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Platform numbering standards?

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GodAtum

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I was changing at Woking this morning and went the completely wrong direction as the platform numbering is opposite of what Guildford is.

At Guildford, in the direction of London, the platforms are numbered from right to left. However in Woking they are numbered from left to right.

Is there a reason why platforms arent numbered in the same direction?
 
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swt_passenger

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I think at fairly major 'multiple platform' stations (such as Guildford or Woking) the numbering often starts at the side which is considered the 'main entrance'.

There doesn't seem to be any apparent rule or national standardisation about it in terms of up or down direction, and even then they are sometimes changed.

We were discussing the stations between Fareham and Southampton a few weeks ago (in a thread I can't find), and Fareham for one had been switched from one way to the other, this appeared to coincide with electrification and the new through serve to London starting.
 

telstarbox

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At terminus stations the platforms are usually numbered from left to right (Waterloo, Victoria, St Pancras, Paddington, London Bridge, Liverpool Street, Manchester Piccadilly, Liverpool Lime Street Glasgow Central, Brighton, etc), but at King's Cross and Euston it's the other way round.
 

user15681

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There are lettered platforms at Waterloo East (A-D) and St Pancras (A and B for Thameslink) - are there any others?

Folkestone Central too. Coincidence they're all south east stations?
 
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318259

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I've noticed that, in the Strathclyde area, the platform heading towards Glasgow Central / Queen Street is always Platform 1, and the other is Platform 2.

Things get a bit hazy between Glasgow and Edinburgh, where Platform 1 becomes the platform going towards Edinburgh.

Is there some sort of national convention that says the up platform is always platform 1?
 

overtonchris

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I was changing at Woking this morning and went the completely wrong direction as the platform numbering is opposite of what Guildford is.

At Guildford, in the direction of London, the platforms are numbered from right to left. However in Woking they are numbered from left to right.

Is there a reason why platforms arent numbered in the same direction?

I've wondered the same for years. I suppose it's historical ... but it doesn't make it logical!!! Incidentally I've got a friend who knows even less about the railways that I do (and that's going some) who is convinced that all London bound trains go from Platform 1...from all stations.:roll:....Strange what myths surround our railways!
 

Buttsy

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It's also confusing when platforms aren't numbered in order. Oxford has p1 by the main entrance (town side), p2 opposite p1 and p3, the north bay, to the town side of p1...
 

user15681

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When did that happen? I was there a couple of summers ago and the platforms were numeric then.

Oops, maybe not then! I haven't been there in a while either, but on RTT the other day it was displaying A and B as the platforms, so I assumed it had changed.
 

MidnightFlyer

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Oops, maybe not then! I haven't been there in a while either, but on RTT the other day it was displaying A and B as the platforms, so I assumed it had changed.

Ah, I checked RTT a minute ago before posting and they were numeric then too ;)
 

Cherry_Picker

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It's also confusing when platforms aren't numbered in order. Oxford has p1 by the main entrance (town side), p2 opposite p1 and p3, the north bay, to the town side of p1...

It seems odd when platforms don't get renumbered after a station is modified. Nobody died when the platforms at Birmingham Moor Street (which has comparable passenger numbers to Oxford) were renumbered a couple of years ago so they read 1-2-3-4-5 instead of 2-1-3-4-5 following the reopening of the south facing bays.
 

IrishDave

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It seems odd when platforms don't get renumbered after a station is modified. Nobody died when the platforms at Birmingham Moor Street (which has comparable passenger numbers to Oxford) were renumbered a couple of years ago so they read 1-2-3-4-5 instead of 2-1-3-4-5 following the reopening of the south facing bays.

The problem with renumbering platforms is the cost of fixing the signalling. Signals often have a "theatre indicator" which display the platform number the train is signalled into (as opposed to a junction indicator with five white lights). Changing the theatre indicator to cope with renumbered platforms counts (in some sense) as resignalling, and often isn't worth it if the area is due to be resignalled anyway in a few years time.

In particular, Oxford is provisionally due for resignalling in 2015 (though I'm told that might slip a little), and Kings Cross is provisionally due for resignalling in 2019, so hopefully then the platforms will be renumbered. In the meantime, it's not worth having to fiddle with miles and miles of wiring.
 

61653 HTAFC

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The problem with renumbering platforms is the cost of fixing the signalling. Signals often have a "theatre indicator" which display the platform number the train is signalled into (as opposed to a junction indicator with five white lights). Changing the theatre indicator to cope with renumbered platforms counts (in some sense) as resignalling, and often isn't worth it if the area is due to be resignalled anyway in a few years time.

In particular, Oxford is provisionally due for resignalling in 2015 (though I'm told that might slip a little), and Kings Cross is provisionally due for resignalling in 2019, so hopefully then the platforms will be renumbered. In the meantime, it's not worth having to fiddle with miles and miles of wiring.

What is now P1 at Leeds was known as 'Platform W' (presumably for 'Wellington'- the original name of that part of the station) when it first opened because the 'Leeds 1st' rebuilding scheme was being drawn up which involved re-signalling as well as adding several more new platforms.
 

swt_passenger

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If you were to suggest that the 'main London bound platform' should be P1, you could keep a DfT committee occupied for years just sorting out Clapham Jn...
 

overtonchris

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If you were to suggest that the 'main London bound platform' should be P1, you could keep a DfT committee occupied for years just sorting out Clapham Jn...

