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First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

Private Baxter

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to answer the question about the 37 it seems to interwork with either the 38 or x39 during the day due to the extended running time so it varies whats out on it

Really?!! i am surprised, although that would explain why there's nearly an hour gap between the 37 arriving in Bristol, and leaving again. I wondered if it waited at the bus station for all that time. Makes sense it goes back as a different journey I suppose. When Kelston Road re opens perhaps the service will operate differently...? So far I've only seen 66943 on the service, on the 14.20 departure from Bath both yesterday and today. Only seen streetlights on the 38 as well, but i guess in theory they could appear on 37. Can anyone remember what sort of buses used to appear on 332 when Bath depot ran it before November 2012?

Also does anyone know the PVR for services 265 and 231?
 
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swifty

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R Can anyone remember what sort of buses used to appear on 332 when Bath depot ran it before November 2012?

Well, what ever tat was left in the depot ranging from step Darts to Volvo B7TLs. Back in 2003/4 I remember it was almost solid Lance worked and then during 2005/6 when the 55 plate Eclispe arrived they became common. It was only when the B7s started to transfer away that vehicle quality dropped.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Really?!! i am surprised, although that would explain why there's nearly an hour gap between the 37 arriving in Bristol, and leaving again. I wondered if it waited at the bus station for all that time. Makes sense it goes back as a different journey I suppose. When Kelston Road re opens perhaps the service will operate differently...? So far I've only seen 66943 on the service, on the 14.20 departure from Bath both yesterday and today. Only seen streetlights on the 38 as well, but i guess in theory they could appear on 37. Can anyone remember what sort of buses used to appear on 332 when Bath depot ran it before November 2012?

Also does anyone know the PVR for services 265 and 231?

Think the 265 is 11 whilst 231 is 6.

The 332 was R-BOU Renowns for a period during 2005/6 before the 55 Eclipses took hold. As Swifty highlights, it was after a number were salted away to Plymouth etc that the service SHOULD have been 05 Darts though in truth, you often found a step floor Dart (46247 was a common sight) or even the Pathfinder Lances. For a while, to do with schools, one board was often a B7TL.

Of course, some of us recall Badgerline VRs (native and ex Eastern National) and ex CityLine Olympians as the standard fayre!
 

Private Baxter

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Well personally I believe 37 can justify semi decent vehicles, in this case 55 reg B7s, so hope this becomes the norm. Not that they have many left however (seven out of a once 25 strong fleet!) and they're also good on 231. Add in the 07 reg B7, and that's almost enough to cover both services, leaving six 54 reg and three 59 reg buses for 265, although in reality at least one ends up working on the 18.

With the expected delivery of fifteen new buses for Bath later this year, perhaps that will see upgrades to various services and a lot more consistency. My predictions are that services 178/379 will benefit from them, and maybe 37 and 267.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Well personally I believe 37 can justify semi decent vehicles, in this case 55 reg B7s, so hope this becomes the norm. Not that they have many left however (seven out of a once 25 strong fleet!) and they're also good on 231. Add in the 07 reg B7, and that's almost enough to cover both services, leaving six 54 reg and three 59 reg buses for 265, although in reality at least one ends up working on the 18.

With the expected delivery of fifteen new buses for Bath later this year, perhaps that will see upgrades to various services and a lot more consistency. My predictions are that services 178/379 will benefit from them, and maybe 37 and 267.

My hope was that the 173/376 would get new vehicles and allow 69438-48 to go to the 265 but that's not now going to happen.

The 231 (and the odd 332) were Eclipse operated when the full batch had arrived at Bath. The 231 has really suffered with Eclipses taken away and a right mix of old tat being flung onto it. Last year seemed to be a regular home for 46603 and 46225 - 19 year old Darts making Faresaver seem like the quality operator!!

I think the 178/379 will most likely get new Streetlites. I don't see them on the 267 or 37 sadly - those will most likely still make do with 05 Darts (though I hope I'm wrong).
 

