-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Reservations
- Thread starter SN319
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
causton
Established Member
I think reservations should still exist, but you should have to ask for them. When you book an Advance ticket you should get a reservation for that train, but no specific seat, and you should have to specifically select if you want an actual seat reservation...
There should be a fee for reservations, which could be waived for those who buy an Anytime ticket.
Advance tickets should not come with a specific seat reservation. Off peak tickets should require the purchaser to select if they wish to pay for a seat reservation on a particular service.
Advance tickets should not come with a specific seat reservation. Off peak tickets should require the purchaser to select if they wish to pay for a seat reservation on a particular service.
Reservations should exist but should be linked on the booking system to a specific ticket number and any reservations on that day on that ticket on that route over 1 should be charged. This would stop the whole business of commuters reserving seats and 5 different trains that they sometimes get depending on when they get out the office. Which I think is the main reason for reserved seats been empty
It isn't just commuters. I know of leisure travellers who get seat reservations for trains they have no intention of catching. They think because the bookign system offers one defualt they need to get one. Also, though less common, I know of some people who but two or three of the cheapest Advance tickets to cover a spread of times when they ar eunsure of when they will be returning. This works out to be cheaper than a flexble ticket, and they know that they won't be using every service they have a ticket for, which just means empty seats (and fewer tickets from that quota for everyone else!)
I don't think you can necessarily blame commuters for this as reservations aren't available on most commuter trains. I've often had reservations on trains which I haven't used because:
- Sometimes there's a 'better' unreserved seat available.
- I've caught an earlier or later train than planned using a 'flexible' ticket.
- I've occasionally purchased more than one very cheap advance ticket at a later time for the same journey as insurance in case I needed to get a later train, as it was far cheaper than an off-peak return.
We need to be careful we don't go down the TVG route of compulsory reservations as this would ultimately give passengers far less flexibility.
- Sometimes there's a 'better' unreserved seat available.
- I've caught an earlier or later train than planned using a 'flexible' ticket.
- I've occasionally purchased more than one very cheap advance ticket at a later time for the same journey as insurance in case I needed to get a later train, as it was far cheaper than an off-peak return.
We need to be careful we don't go down the TVG route of compulsory reservations as this would ultimately give passengers far less flexibility.
ValleyLines142
Established Member
I think they should exist, particularly on long-distance journeys such as London to Manchester or London to Glasgow, as the potential thought of not having a seat for such a long journey is quite worrying.
However, I do find it incredibly selfish when people reverse seats on trains, only for them not to be on that specific train! I caught the 1025 Cardiff to London this morning and had to walk from Coach B to Coach D to find a free seat (and even then the seat I found was reserved from Bristol to London!). However, not that many people got on at Cardiff or Newport, so it is irritating.
However, I do find it incredibly selfish when people reverse seats on trains, only for them not to be on that specific train! I caught the 1025 Cardiff to London this morning and had to walk from Coach B to Coach D to find a free seat (and even then the seat I found was reserved from Bristol to London!). However, not that many people got on at Cardiff or Newport, so it is irritating.
Hellfire
Member
- Joined
- 14 Dec 2012
- Messages
- 573
Of course TOCs should allow reservations, certainly on long distance trains. I travel regularly between Preston and Euston and want to ensure I get a seat.
Unoccupied reserved seats happen for a number of reasons. A last minute change in my work timetable sometimes means I come home n a different train from the one I booked. In that case I sit in an unreserved seat. Unfortunately there does not seem to be any mechanism for alerting the TOC when this happens and releasing my reserved seat.
Not sure what the solution is.
Unoccupied reserved seats happen for a number of reasons. A last minute change in my work timetable sometimes means I come home n a different train from the one I booked. In that case I sit in an unreserved seat. Unfortunately there does not seem to be any mechanism for alerting the TOC when this happens and releasing my reserved seat.
Not sure what the solution is.
The Advanced ticket is effectively a bargain between the TOC and passenger: the passenger gets a discounted ticket, and the TOC gets to fill seats that may otherwise have gone empty. In accepting the inflexibility that comes with the ticket (no changes, no refunds, etc.) the passenger should at the very least expect to get a seat. Without seat reservations, how is that possible to achieve? At least with an off-peak ticket, if the train I want to get is full (in theory at least) I have the option of changing to another service.
