Why is British Rail Class 387 Dual Voltage?

[Class377/5]

I suggest you re-read my earlier post. I was suggesting new EMUs which could have been ordered in lieu of 319s could have been ordered in 3 and 4 car formations, which would have then allowed 6 car formations (by doubling up the 3 car formations.) As a consequence of you mis-reading that it has meant some of the other points you made earlier were irrelevant. Nothing official has suggested 319s will go on to services currently run by TPE, so my idea is replacing 4 car DMU formations with 6 car EMU formations.

The whole point of the EMU cascade is to provide extra capacity that was supposed to be provided a couple of years back by a new DMU order. The extra capacity is already overdue. How does replacing a 4 car Sprinter diagram with a 319 provide extra capacity? Should we double capacity on services where 5/6 car cars would be sufficient? How much would that cost in platform lengthening and track access, leasing and maintenance costs for the carriages that would just carry fresh air?

The HLOS for CP4 initially had Northern getting new 3 car EMUs. LM is a subsided franchise as well yet they've introduced a large number of both DMUs and EMUs, Southeastern is a subsided franchise and yet they can afford to operate luxurious class 395s!

The 319s in their current state will only attract a small number of rail enthusiasts to use the services they operate for Northern. New vehicles can attract a lot of extra passengers as we've seen with the 175s and 185s.

Not sure you actually bother to read my posts as its clear your either avoid the questions asked of you or going after irrelevant points. but hey if you want to rant aimlessly go ahead. I'm not going to reply to someone so disrespectful and ignorant any more.

I believe the access doors were only required for the tight bores of the Snow Hill Tunnel. As a result of the Thameslink Programme, the majority of the original tunnel has been replaced and as such has allowed for the restriction to be removed.

No part of the Snow Hill Tunnel has been replaced under the Thameslink Programme. Signalling has been upgraded and OHLE introduced but no whole scale rebuilding at all.

 

[starrymarkb]

I believe the access doors were only required for the tight bores of the Snow Hill Tunnel. As a result of the Thameslink Programme, the majority of the original tunnel has been replaced and as such has allowed for the restriction to be removed.

The tight bores were around Barbican on the now closed Moorgate line Snow Hill is IIRC double tracked.

 

[swt_passenger]

I believe the access doors were only required for the tight bores of the Snow Hill Tunnel. As a result of the Thameslink Programme, the majority of the original tunnel has been replaced and as such has allowed for the restriction to be removed.

Snow Hill tunnel is not a bored tunnel at all. Most was built by cut and cover. It hasn't been replaced as part of the current Thameslink programme either...

The disused stations website page here has numerous photos of the area of Snow Hill tunnel between Farringdon and the original southern portal prior to the 1980's reopening: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/snow_hill/index1.shtml

Since reopening, City Thamesink was built as a new station, extending the south portal nearer Blackfriars, but that is really a basement rather than a tunnel...

 

[northwichcat]

I'm not going to reply to someone so disrespectful and ignorant any more.

Bit rich coming from the person who started off a rant related to a misinterpreted reading of my post and started accusing me of ignoring questions which hadn't even been asked.

 

[zn1]

"The 319s in their current state will only attract a small number of rail enthusiasts to use the services they operate for Northern. New vehicles can attract a lot of extra passengers as we've seen with the 175s and 185s."

im sorry mr collins but are you seriously telling me that the droves of gricers are going to be going in their hoardes up north to ride 20 year old units? but wont because they havent been through their half life rebuild?

Im under the impression that the 319s will be cascaded north to augment,strengthen, replace life expired stock and provide service extentions.

I didnt realise that the tocs were there purely to service the gricers and spotters..

im either getting old and senile or the trains i see full and standing are not commuters and travellers but are full and standing with number and "unit" bashers

mad

 

[Class 170101]

On the DLR Refurbished P89 stock (no end doors) did work to Bank (though was rare) but P86 was not permitted. I believe the doors were added as the emergency walkways in the Bank tunnel were ruled too narrow after the Kings Cross Fire (though were compliant with rules when construction began

I understood from a book I had about the DLR that all the P Stock was banned from working to the Bank as they had no end doors. The addition of the side walkway was not relevant to whether they were allowed to the Bank or not.

 

[jon0844]

If you look at what has been done to some 317s, the 321 demonstrator and the possible plans by the ROSCO for the 319s, then I can't see the fuss over where they end up. They're good, reliable, trains and all of the trains of that era seem to be capable of looking like new if the money is spent.

If they could have been modified and kept on Thameslink, I wouldn't have been upset to see a fully refurbished train still kept down here. But they can't operate as 12-cars and won't support ATO in the future. So they HAVE to go.

 

[Haydn1971]

Personally I'm not against old stock, I'm totally against old stock that hasn't had a refurb though... If older trains can be made nicer with decent seats, air-con, wifi and info systems, yeah bring em on

 

[asylumxl]

Snow Hill tunnel is not a bored tunnel at all. Most was built by cut and cover. It hasn't been replaced as part of the current Thameslink programme either...

The disused stations website page here has numerous photos of the area of Snow Hill tunnel between Farringdon and the original southern portal prior to the 1980's reopening: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/snow_hill/index1.shtml

Since reopening, City Thamesink was built as a new station, extending the south portal nearer Blackfriars, but that is really a basement rather than a tunnel...

Sorry, absolute memory fail. I meant the Smithfield Tunnels.

I seem to recall only a small amount of the original structure is visible on the left hand side when heading south.

 

[jon0844]

Personally I'm not against old stock, I'm totally against old stock that hasn't had a refurb though... If older trains can be made nicer with decent seats, air-con, wifi and info systems, yeah bring em on

Fair enough. I hope all the 319s, as well as all the trains from that era, will eventually get substantial rebuilds like shown with some of the demonstrators we've seen or heard about.

 

[Haydn1971]

Fair enough. I hope all the 319s, as well as all the trains from that era, will eventually get substantial rebuilds like shown with some of the demonstrators we've seen or heard about.

If experiences to date are anything to go by, i.e. The current Northern fleet, I've little confidence in decent refurbs happening... I use EMT 158's on a regular basis and they are in a different league to the Northern 158's, but even then, there's no wifi on them and it's a battle at the platform to get on first to ensure a seat, which reinforces what others say in that we need more carriages up here.

 

[northwichcat]

are you seriously telling me that the droves of gricers are going to be going in their hoardes up north to ride 20 year old units? but wont because they havent been through their half life rebuild?

I'm saying why would an occasional passenger be attracted to use the train more often because it's now operated by a 25 year old EMU instead of a 25 year old DMU? They wouldn't, if you want more passengers you need modern rolling stock or refurbished rolling stock which gives the impression of being modern or if you increase the service frequency then you attract more passengers. If you provide old stock in it's original state then it's only a small number of enthusiasts that will be attracted to use it

replace life expired stock

No DMUs will be withdrawn before the end of the current Northern franchise.

I didnt realise that the tocs were there purely to service the gricers and spotters..

im either getting old and senile or the trains i see full and standing are not commuters and travellers but are full and standing with number and "unit" bashers

mad

You're mad because you're jumping to incorrect conclusions after not reading my post properly. You must get stressed extremely easily.