Leeds booking office - time for a remodelling ?

[yorksrob]

Over the past couple of years, it has dawned on me that the current lay out of the booking office at Leeds City station isn't really optimal.

For starters, the travel centre is in a separate room - fine when it used to be open all the time, but with shortened opening hours, there's now a situation where for large parts of the day, you can't buy advanced purchase tickets at one of the biggest stations in the country.

Secondly, the ticket office for immediate travel faces onto a narrow walk way and there consequently isn't room for a sensible queuing system (each window has it's own queue, so if you get stuck behind someone with a complicated query you're stuffed).

Isn't it time that NR knocked through the building to create one large travel centre with tickets for today and advanced purchase in the same place (albeit with different windows) for maximum flexibility ? There would also be room for two sensible queuing systems where passengers are called to the next available window, as happens at York for example.

Just a suggestion NR.

 

[BantamMenace]

Should be done alongside the tearing down of the 10 or so storey monstrosity above it. Scaled down 'north shard' as a replacement anyone?

Not sure it'd be possible until the south entrance is complete.

A simple new entrance further up platform 8 would come in useful also if situated alongside the lesser used eastern bridge

 

[yorksrob]

A simple new entrance further up platform 8 would come in useful also if situated alongside the lesser used eastern bridge

I seem to recall being let out there during the rush hour before the dreaded barriers came in.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I always used to love the booking office at Birmingham New St pre-refurb as the lack of queueing system sometimes made people fail to notice the window open to the extreme left, so you could get served in about 20 seconds at one of the busiest stations in the country if you knew to look for it. Sadly those days are long gone and Leeds is too compact for this to happen!

I've only ever bought a ticket once or twice at Leeds, but it's been a pain either time for the reasons you list. I would like to see trialled (and perhaps at other large stations too) a system where any form of complex ticketing matter, even if for immediate travel, is directed to the Travel Centre alongside any other future journey plans, with the booking office merely doing bog standard, quick as you like tickets (or doing all of them out of hours) - the only trouble is is that that system could be quite complex, and how would you define the divide between a run of the mill and complex ticketing query?

 

[yorksrob]

I always used to love the booking office at Birmingham New St pre-refurb as the lack of queueing system sometimes made people fail to notice the window open to the extreme left, so you could get served in about 20 seconds at one of the busiest stations in the country if you knew to look for it. Sadly those days are long gone and Leeds is too compact for this to happen!

I've only ever bought a ticket once or twice at Leeds, but it's been a pain either time for the reasons you list. I would like to see trialled (and perhaps at other large stations too) a system where any form of complex ticketing matter, even if for immediate travel, is directed to the Travel Centre alongside any other future journey plans, with the booking office merely doing bog standard, quick as you like tickets (or doing all of them out of hours) - the only trouble is is that that system could be quite complex, and how would you define the divide between a run of the mill and complex ticketing query?

Indeed. Sometimes it can be a relatively simple ticket, but if the vendor is unfamiliar with it, it may take a while for them to find it.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I seem to recall being let out there during the rush hour before the dreaded barriers came in.

The gate used to be open in the morning peak for exit only, but they stopped doing that when the barriers arrived.

Progress, eh?

The ticket office needs to be in the travel centre, to prevent the queues obstructing the whole of the concourse there. A decent queuing system wouldn't go amiss either.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Should be done alongside the tearing down of the 10 or so storey monstrosity above it. Scaled down 'north shard' as a replacement anyone?

Not sure it'd be possible until the south entrance is complete.

A simple new entrance further up platform 8 would come in useful also if situated alongside the lesser used eastern bridge

This, a thousand times. One of the big problems with Leeds is the way the access to the barriers and platforms is so narrow. The (1960s) concourse immediately on the 'unpaid' side of the barrier line is awfully dingy no matter what time of day it is, and I remember how crowded it used to get before the 1930s concourse was restored (it never closed, but was empty for most of the 1990s!). Problem is, it's the only access to the platforms so if was going to be replaced it'd cause around 18 months of chaos.