Private Baxter

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My hope was that the 173/376 would get new vehicles and allow 69438-48 to go to the 265 but that's not now going to happen.

The 231 (and the odd 332) were Eclipse operated when the full batch had arrived at Bath. The 231 has really suffered with Eclipses taken away and a right mix of old tat being flung onto it. Last year seemed to be a regular home for 46603 and 46225 - 19 year old Darts making Faresaver seem like the quality operator!!

I think the 178/379 will most likely get new Streetlites. I don't see them on the 267 or 37 sadly - those will most likely still make do with 05 Darts (though I hope I'm wrong).

I thought that had been the case with the 231, although since the 15 has had double deckers allocated they have sort of returned, and now that 265 is largely 54 reg B7s 231 is (or was) once again the dominent service for 55 reg B7s. Wonder what will disappear with the arrival of the new stuff. The optimist in me says it will be the old tat, but I fear it will be more middle aged stuff....

I'm not sure how regular 379 passengers feel about the recent downgrading of their service. Some stuff is OK, but I've seen some right rubbish on there too, including the recently departed R BAEs. Whilst the 05 reg darts are suitable for 178, I don't think they suit 379. I have a feeling that streetlights will somehow be strangely suitable for both. Here's hoping!

The remaining 59 reg Wells eclipses could still end up on 265, though not till next year at the earliest. Doubt Bath will get anything new for that service in the next few years. (Although I think for passengers going all the way to Salsibury, two and a half hours is a long time on a bus with only two windows at the front and tend to get very hot. Bad enough on the 173 sometimes)! Even so, it's good that they're back reguarly on 173 again after a couple of years.

Did you mean 46603? That's a Wells one (and still going?) so unlikey to have on 231 very often. 46225 was a regular though. Luckily darts are quite rare on the service now. B6s are failry common, but in general it is better than it has been.
 

83G/84D

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BMC 68571 which was out of use at Plymouth is now being used as a dedicated driver training bus. It is still yellow but marked up with driver training writing and was at Camborne earlier today.
 

Class 33

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Got the 82 from Cribbs Causeway to Filton Roundabout yesterday. Dissapointly there was an Eclipse on it! But I was the only person on it! So got one of the front seats on the raised rear section, these seats are a little more comfortable than the rest of the seats. Got out at Filton Roundabout and looked at the display, and it was another 14 or 15 minutes for a connecting 309 or 75! But I noticed an 18 to Henbury was due in a couple of minutes, and is now re-routed via Filton Road and Monks Park Avenue not right at the roundabout and down Southmead Road. So got on that one. Bit of a different way to get back home, an 82 and then an 18!

Today I got an 82 again. And to my surprise it was a Marshall Dart! I don't really see what the fuss is on here about these buses. I think they are nice little buses!. Good comfortable seating. Better than an Eclipse or Enviro 200 any day! A welcome addition to First Bristol's bus fleet! Only capacity for just 25 seating though. But if they're used on services which don't get that busy anyway then they're good enough buses. These buses wouldn't be suitable for the 70, but they're probably good enough for the 82. There was one of these on service 5 today as well https://www.flickr.com/photos/24658029@N03/13899870195

And this photo here indicating that one of them was apparantly on the 48 on Monday!! https://www.flickr.com/photos/24658029@N03/13854652424/in/photostream/
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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And to my surprise it was a Marshall Dart! I don't really see what the fuss is on here about these buses. I thought they were a nice little bus. Good comfortable seating. Better than an Eclipse or Enviro 200 any day!

I know it's all subjective but a Marshall bodied Dart being better than an Eclipse.......:p Having experienced Marshall Darts in Bristol and South Wales, I know that they're usually dreadful. You might have had a better one but I've had the hell of travelling from Llanelli to Swansea on one and they're awful.