ATW have got it right with their policy of assigning a place on a particular service, but not a specific seat, when Advance tickets are bought online. LM and Southern also do this.
In the unlikely event, (even on ATW) that a service is so full that someone is physically unable to board, they can get their ticket endorsed as such by a member of staff, and therefore travel on the next service.
I don't think a passenger has any more right to a seat because they have accepted ticket restrictions in return for a (usually) much cheaper fare.
Respectfully, I disagree. Without an inclusive seat reservation, an Advanced ticket is saying to the passenger/customer: "You must travel on the booked train, even if you have to stand all the way. We don't care about you, we just want your money."
How full is too full though? If, for example, the train was slightly crowded such that there were no seats available and I wasn't able to stand for medical reasons would I have to carry a doctor's note to show the train staff in order to get my ticket endorsed? Or does the fact that I'm unable to stand mean that I have to purchase a more expensive ticket in order to be able to reserve a seat?
You are perfectly free to disagree! Having to stand all of the way would be in line with what many season ticket and full fare ticket holders experience regularly, if not every time they travel. Many such customers think that the attitude you mention is exactly right, that the TOC just wants their money.
It's also definitely compatible with the NRCoC, which states that having a ticket does not guarantee a seat.
Yet, with Advance (not Advanced to be a bit pedantic!) tickets, the people who choose to pay the cheapest prices are guaranteed a seat!
Alternatively, as I have suggested in another thread, it could be made compulsory to have a reservation on all reservable services and standing would not be permitted. Naturally, there would be a lot of losers if such a policy were introduced, but until then we have to come up with a system that is fair, and one that works.
We are getting a bit into the realms of hypothetical situations that are faced, in reality, every day on non reservable services, even by those who hold Advance tickets (Mrs Greenback has one for next week, coincidentally).
What happens on ATW, though, is that train crew and platform staff will ask for volunteers to catch the next service if the train is full to bursting. They point out that the next service will have more coaches and more room, and are happy to validate tickets for anyone who is happy to travel a few minutes later for whatever reason.
This approach works well at Cardiff where there are alternative options for passengers for Bridgend to Swansea, but not for those travelling west of the latter. It's normally once all of the seats are full, and announcements have been made that bags need to be moved off seats, that passengers are informed of alternative services.
In answer to your direct question about being unable to stand there would be an option to book assistance, including a reserved seat as now, or the passenger could do what happens now on many trains and rely on the goodwill of other passengers if they require a seat due to age, illness or disability.
No, it's not perfect, but it's no worse than what we have on many routes anyway.
Having been in standing room only situations several times (usually on the WCML south of Carlisle) I've heard the complaints and sympathise with guards who have to explain that particular detail.
Argh, consider me suitably chastised for making such a silly mistake!
Yes, it would at least be consistent and fair...
...which is a test that this method fails. It's fair enough to the punters (and full marks to ATW for thinking of them), but it's difficult to consistently apply across all services and all TOCs. Because it depends on the guard making the decision that the service has reached 'full enough' and choosing to inform customers and I'm also guessing that will only work where there are following services operated by the same TOC.
As long as there is no attempt to charge for assistance/seat then we're on the same page.
Perfection, sadly, is probably impossible to achieve. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try though.
Yes, it's difficult and would not work in quite the same way at other locations across the network.
Actually, in Cardiff Central passengers are usually diverted to the FGW service which runs 10-15 mins later (if it's on time!) caling at Bridgend, Port Talbot, Neath and Swansea. Those who choose to alight from a very busy service, will usually (I am guessing here) not have Advance tickets, but will have off peak day returns from the above mentioned stations. They are quite happy to sacrifice a bit of time in return for a more comfortable journey!
In fact, it is these types of passenger who would be most disadvantaged by compulsory reservations. Those leisure passengers visiting a city to see friends, go shopping, or just have a day out, usually don't know when exactly they will be coming back, and have no wish to reserve a seat. They may be OK to stand for half an hour or so, what they want is the freedom to decide roughly when to come back without the hassle of having to reserve a seat for the privilege.
Indeed, we need to try and the best solution that we can, and there are problems with quite a few aspects of the current situation, as revealed by this and other threads on the subject!
I do think that not issuing specific seat reservations across all TOC's is worth further consideration.
- Status