New poster on ticket

[VauxhallandI]

I noticed at Cheshunt today that there was a new poster up talking about the gateline now swallowing single and day return tickets.

A clamp down on the number of used tickets?

 

[BestWestern]

Surely the gateline should have been swallowing used tickets from day one?!

 

[Merseysider]

But does this mean the gateline is now programmed to swallow any single/day return tickets irrespective of whether the journey is merely being broken, rather than ended at Cheshunt?

 

[2R84]

Surely the gateline should have been swallowing used tickets from day one?!

The 'new' gateline at waterloo east does not appear to swallow tickets.

The southeastern gateline at St Pancras appears to have been reprogrammed to not swallow tickets.

I was happy about this and thought it was a gradual change to (Southeastern at least) barriers not unnecessarily swallowing tickets (I like to collect), however the new gateline extension at charing cross does swallow.

 

[Haywain]

The 'new' gateline at waterloo east does not appear to swallow tickets.

The southeastern gateline at St Pancras appears to have been reprogrammed to not swallow tickets.

I was happy about this and thought it was a gradual change to (Southeastern at least) barriers not unnecessarily swallowing tickets (I like to collect), however the new gateline extension at charing cross does swallow.

Barriers will not be programmed to retain tickets where there is a decent chance of the tickets being valid for some onward travel, as with tickets to London Terminals at Waterloo East which would be valid for onward travel to Charing Cross. At Charing Cross however there is no likelihood of this that I can think of.

 

[jon0844]

I noticed at Cheshunt today that there was a new poster up talking about the gateline now swallowing single and day return tickets.

A clamp down on the number of used tickets?

That poster has been there ages, but it's not necessarily in a place you'd notice when returning to the station when it's busy. Maybe they moved it? (It was on the wall behind the wide access gate if you're looking in from the platform (2/3, or 12b or whatever it might be when the displays are cocked up as they always seem to be when I go there).

I am not sure why it's taken so long, and while receipts are arguably poorly designed, that's what people need if they wish to make an expenses claim. I can't imagine there being any need to keep a ticket. If you had Plus Bus, that would be a separate ticket anyway.

But, for most people, it's far more sensible to use Oyster from there now anyway? Anyone travelling off-peak should definitely use it, assuming you're heading London bound.

 

[bangor-toad]

Hi there,

I am not sure why it's taken so long, and while receipts are arguably poorly designed, that's what people need if they wish to make an expenses claim. I can't imagine there being any need to keep a ticket.

My current employer requires the actual ticket. There is a requirement for them to be able to show the actual stations travelled between, the fare paid and (importantly) that it was not in 1st class.

This is an approach that I have needed to do for many differing groups including UK government departments and for any EU funded project. No ticket showing exactly what the journey was - no expenses paid.

But, for most people, it's far more sensible to use Oyster from there now anyway? Anyone travelling off-peak should definitely use it, assuming you're heading London bound.

Again, I need to produce an actual ticket to claim expenses. If I use my Oyster card then I can't produce a specific ticket to claim. If I need to travel in London I will just buy a paper travelcard as it can be included in the expenses paperwork and it's accepted that it is an appropriate way to travel in London. My Oyster card has had about £3 on it for many years now as I just don't use it.


I think that this is a situation many public sector workers are in. It'll be fascinating to see when the entire ticketing goes over to smartcards and the entire EU claims rules require paper based evidence of the actual journey rather than an online journey log printed out...

Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[jon0844]

I do think it's up to the employer to change what it needs, as the future is going to be smartcards and electronic receipts/statements/histories.

The fact is, a ticket doesn't belong to you and can be taken from you - so it's not good that you're forced to give the original ticket in to be paid. Of course, I'm not saying you (or many others) are in a position to change that.

However, the fault doesn't appear to be with the railway on this one.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

My mother's employer requires the ticket AND the receipt for exactly the same reason as Bangor-toad describes. I like to save all my tickets anyway because I'm weird.

There was a bit of a thread on this which I posted not too long ago.

 

[VauxhallandI]

That poster has been there ages, but it's not necessarily in a place you'd notice when returning to the station when it's busy. Maybe they moved it? (It was on the wall behind the wide access gate if you're looking in from the platform (2/3, or 12b or whatever it might be when the displays are cocked up as they always seem to be when I go there).

