute minimum we are offered is double time plus extra holiday & that's to come in Boxing Day on night shift to get the service ready for the 27th. Nowhere near enough for me to work a night shift let alone Boxing Day. You do get a few volunteer though.

 

[455driver]

Look I am exactly the same i.e not contracted to Boxing Day or Christmas Day etc but I can see that probably a case of when not if for regular Boxing Day services. What I am suggesting is that we have Easter Sunday as a trade off. I know there are issues with regards to engineering works etc. it was merely an idea for discussion that's all.

There wont be a trade off, it will be 'you are working Boxing day so get used to it'.

I do actually agree about there being some sort of service on Boxing day soon, the sticking points are what sort of service and who pays for it!

 

[Clip]

I would love for things to stay as they are as it means that all us railway staff can enjoy Christmas Day with our families properly without having to think about staying sober for Boxing Day but realistically it is probably only a matter of time. Easter Sunday would be a reasonable trade off. Or make Boxing Day a voluntary thing and if there aren't enough volunteers the service doesn't run or something along those lines. No compulsory booking on if there aren't enough volunteers which currently happens for bank holidays.

But not 'all railway' staff do have both days off. Its a bigger world than drivers and guards out there and some of us even have to be on call through the period even if no trains are running.

 

[Flamingo]

I can't believe that the annual whingefest about Trains not running on Boxing Day has already started. It's only bloody April! And people complain that the shops start Christmas early!

 

[dk1]

I can't believe that the annual whingefest about Trains not running on Boxing Day has already started. It's only bloody April! And people complain that the shops start Christmas early!

Alan Williams will no doubt start banging on about it in his June collumn

 

[Dave1987]

But not 'all railway' staff do have both days off. Its a bigger world than drivers and guards out there and some of us even have to be on call through the period even if no trains are running.

If you are referring to NR staff and contractors working over Christmas and Boxing Day I believe the pay is pretty lucrative for a few days work which probably makes missing Christmas with the family worth it. I doubt all TOC staff would be offered the same kind of pay for working those days.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I can't believe that the annual whingefest about Trains not running on Boxing Day has already started. It's only bloody April! And people complain that the shops start Christmas early!

Wish I'd never started the thread for discussion, seems its impossible to do that on this forum. It wasn't a whinge thread if you read it.

 

[Clip]

If you are referring to NR staff and contractors working over Christmas and Boxing Day I believe the pay is pretty lucrative for a few days work which probably makes missing Christmas with the family worth it. I doubt all TOC staff would be offered the same kind of pay for working those days..

No, not nr staff who do the engineering works as they do get paid handsomely for doing so.

 

[fairysdad]

From a practical point of view, and ignoring the specialities of the days concerned, surely it makes sense that more work can be done in two consecutive days than in two effectively random days at different points in the year?

 

[fowler9]

I can't believe that the annual whingefest about Trains not running on Boxing Day has already started. It's only bloody April! And people complain that the shops start Christmas early!

With all due respect someone similar to yourself may well start moaning if someone similar to myself wasn't working over the various holidays. Your boiler has stopped working, your roof has collapsed, your front door has fallen off. I have to get to work to sort this stuff out, I normally walk. I don't get a choice or a guaranteed day off.

The fact I can walk to work is down to fate, not excellent planning by myself or the company.

 

[313103]

Strangely enough today FGW extended most of the Cardiff services to Swansea, so in effect they ran more services to day on this route then they normally do on a ordinary work day.
Incidently the swanline ran a normal service yet First Cymru and other local bus companies ran no services whatsoever today even on their busy corridors.

 

[fowler9]

Strangely enough today FGW extended most of the Cardiff services to Swansea, so in effect they ran more services to day on this route then they normally do on a ordinary work day.
Incidently the swanline ran a normal service yet First Cymru and other local bus companies ran no services whatsoever today even on their busy corridors.

In Liverpool the bus companies ran a Sunday service, Northern Rail ran from what I could see was a full service. I was grateful even though it wasn't useful to get to my place of work it was handy for going for a pint after my 8 hour shift finished.

 

[Flamingo]

With all due respect someone similar to yourself may well start moaning if someone similar to myself wasn't working over the various holidays. Your boiler has stopped working, your roof has collapsed, your front door has fallen off. I have to get to work to sort this stuff out, I normally walk. I don't get a choice or a guaranteed day off.

The fact I can walk to work is down to fate, not excellent planning by myself or the company.

With due respect, the only holiday I get off is Xmas Day and Boxing Day. I get no extra payments for working the others. If I didn't work my days off most weeks, then someone similar to yourself would be stuck at home every Sunday (so in effect I get one day a week off - how many do you?)

I worked for 22 years in a 24/7 industry, and got told "You can't complain, you knew the job involved working Xmas". I say the same to you now.

I pay to run a car so I can get to work at times like now (3am) when there is no public transport. For two days a year, I would suggest that people who don't can pay for an alternative to the train, or do without.

 

[fowler9]

With due respect, the only holiday I get off is Xmas Day and Boxing Day. I get no extra payments for working the others. If I didn't work my days off most weeks, then someone similar to yourself would be stuck at home every Sunday (so in effect I get one day a week off - how many do you?)

I worked for 22 years in a 24/7 industry, and got told "You can't complain, you knew the job involved working Xmas". I say the same to you now.