Eclipses are heavyweight and have much better ride quality. Marshall Darts bounce all over the road. Same goes for the shorter e200s - the longer ones tend to have better ride quality.
 

freetoview33

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It's kind of good the new services were introduced before the hospital opens, lets people see they are about and I'm sure from this time next month they will be a lot busier!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Im on the 18 and the driver is trying to get people who were waiting for the 40 and 501 502 to get on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
At Southmead Hospital and its a total nightmare
 

TheGrandWazoo

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It's kind of good the new services were introduced before the hospital opens, lets people see they are about and I'm sure from this time next month they will be a lot busier!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Im on the 18 and the driver is trying to get people who were waiting for the 40 and 501 502 to get on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
At Southmead Hospital and its a total nightmare

Spent most of the morning working in and around Longwell Green, Keynsham and then up to Abbey Wood.

Particularly around the eastern parts, it's really noticeable how many First buses are buzzing around rather than Rotala (though the re-routing of the 37 and 319 does distort it a little around Keynsham).

X46 didn't look to be doing too much trade round lunchtime though
 

freetoview33

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Southmead is just a nightmare at the moment. The sooner its sorted the better. Currently ambulances won't be able to get into the hospital because its being blocked by the 24!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Did you mean 46603? That's a Wells one (and still going?) so unlikey to have on 231 very often. 46225 was a regular though. Luckily darts are quite rare on the service now. B6s are failry common, but in general it is better than it has been.

Yep, in the days when Bath had control of Wells, whilst the B10BLEs and B7RLEs remained very much allocated to WS, there was much more fluidity in terms of the Darts. About this time last year, saw 46603 working the 231 on a couple of occasions! I can remember seeing 46609 as well on 161 one Saturday and the following Thursday, it was working a late 231.

May well have been that they were in Bath for MOT or other maintenance and were then pressed out onto service?
 

Colly405

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Got the 82 from Cribbs Causeway to Filton Roundabout yesterday. Dissapointly there was an Eclipse on it! But I was the only person on it! So got one of the front seats on the raised rear section, these seats are a little more comfortable than the rest of the seats. Got out at Filton Roundabout and looked at the display, and it was another 14 or 15 minutes for a connecting 309 or 75! But I noticed an 18 to Henbury was due in a couple of minutes, and is now re-routed via Filton Road and Monks Park Avenue not right at the roundabout and down Southmead Road. So got on that one. Bit of a different way to get back home, an 82 and then an 18!

Today I got an 82 again. And to my surprise it was a Marshall Dart! I don't really see what the fuss is on here about these buses. I think they are nice little buses!. Good comfortable seating. Better than an Eclipse or Enviro 200 any day! A welcome addition to First Bristol's bus fleet! Only capacity for just 25 seating though. But if they're used on services which don't get that busy anyway then they're good enough buses. These buses wouldn't be suitable for the 70, but they're probably good enough for the 82.
I took the 82 from Filton to Cribbs and back yesterday.
Had a very rattly Marshall Dart heading to Cribbs, on the 09:34 off Southmead running about 15 late, and the driver made no effort to make up any lost time.
Came back on the other 82 vehicle, which yesterday was one of the native Dart SLF/Pointers. About 10 late, although it lost more time on Southmead Rd; when I saw the next working of that vehicle (the 12:34 off Southmead) it was 20+ late, and seemed to take the new 501/502 route from Southmead Rd to Parkway, getting there roughly on time, but missing out Cribbs...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Southmead is just a nightmare at the moment. The sooner its sorted the better. Currently ambulances won't be able to get into the hospital because its being blocked by the 24!
The temporary fences aren't helping. I've seen 18s loop round the bus stop twice, having had to park up and wait time beyond the stop, then coming back round to use the stop.
It is worth noting that Traveline shows the 24s as NOT calling at the new stop at the main entrance - their terminus is on Monks Park Ave (having come along Filton Rd and down Monks Park Ave). They then come through the hospital, calling at the Dorian Way stop, before going up Dorian Rd. First's timetable booklet shows this route too, and the correct terminus. Having said that, I saw a 24 durign the Monks pk closure coming in Dorian (correct) and going past the new bus stop - not quite sure where it was going to terminate - perhaps at AOC?
Don't forget that A&E (i.e. many ambulances) is nowhere near the main entrance...
 