 

[BantamMenace]

This, a thousand times. One of the big problems with Leeds is the way the access to the barriers and platforms is so narrow. The (1960s) concourse immediately on the 'unpaid' side of the barrier line is awfully dingy no matter what time of day it is, and I remember how crowded it used to get before the 1930s concourse was restored (it never closed, but was empty for most of the 1990s!). Problem is, it's the only access to the platforms so if was going to be replaced it'd cause around 18 months of chaos.

Hence why I thought it not possible until after the southern entrance complete.

A huge upgrade to the entrance to Leeds has to be due soon and surely could be made profitable with a large shard or new street development above it in place of that monstrous, unused to the best of my knowledge, office block

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think Ernest Marples knew exactly what he was doing when he buried so many of our major stations underneath those horrible carbuncles, trying to make travel by rail as unappealing as possible! :roll:

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Indeed. Sometimes it can be a relatively simple ticket, but if the vendor is unfamiliar with it, it may take a while for them to find it.

Also depends on what the passenger thinks is simple, in the past I have had things like a 'complicated' request for reservations only from Dundee to Edinburgh and Edinburgh to Peterborough (on connecting trains) for two people and a 'simple' request for a ticket from my station to "Scotland" for "sometime next month".

There is, of course, the small matter of impartial points of sale to consider as well.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think Ernest Marples knew exactly what he was doing when he buried so many of our major stations underneath those horrible carbuncles, trying to make travel by rail as unappealing as possible! :roll:

I think the brown paper envelopes posted to politicians by the architect John Poulson had more to do with it.

 

[yorksrob]

Also depends on what the passenger thinks is simple, in the past I have had things like a 'complicated' request for reservations only from Dundee to Edinburgh and Edinburgh to Peterborough (on connecting trains) for two people and a 'simple' request for a ticket from my station to "Scotland" for "sometime next month".

There is, of course, the small matter of impartial points of sale to consider as well.

Either way, it's still better not to be stuck behind them when other windows may become available.

 

[Oswyntail]

....
A huge upgrade to the entrance to Leeds has to be due soon and surely could be made profitable with a large shard or new street development above it in place of that monstrous, unused to the best of my knowledge, office block

Do you mean the office block to the south of the entrance, or the popular and listed Queens Hotel that is over the travel centre and ticket office.
The last thing Leeds needs is another massive retail development that will sit empty. There is a reason why the more ambitious plans have been shelved in recent years.
I agree that the entrance is tatty, and very badly designed. It would lighten things up to take out the "Paperchase" island and associated 70's stuff, and also open up the platform side by removing the "Upper Crust" block. I seem to remember that was planned at some stage. Remove the two bottlenecks and get people flowing through

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Do you mean the office block to the south of the entrance, or the popular and listed Queens Hotel that is over the travel centre and ticket office.
The last thing Leeds needs is another massive retail development that will sit empty. There is a reason why the more ambitious plans have been shelved in recent years.
I agree that the entrance is tatty, and very badly designed. It would lighten things up to take out the "Paperchase" island and associated 70's stuff, and also open up the platform side by removing the "Upper Crust" block. I seem to remember that was planned at some stage. Remove the two bottlenecks and get people flowing through

I had assumed he meant the 1960s office block that sits on top of the 'main' concourse (the one where Burger King/M&S Food is). So many of our major stations have these horrible (and out-dated) blocks on top which seem to serve no purpose other than to block natural light from reaching the station.