I pay to run a car so I can get to work at times like now (3am) when there is no public transport. For two days a year, I would suggest that people who don't can pay for an alternative to the train, or do without.

Fair enough mate.

 

[Flamingo]

Fair enough mate.

Sorry, I'm grumpy on Earlies, any day which contains two 3 o'clocks is not a good one.

 

[Batman]

But Boxing Day isn't a total rail shutdown.

There was still a small number of freight services running on the Sutton Park line on Boxing day last year.

 

[DarloRich]

Both Christmas and Easter are traditionally used for major engineering works. That isnt going to change.

 

[Batman]

But as I said on this forum at Christmas last year, in my view the railways should run a normal evening peak and evening service until the end of service of Christmas Eve (unless rolling stock needs to be in a different location of operational reasons) and there should be a full Sunday service on Boxing Day.

London Midland reduced the frequency of the Cross City line to just 2tph after midday on Christmas Eve last year (I dread to think what the evening peak was like), and the last train to Lichfield was just after 8.30pm with the last train to Four Oaks an hour later. To many people, that level of service reduction is unacceptable.

 

[455driver]

But as I said on this forum at Christmas last year, in my view the railways should run a normal evening peak and evening service until the end of service of Christmas Eve (unless rolling stock needs to be in a different location of operational reasons) and there should be a full Sunday service on Boxing Day.

London Midland reduced the frequency of the Cross City line to just 2tph after midday on Christmas Eve last year (I dread to think what the evening peak was like), and the last train to Lichfield was just after 8.30pm with the last train to Four Oaks an hour later. To many people, that level of service reduction is unacceptable.

When do you propose to do the big engineering jobs that take place over those 56 hours then?
Lets not forget that although major engineering work wont be taking place at the same place each year, it will be taking place somewhere and if these services you would like to run are cancelled because of it then replacement road transport will need to be provided, where are you going to get enough buses and drivers on Boxing day?

I dont believe that there is enough demand yet for any sort of meaningful service to be provided, lots of people going shopping wont provide enough passengers throughout the day, into town in the morning and out in the evening yes, but the rest of the day the trains will just be moving fresh air around.

 

[Batman]

When do you propose to do the big engineering jobs that take place over those 56 hours then?
Lets not forget that although major engineering work wont be taking place at the same place each year, it will be taking place somewhere and if these services you would like to run are cancelled because of it then replacement road transport will need to be provided, where are you going to get enough buses and drivers on Boxing day?

I dont believe that there is enough demand yet for any sort of meaningful service to be provided, lots of people going shopping wont provide enough passengers throughout the day, into town in the morning and out in the evening yes, but the rest of the day the trains will just be moving fresh air around.

You raise a good point, but I think we are starting to move to a point now where shopping traffic alone will justify operating a Sunday service on some lines. There will probably be more people using the trains that day than on an average Sunday. Funding replacement road transport is an inevitable fact of life now in the rail industry when engineering work is involved.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

Don't tell Chiltern with their Boxing Day Bicester service that Boxing Day is meant to be quiet

I actually worked these and what we found was the early services to Bicester and the late ones back again were heavily loaded for the rest of the day we were running 7 carriage trains with virtually nobody on them

In fact the MD commented that Chiltern made no money from this trial as all that happened was people who'd have travelled on the 27th for example travelled on the 26th instead

And short of making drivers redundant and reemploying them on new contracts or offering them a lot of money to remove not having to work the 26th in their contract it isn't going to happen anyway and on the evidence of this commercial companies which privatised trains companies essentially won't want to do it

 

[E16 Cyclist]

Don't tell Chiltern with their Boxing Day Bicester service that Boxing Day is meant to be quiet

I actually worked these and what we found was the early services to Bicester and the late ones back again were heavily loaded for the rest of the day we were running 7 carriage trains with virtually nobody on them

In fact the MD commented that Chiltern made no money from this trial as all that happened was people who'd have travelled on the 27th for example travelled on the 26th instead

And short of making drivers redundant and reemploying them on new contracts or offering them a lot of money to remove not having to work the 26th in their contract it isn't going to happen anyway and on the evidence of this commercial companies which privatised trains companies essentially won't want to do it

 

[dk1]

But as I said on this forum at Christmas last year, in my view the railways should run a normal evening peak and evening service until the end of service of Christmas Eve.

No can do. Everything needs to be back to depot, maintained & into place ready for end of the night shifts which started on the 24th. No staff will be coming on duty at any point on Christmas Day so all needs to be secure by 05.00 at the very very latest. You can be sure that if staff where made to stay right up to their time on Christmas Eve that should anything go wrong they will refuse to do one seconds overtime. As a manager you would be shooting yourself in the foot trying to achieve that one.

 

[Batman]

No can do. Everything needs to be back to depot, maintained & into place ready for end of the night shifts which started on the 24th. No staff will be coming on duty at any point on Christmas Day so all needs to be secure by 05.00 at the very very latest. You can be sure that if staff where made to stay right up to their time on Christmas Eve that should anything go wrong they will refuse to do one seconds overtime. As a manager you would be shooting yourself in the foot trying to achieve that one.

OK, that may not be possible for long distance services which need to do long ECS runs to get back to the depot. But on local lines, surely it shouldn't be too much of a problem. In the West Midlands area, I think almost all units are back at their depots by 1am.