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freetoview33

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Well from what I saw today, buses terminating have a separate section to wait at, as not to block the bus stop for other buses, and yes the temporary fences are a pain and really there is no need for them plus about 5 security people to man them! But they will be gone once it all opens. And today I saw the 24's coming down Dorian Road (Stopping outside the new main entrance bus stop, to let any passengers off) then going around the new roundabout to go back up Dorian Road to terminate. Although Dorian Road is rather narrow and with the buses stopped there I can see it being very hard for Ambulances to get by to the new A+E dep. Although from what I gather once the development is complete (end of 2015) there will be a lot more room for buses by the main entrance (If they stick to the original plans)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As the full plans are to have two main bus stops outside the entrance and an additional two layover stops outside. (With the current new drop off area replaced by a big new public square) And the roads rerouted so there will be a straight road from Southmead road up to the new entrance (None of this winding road rubbish like we have now) which should make life a lot easier for buses.

If this actually happens or not is anyones guess but it is in the plans and should be completed by the end of 2015.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Big news in Somerset. Webberbus have been removed as operator of Taunton P&R. First BoS are taking over with 9 new Streetlites heading to Taunton.

http://www.somerset.gov.uk/roads-parking-and-transport/public-transport/taunton-flyer-park-and-ride

http://somersetnewsroom.com/2014/04/17/new-operator-for-taunton-park-ride/ http://somersetnewsroom.com/2014/04/17/new-operator-for-taunton-park-ride/

Given how First are turning the screw, having upped the frequencies between Taunton and Wellington, and now Wells and Street, one wonders about Webberbus? P&R would've been a strong regular income to underpin their expansion. Oh, and BoS have slashed their weekly ticket prices
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Whoops, missed Matts post!
 
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smtglasgow

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A question I've been meaning to age for ages....

How are Webberbus and Faresaver doing on the routes where they compete head-on with First? Both seem to adopt the tactic of running just in front of First (I think Faresaver might be more guilty of this), but they've both invested heavily in their fleets and put First to shame in a number of cases. I tend to only see Faresaver (in Bath or Chippenham) and they always seem well loaded, but is this mainly concessionary fares? Is either company actually hurting First, or are the Taunton (and Weston) tender losses a sign that the indies are struggling?
 

ValleyLines142

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Earlier this morning I saw about six or seven Streetlites (think some had fleet numbers 63220 and 63183) heading south on the M5 near junctions 5/6, think they had registrations like SM 14 xxx. Are these heading for Bristol?
 

swifty

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Earlier this morning I saw about six or seven Streetlites (think some had fleet numbers 63220 and 63183) heading south on the M5 near junctions 5/6, think they had registrations like SM 14 xxx. Are these heading for Bristol?

Nope, read the post two above yours ;)

63181-5 (due for Weymouth after they've gone back up north for the Commonwealth Games) and 63219-21/3 are coming down to cover temporarily.
 
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Colly405

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On the subject of the 24, I got a new timetable booklet and it shows the terminus point as being Monks Park Avenue and not Dorian Road.
Traveline also shows it coming down Monks Park, terminating, then turning in to the hospital from Monks Park gate, up to the Dorian gate to exit, without using the new hospital stop. Which is what it did tonight...
 

TheGrandWazoo

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A question I've been meaning to age for ages....

How are Webberbus and Faresaver doing on the routes where they compete head-on with First? Both seem to adopt the tactic of running just in front of First (I think Faresaver might be more guilty of this), but they've both invested heavily in their fleets and put First to shame in a number of cases. I tend to only see Faresaver (in Bath or Chippenham) and they always seem well loaded, but is this mainly concessionary fares? Is either company actually hurting First, or are the Taunton (and Weston) tender losses a sign that the indies are struggling?

Interesting question. First of all, Webberbus and Faresaver employ different strategies.

Faresaver have traditionally bought their buses outright. They operate a lot of Wiltshire Council tendered routes, and schools, and this allows them to then operate competitive routes. In fact, a number are built around school workings - for instance, the X34 Frome to Chippenham only runs Monday to Friday and of the 6 vehicles used on it, only 2 run it in peak.