Ideally, Leeds needs to (a) get the South entrance built and open; (b) create a 'temporary' access to the platforms from the North side into the 1930s concourse so that the 1960s building and the concourse below can be demolished. Then, rather than funnelling almost every passenger through the narrow aperture behind the gateline as at present, on the footprint of the demolished building, build a 'new' concourse with retail space, that integrates with the 1930s one more smoothly than at present, with the gateline occupying the whole of the wall behind platforms 1-5 (or 0-5, if the plans to add another platform come off). This new concourse should have a mezzanine level with eateries much like that at Manchester Piccadilly, and a glass roof to allow as much natural light into the station as possible. A new integrated ticket office and travel centre either where the present Travel Centre is, or in one of the larger retail units on the ground floor of the 'new' concourse.

Finally, once the planned electrification is done, give the station roof a good clean!

 

[Oswyntail]

I had assumed he meant the 1960s office block that sits on top of the 'main' concourse (the one where Burger King/M&S Food is). ...

TBH, I cannot bring to mind what sits on top of Burger King, and where the Queen's Hotel ends. But I think we are in general agreement. The trouble is, I doubt the South entrance is actually going to make that much difference to the rush hour, and would not do as an alternative while the main entrance is refurbished. I suspect more relief would be gained by having an extension to the footbridge, and a peak-hours only entrance to the car park/Wellington Street.

Finally, once the planned electrification is done, give the station roof a good clean!

Absolutely. The place is a cathedral of grime:roll:

 

[61653 HTAFC]

TBH, I cannot bring to mind what sits on top of Burger King, and where the Queen's Hotel ends. But I think we are in general agreement. The trouble is, I doubt the South entrance is actually going to make that much difference to the rush hour, and would not do as an alternative while the main entrance is refurbished. I suspect more relief would be gained by having an extension to the footbridge, and a peak-hours only entrance to the car park/Wellington Street.
Absolutely. The place is a cathedral of grime:roll:

The South entrance is not really going to be much use outside of the peaks- anyone who wants the shops would be crazy to choose to leave that way unless they need the exercise! Hence my suggestion of creating a temporary entrance on the 'city' side- though where you'd put it is another matter altogether!
In my previous post I suggested a mezzanine floor for the 'new' concourse, so perhaps a second barrier line could be placed up there- with the footbridge being extended to meet it. It's a shame the existing concourse wasn't completely rebuilt during the 'Leeds 1st' upgrade rather than just having new seats and screens fitted. This is probably one of the big reasons that Leeds lags behind places like Manchester Piccadilly whenever a 'Best Station' thread comes up on here.

 

[Searle]

There's a new entrance being built on the south side of the station (over the river), and I would assume this has space for a new ticket office, as it's gonna be a large building!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There's a new entrance being built on the south side of the station (over the river), and I would assume this has space for a new ticket office, as it's gonna be a large building!

Yeah, as far as I know there will be a ticket office in there (there'd better be, as it will be barriered!) but I doubt it'll do much to relieve the problems in the OP, as outside of the peaks everyone will still want to enter/exit on the North (city centre) side.

 

[yorksrob]

Personally I'm not bothered about the aesthetics of the station (I actually quite like the 1960's concourse) and I'm happy with the choice of eateries etc available. It's purely the practicalities of the booking office/travel centre that strike me as an issue.

 

[BantamMenace]

I'd open it all up so round from everything to the right of the toilet entrance in the concourse to the cash machines was a huge ticket barrier. Eliminating wh smith to open up access onto P8 eliminating upper crust for better acces to P1-P6.

In middle of this new huge open concourse add an all singing all dancing ticket office. Ticket machines around the outside.

Add a second storey to the concourse alla ManPic complete with dine-in eateries.

Relocate the first class lounge to somewhere nearer the platforms.

Glass roof and ample lighting.


I'll give a sketch a go at a more reasonable hour

 

[ess]

Does Leeds still have that black rubber floor in the 60s concourse?

 

[yorksrob]

No, currently good old sectorised BR era terrazzo flooring.

 

[Oswyntail]

No, currently good old sectorised BR era terrazzo flooring.

Which is like a skating rink when wet

 

[yorksrob]

Which is like a skating rink when wet

That's just because the door mats aren't big enough.