I am not sure why it's taken so long, and while receipts are arguably poorly designed, that's what people need if they wish to make an expenses claim. I can't imagine there being any need to keep a ticket. If you had Plus Bus, that would be a separate ticket anyway.

But, for most people, it's far more sensible to use Oyster from there now anyway? Anyone travelling off-peak should definitely use it, assuming you're heading London bound.

Yes it is directly behind the wide access gate as you enter from the platform. Maybe I just hadn't noticed it before (which is another can of worms for the "there is a poster you must have seen it debate"!), it caught my eye the other day as the background is a strange grey.

I have season so can't comment on the detail.

I am unsure if our company insist on the actual ticket, I will ask in due course and revert.

As the travel buyer maybe I should know....or better advise my accounts colleagues on what is possible.

 

[dvboy]

Again, I need to produce an actual ticket to claim expenses. If I use my Oyster card then I can't produce a specific ticket to claim. If I need to travel in London I will just buy a paper travelcard as it can be included in the expenses paperwork and it's accepted that it is an appropriate way to travel in London. My Oyster card has had about £3 on it for many years now as I just don't use it.


I think that this is a situation many public sector workers are in. It'll be fascinating to see when the entire ticketing goes over to smartcards and the entire EU claims rules require paper based evidence of the actual journey rather than an online journey log printed out...

Cheers,
Mr Toad

Oyster can email you monthly a PDF of usage including costs paid. Keep a seperate Oyster for business journeys?

 

[VauxhallandI]

Oyster can email you monthly a PDF of usage including costs paid. Keep a seperate Oyster for business journeys?

Sometime ago Oyster stopped the ability to get corporate Oyster cards with auto top ups from business credit cards....progressive

 

[jon0844]

I hate to say it. In fact I really don't want to say it, but doesn't Thetrainline.com (argggh) offer businesses a ticket sales service that can then provide all the necessary data. Might actually be worth using them (cough) for this instead of having to try and keep the ticket, plus actually put in an expenses claim - and then fill in the paperwork for HMRC to prevent being taxed as a benefit etc.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It is great saying employers should change what they ask for regarding expenses or use a different ticket retailer, but back there in the real world the fact remains that if an employer is asking for a ticket then that is what they want, and nothing else will be enough.

 

[SussexMan]

I hate to say it. In fact I really don't want to say it, but doesn't Thetrainline.com (argggh) offer businesses a ticket sales service that can then provide all the necessary data. Might actually be worth using them (cough) for this instead of having to try and keep the ticket, plus actually put in an expenses claim - and then fill in the paperwork for HMRC to prevent being taxed as a benefit etc.

Others are available if you don't want to use The Trainline. However, they will all make their money somewhere.

 

[jon0844]

It is great saying employers should change what they ask for regarding expenses or use a different ticket retailer, but back there in the real world the fact remains that if an employer is asking for a ticket then that is what they want, and nothing else will be enough.

What was wrong with what I said? I implicitly pointed out that I knew staff couldn't change what they had to do, but I still believe those companies do need to change what they expect from their staff, given a ticket can be taken by rail staff at any time.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[MikeWh]

Barriers will not be programmed to retain tickets where there is a decent chance of the tickets being valid for some onward travel, as with tickets to London Terminals at Waterloo East which would be valid for onward travel to Charing Cross. At Charing Cross however there is no likelihood of this that I can think of.

Actually the main reason that Waterloo East returns tickets is because they are valid through Waterloo mainline. Tickets from Kent are valid to/from Vauxhall while SWT ones are valid to/from Charing Cross, London Bridge, Cannon Street etc.

 

[robbob700]

Hi there,
My current employer requires the actual ticket. There is a requirement for them to be able to show the actual stations travelled between, the fare paid and (importantly) that it was not in 1st class.

This is an approach that I have needed to do for many differing groups including UK government departments and for any EU funded project. No ticket showing exactly what the journey was - no expenses paid.

What happens with planes? These have been ticketless for years, but the payment confirmation includes all these details. Is the payment confirmation from a web train booking not acceptable as it too includes all those details? (I have certainly used these at previous employers with no problems)

 

[Haywain]

Actually the main reason that Waterloo East returns tickets is because they are valid through Waterloo mainline. Tickets from Kent are valid to/from Vauxhall while SWT ones are valid to/from Charing Cross, London Bridge, Cannon Street etc.

I knew about Vauxhall, but thought that Charing Cross was easier to explain!