Their fleet is also quite a bit older with a fair few Varios still going but with newer middle aged kit like the odd e200 and MCV Evolution that they've picked up cheap. The full size DDA kit is probably 2003-2007 in the main. With a lower cost base, they've been quite successful against First and do tend to operate 10 mins in front. Recent, unscientific observations show that on the main routes, they probably have most of the Frome to Trowbridge traffic, about half of Chippenham to Bath, and 40% of the Frome to Bath route, though much is pensioner passes.

Notably, First seemed to tolerate it as long as they didn't compete in Bath, as they did start doing so in Whiteway and Weston. Conversely, when they began a Chippenham to Calne service, Stagecoach immediately retaliated and registered Chippenham town services. Faresaver haven't dared to do that again. First have seemed to let things take their way, almost as managed retreat. However, they did strangely win the Corsham town service tender in Jan - their first Wiltshire win in age. The interworking of the 267 and 234 is due to end; will that allow the 267 to be retimed in front of Faresaver?

Webberbus are different. Fewer tendered services, especially after losing the Weston ones, and now the P&R which seemed to be the real jewel. Instead of buying buses, they've tended to lease new fleets (which must be expensive). Also, they've gone head to head on new services, so none of the Faresaver winning a schools contract and then operating off peak on the back of it.

Again unscientific, they've done reasonably well on the Minehead to Taunton service. Wellington was doing ok but First have put the squeeze on now and the Bridgwater service was again doing ok. It was the big expansion on the 37/38 Taunton/Bridgwater to Wells which is most intriguing. A lot of leased kit, and often only running with half a dozen pensioners, at least from Wells to Street. Bridgwater service never seems to carry much but occasionally get a few on the Taunton route. The other big move was Bridgwater town services; don't know how they're doing as it's been a while since I've been into the town.

However, one wonders how much of a blow getting the P&R will be to Webberbus. That's 7 vehicles (I believe) on lease that will cost to return or then look to redeploy.... That said, they have recently received new vehicles so perhaps they're ok financially. However, the fact that (for a second time) they've had work taken off them for p*ss poor service is a bit concerning. One thing is certain - with BoS getting Taunton P&R (even in the interim) and the recent changes in South Glos, First are definitely embarking on a strategy to reverse their decline in market share.
 
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THarris123

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I'm not sure how regular 379 passengers feel about the recent downgrading of their service. Some stuff is OK, but I've seen some right rubbish on there too, including the recently departed R BAEs. Whilst the 05 reg darts are suitable for 178, I don't think they suit 379. I have a feeling that streetlights will somehow be strangely suitable for both. Here's hoping!

In reply to the above quote dated 16/04/14 13:40 (sorry about the lateness of the reply - I'm new and only just noticed this), the 379 passengers (myself being one of the most regular passengers) don't like the latest rubbish. Much of the demand from passengers travelling between Bristol and Whitchurch has declined on 379 and more people are getting on the 376 (although the overall demand between Bath and Bristol on 379 has increased). The Eclipses seemed to have made quite an impact on our local services - I'm quite surprised.

I've read your messages about the new Streetlites arriving and even though I'm not too keen on the Streetlites, they're a hell of a lot better than the 05 Darts - not to mention all the other one-off piles of crap floating around in Bath (46259 being one of them). It'll be interesting to see what buses we do end up with over the next year.

On another subject, does anyone know what's happening to the Eclipses on Wells depot (and the buses at Wells depot overall)? I only ask because 69438 (one of the eclipses) has a notice of bus service changes (from 13/04) for Weston Super Mare. Is 69438 moving across? All the other Eclipses have the notices from February still. I am rather attached to these Eclipses and it would be sad to see them go - I've only been using the 376/379 for 3-4 years ish and have sort of grown up with them really - it's sad to say that I can even tell differences between the 11 left in Wells (not all of them, but the majority).
 

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