debt recovery and prosecutions unit letter

[somervilli]

Hi, I was wondering whether some of you could help me/give some reassurance.

About two months ago I travelled from x station to Manchester, but failed to get a ticket beforehand as the station was unmanned and the conductor did not come down the train.

It was a stupid mistake, and I genuinely miscounted my money before leaving. I said this in the letter back and included and apology and willingness to pay any fines.

What are the chances it will go to court and I will get a record?

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

[Haywain]

Please be clear - have you already sent a letter in response to the one you received asking for your version of events? If you have we can only advise on what maight happen as a result, rather than giving advice on what your best approach might be.

 

[somervilli]

have sent the letter in response to the one asking for my version today.

Im wondering about the potential results of this letter? And/or how likely it will be to go to court/lead to prosecution?

 

[PermitToTravel]

How did you know the fare from the closer station, and that it would be less than the amount of money you have?

 

[somervilli]

I have sent the letter in response to the one asking for my version today.

Im wondering about the potential results of this letter? And/or how likely it will be to go to court/lead to prosecution?

 

[carriageline]

Your becoming a lawyer, but can't simply obey the law? Says it all really doesn't it?

Anyway, your in safe hands here. The mighty fine people on here will help you, it might involve an out of court settlement, it might not.


I see you replied to the letter, and said you are willing to pay fines? AFAIK, fines are imposed by the courts.

 

[Fare-Cop]

In my experience where there is clear evidence of intent to avoid a fare as is shown by offering a fare for a shorter journey than the traveller has actually made, TOCs are less minded towards disposal without prosecution.

That is not to say that they might not accept an offer to pay all of the costs that they have incurred and any outstanding fares, just that is less likely when a deliberate attempt not to pay has been recorded than if a simple breach of Byelaw is evident.

 

[somervilli]

QUOTE=Fare-Cop;1752370]In my experience where there is clear evidence of intent to avoid a fare as is shown by offering a fare for a shorter journey than the traveller has actually made, TOCs are less minded towards disposal without prosecution.

That is not to say that they might not accept an offer to pay all of the costs that they have incurred and any outstanding fares, just that is less likely when a deliberate attempt not to pay has been recorded than if a simple breach of Byelaw is evident.[/QUOTE]

Does that mean they will prosecute and I will get a criminal record?
How likely is it that they will accept out of court settlement??

I feel so rubbish, i was totally panicked when i realised i didnt have the right money and thought that paying some kind of fare was better than not having a ticket at all. Stupid now, I see, given that it means I fall under the harsher offence

 

[Simon11]

Do you have the police crime number, whem you reported your purse being stolen?

 

[rdeez]

Do you have the police crime number, whem you reported your purse being stolen?

The stolen purse situation isn't really mitigating considering it happened the day before the journey in question, and a lie was still told initially...

 

[somervilli]

The train company is Northern rail if that helps, and I have no previous convictions or anything like that.
I can even show reams of bank statements showing regular payments for train tickets. I just didn't have my bank card on this journey and upon coming to pay for my ticket, not enough money. So I panicked and my next thought was to say somewhere closer.
I really didn't intend to evade fares - but as I lied originally, I realise that this could count as intent?
What are the realistic chances of being convicted? Does anyone know when I will hear back again from Northern?

 

[Fare-Cop]

The train company is Northern rail if that helps, and I have no previous convictions or anything like that.
I can even show reams of bank statements showing regular payments for train tickets. I just didn't have my bank card on this journey and upon coming to pay for my ticket, not enough money. So I panicked and my next thought was to say somewhere closer.
I really didn't intend to evade fares - but as I lied originally, I realise that this could count as intent?
What are the realistic chances of being convicted? Does anyone know when I will hear back again from Northern?

Yes, the fact that you did attempt to avoid the correct fare by being untruthful indicates a strong likelihood of conviction if this gets to Court

Most TOCs prosecution offices are very busy and take cases in chronological order of report, it may be 4-6 weeks before you get a letter at busy times.

When you do get a letter reply promptly, be truthful and apologetic, and there is a chance that you may be allowed an opportunity to dispose of the matter without Court action.

 

[redbutton]

I'm sure you'll learn this in your legal training, but in the legal sense "intent" is less about one's state of mind and more about one's actions. Legally, it doesn't matter why you did it; when you chose to lie about your destination, you showed intent to pay less than the fare due. From Northern's point-of-view, that's an open-and-shut RoRA prosecution.

However, if the case does go to court, I believe the TOC only receives the fare owed. Any fine the court imposes would end up going into a fund. So, it may still be in their interest to accept an out-of-court settlement since they will get to keep all the money.

If you do receive a prosecution under RoRA, and a conviction would have such grave consequences on your career path, then it would probably be worth discussing the matter with a solicitor. I believe some recommendations have been given in other threads.

Note: I'm not a lawyer- I'm just distilling what I've read on this and other forums.

 

[Fare-Cop]

I believe the TOC only receives the fare owed. Any fine the court imposes would end up going into a fund. So, it may still be in their interest to accept an out-of-court settlement since they will get to keep all the money.

If the case is successful at Court the prosecutor will apply for award of both the fare owed and the costs of bringing the prosecution, which may average between £100-£150 per case. (More if a trial is necessary and witnesses have to be called.)

The Court will normally order the defendant to pay the prosecutor's costs and compensation of the fare, which goes to the TOC, as well as any fine and a victim surcharge payable to the Court if s/he is found guilty.

It may be that the Court will order only a part of the costs to be paid if the defendant can show that they have very limited means, or on benefits etc.

 

[somervilli]

thanks for all your responses.

is it possible for this thread to be deleted at all? for personal reasons. thanks.

 

[theblackwatch]

Please note that is not our policy to delete threads for personal reasons.

 

[island]

Please note that is not our policy to delete threads for personal reasons.

And the sticky thread says as much.