 

[Tetchytyke]

In fact I really don't want to say it, but doesn't Thetrainline.com (argggh) offer businesses a ticket sales service that can then provide all the necessary data.

And very good it is too, TheTrainLine business accounts work by payment on invoice (at a fee of £3 per transaction IIRC) which means everything is above board and clearly defined as business travel. £3 is a steep booking fee, but it's cheaper than the admin issues of refunding petty cash claims.

Booking confirmations should be sufficient for the same reason, providing it clearly shows the cost, origin, destination and class of travel.

If you rock up at the station to buy a ticket for that day, you're a bit snookered though. The receipts are not good enough for most business needs. But tickets are not the property of the passenger, so businesses need to move on from requiring them.

 

[bb21]

The receipts are not good enough for most business needs. But tickets are not the property of the passenger, so businesses need to move on from requiring them.

Many TOCs (perhaps not all) now issue receipts that show the full details of the actual ticket purchased. I really don't understand why these are not acceptable.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Many TOCs (perhaps not all) now issue receipts that show the full details of the actual ticket purchased.

...but not as a matter of course. You have to ask for them, and know they exist, and know they are different to the card payment receipt. I'm still not sure how to get one from a TVM, either.

 

[Haywain]

Many years ago a business I worked for asked me to go on a trip by train and then continue by taxi. When it came to claiming the expenses afterwards they accepted the amount claimed for the taxi without question, but wanted the train ticket to verify the (much smaller) train fare was correct. I didn't have the ticket as it had been collected. I pointed out the absurdity of the request and got paid the expenses. After they had phoned the local station to check the fare!

 

[island]

Actually the main reason that Waterloo East returns tickets is because they are valid through Waterloo mainline. Tickets from Kent are valid to/from Vauxhall while SWT ones are valid to/from Charing Cross, London Bridge, Cannon Street etc.

Yes, this.

On the main point, we've had extensive discussions before on previous threads that have gone around in circles between the "tickets are the property of the railway and employers need to deal with that" camp and the "the railway should be more flexible with its paying customers". Can we not have this again?

 

[jon0844]

But I've seen on here that some train companies are now issuing better receipts, which sounds like the perfect solution.

Maybe when the new ticket design is rolled out nationally, receipts will also have more information too.

If so, job done.

 

[Brucey]

My current and former employers both insist on either actual tickets, a receipt showing details of the journey or an Oyster printout (from the station, not online).

If I start my journey at an unmanned station, I have to purchase from the TVM. This will give me a receipt for "TICKET". If I'm lucky, I might even get a receipt for "001 TICKET". Definitely not acceptable, it could be a ticket for absolutely anything in any class of travel.

After a little dispute with my former employer about a swallowed ticket, I always insisted they purchased my ticket prior to travel. Let's just say that the "SUNDRY COUPON" issued by the travel agent showed they'd spent quite a bit in unnecessary fees.

 

[bb21]

Yes, one thing I never quite understood is why things like TVM receipts cannot be amended to show at least the origin, destination and the class of travel. It isn't difficult to reprogram them.

 

[button_boxer]

Yes, one thing I never quite understood is why things like TVM receipts cannot be amended to show at least the origin, destination and the class of travel. It isn't difficult to reprogram them.

Because with them being printed on common stock they would end up looking even more like tickets than they do now, and you risk people who don't know better throwing away the ticket and keeping the receipt rather than the other way round.

If TVMs printed receipts on till roll type paper instead of ticket stock then it would be much more obvious to the uninitiated which is which, but this would require a second printer in every TVM.

 

[maniacmartin]

Some newer TVMs print receipts on till roll. The new ones on the Easr London Line have two Newbury printers and also a till roll printer, and yes it can print on all three at once

 

[bb21]

Because with them being printed on common stock they would end up looking even more like tickets than they do now, and you risk people who don't know better throwing away the ticket and keeping the receipt rather than the other way round.

If TVMs printed receipts on till roll type paper instead of ticket stock then it would be much more obvious to the uninitiated which is which, but this would require a second printer in every TVM.

There is no need for them to look like tickets. There are measures that can be taken such as printing in large fonts: "This is not a ticket." The receipt should only be printed if specifically requested as of now, and there could be on-screen reminders to keep both the ticket and receipt when travelling.

It is impossible to completely eliminate the problem of people throwing away the right coupon. A line needs to be drawn somewhere beyond which those cannot function cannot be catered for.