 

[ASharpe]

I think the East Coast ticket office needs to be a bit more visible, although I have often gone in there when the northern one had big queues and been served immediately.

And can someone tell me if the small bank of Northern can do something the numerous East Coast ones can't. I've often seen large queues for them while the EC machines are virtually all free.

I'd also like to see the ticket barriers manned all the time. I've nearly missed trains before because they have all be left locked and unmanned while I have a Metro card.

 

[bewildered]

There's a lot planned to happen at Leeds train station to alter the southern concourse. Firstly Bruntwood are look to reclad city house over the station so that it's wholly glass. This will really change that building from its 60s concrete monstrosity

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/news_2805.jpg

By all accounts this will be tied in with a remodel of the southern concourse and ticket hall. Plans I've seen would include placing a mezzanine in the southern concourse for starters. Burger King and the newsagent and card shop will be removed to Crete a wider entrance. Upper crust near the barriers will also go to allow the barrier area to be widened. Also Millie's cookies will be removed and the existing ticket off removed to reveal more of the old northern concourse and to remove the bottle neck near the ticket office.

There's also been plans to make new station street pedestrianised and routing the buses and taxis elsewhere. A new entrance to the station maybe placed further along new station street in that event near to where the footbridge is next to the BTP station. These are just suggestions though at present and do not fall into the plans proposed for the main work on the southern concourse

 

[yorksrob]

There's a lot planned to happen at Leeds train station to alter the southern concourse. Firstly Bruntwood are look to reclad city house over the station so that it's wholly glass. This will really change that building from its 60s concrete monstrosity

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/news_2805.jpg

By all accounts this will be tied in with a remodel of the southern concourse and ticket hall. Plans I've seen would include placing a mezzanine in the southern concourse for starters. Burger King and the newsagent and card shop will be removed to Crete a wider entrance. Upper crust near the barriers will also go to allow the barrier area to be widened. Also Millie's cookies will be removed and the existing ticket off removed to reveal more of the old northern concourse and to remove the bottle neck near the ticket office.

There's also been plans to make new station street pedestrianised and routing the buses and taxis elsewhere. A new entrance to the station maybe placed further along new station street in that event near to where the footbridge is next to the BTP station. These are just suggestions though at present and do not fall into the plans proposed for the main work on the southern concourse

That's interesting. I'm surprised the Southern Concourse is tall enough for a mezzanine !

 

[Deerfold]

I think the East Coast ticket office needs to be a bit more visible, although I have often gone in there when the northern one had big queues and been served immediately.

Do you mean the travel centre? It's badly signed but usually quieter (and unfortuntely this is probabaly why they recently restricted its hours of opening).

And can someone tell me if the small bank of Northern can do something the numerous East Coast ones can't. I've often seen large queues for them while the EC machines are virtually all free.

The Northern machines take cash whilst the EC ones are card only. Although the Northern ones don't take anything bigger than a tenner.

I'd also like to see the ticket barriers manned all the time. I've nearly missed trains before because they have all be left locked and unmanned while I have a Metro card.

When they're unmanned (apart from overnight) there's usually one which will open when you approach it. Not obvious which one though...

 

[ASharpe]

Do you mean the travel centre? It's badly signed but usually quieter (and unfortuntely this is probabaly why they recently restricted its hours of opening).

Is that the one by the bus stops or by the first class lounge?

When they're unmanned (apart from overnight) there's usually one which will open when you approach it. Not obvious which one though...

I've found the one near the information desk is usually left open, but not always. Will it automatically open if I just walk up to it?

 

[Deerfold]

Is that the one by the bus stops or by the first class lounge?

By the Bus Stops. Although I've been helped with tickets that failed to print properly by EC staff I'm not aware of them selling tickets from the office by the first class lounge.

I've found the one near the information desk is usually left open, but not always. Will it automatically open if I just walk up to it?

I think so.