What an utterly terrifying prospect!!! The cost of any pre-consultation alone would probably double the horribly pricey SWT tickets in a trice! OW.:D
 

Cherry_Picker

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The problem with renumbering platforms is the cost of fixing the signalling. Signals often have a "theatre indicator" which display the platform number the train is signalled into (as opposed to a junction indicator with five white lights). Changing the theatre indicator to cope with renumbered platforms counts (in some sense) as resignalling, and often isn't worth it if the area is due to be resignalled anyway in a few years time.

In particular, Oxford is provisionally due for resignalling in 2015 (though I'm told that might slip a little), and Kings Cross is provisionally due for resignalling in 2019, so hopefully then the platforms will be renumbered. In the meantime, it's not worth having to fiddle with miles and miles of wiring.


It's a valid point I'd not considered. Thanks :)

Moor Street was done as part of a resignalling, and the theatre boxes at Snow Hill which refer to Moor Street call the through platforms U & D.
 

CatfordCat

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I am fairly sure that Waterloo East and New Cross (and presumably Catford) having platform letters is to eliminate any possibility of someone going to (for example) platform 1 at one of those stations by mistake when they should have gone to platform 1 at Waterloo (main), New Cross Gate or Catford Bridge.

And Reading is probably one of the most complicated platform numbering if you're expecting platform 1 to be the one nearest the entrance... (It's marginally simpler now that 4a and 4b - or their replacements - have now been given real numbers)

and eek at the thought of trying to 'rationalise' Clapham Junction. Although it was quite amusing that for many years platform 1 had no trains (or rails) - it still doesn't although there's a new platform 1 now.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Taunton threw me when I moved down there: P1 side is nearest the town, but on the opposite side from the ugly and cramped post-war main entrance and ticket office. P1 itself is a south/west-facing bay that seldom sees use.
 

30907

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I am fairly sure that Waterloo East and New Cross (and presumably Catford) having platform letters is to eliminate any possibility of someone going to (for example) platform 1 at one of those stations by mistake when they should have gone to platform 1 at Waterloo (main), New Cross Gate or Catford Bridge.

Waterloo East is as you say and has been for generations (perhaps right back to the 1920's?)

New Cross - the NR running lines are numbered 1-3 (since the last resignalling) but if the platforms were so numbered, the ELL would have to be 0 - I think that's the reason there.

Catford is a recent change (doesn't show on the SR Track Map) - a spin-off of the internet/mobile app age? Or do the departure indicators at street level show both stations in one? Not been there in years so don't know....
 

moggie

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It's a valid point I'd not considered. Thanks :)

Moor Street was done as part of a resignalling, and the theatre boxes at Snow Hill which refer to Moor Street call the through platforms U & D.
If it were just an adjustment to the route indicator it would probably get done but then you have to take into account the number of related function labels on the control equipment, terminations, cables and the serious quantity of diagrams that support the change you would understand why they don't get altered. Time and money...............time's are 'ard as they say.
 

DownSouth

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It's also confusing when platforms aren't numbered in order. Oxford has p1 by the main entrance (town side), p2 opposite p1 and p3, the north bay, to the town side of p1...
Sounds reasonable if it is the case that the third platform was added at a later time once the first two were in use. The potential confusion would have to be weighed up against the upheaval of other options such as renumbering platforms which are already in use and causing confusion to existing regular users, or having a ridiculous "Platform 0" which carries the implication it's not a platform in use for passenger trains.

I've noticed that, in the Strathclyde area, the platform heading towards Glasgow Central / Queen Street is always Platform 1, and the other is Platform 2.

Things get a bit hazy between Glasgow and Edinburgh, where Platform 1 becomes the platform going towards Edinburgh.

Is there some sort of national convention that says the up platform is always platform 1?
The convention would be that platform 1 is normally that where the main entrance is located.

The convention which decides which side gets the main entrance would generally be to do with the local transport patterns as understood when the line was built -obviously you would build your ticket office, main waiting areas etc on the side where people wait to catch their train in the morning rather than where they arrive in the evening and leave the station without hanging around. If the major city where everyone goes is actually in the Down direction as arbitrarily and irrelevantly defined with respect to London (i.e. any station between Berwick-Edinburgh or between Carstairs-Glasgow) then you're best served by calling the Down line as platform 1 - because in practice it is actually the Up line for the main service.

Many UK areas had Up/Down defined in the opposite direction at some point in the past, before their integration into a nationally regulated network had the local Up/Down abandoned for the London-centric convention. This could yet happen again if Scotland secedes from the UK, their new railway authority might define anywhere from one to three conventions (three = Up towards Glasgow, Up towards Edinburgh, and something else for routes linking the two) which would all have UK-Scotland trains starting as Down trains and becoming Up trains at the international border.

Larger countries (apart from maybe France) have this easier because the absence of a single dominant city with terminus stations like London means there is no single national convention for Up/Down to make things awkward in the other cities. National rail in Australia, for example, is the result of links being built to bridge the gaps between four systems centred on the state capital cities of Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney and Perth. A single Up/Down would be impossible to do without many conflicts, so interstate trains are talked about as East-West (Perth/Darwin-Adelaide, Perth-Sydney, Adelaide-Sydney, and Adelaide-Melbourne) or North/South (Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane) with Up/Down only being used when referring to particular lines in those suburban areas where that is the convention.
I'm not sure what the conventions are in the other state capital cities are though - Adelaide is the only one of the four where the central station is a terminal rather than a through station.
 

edwin_m

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Many years ago I read (probably in Modern Railways) that all the platforms on the Midland electrification were being renumbered the same way round. The stated reason was that the announcer could use the long-line PA to announce "the next London train is on platform 1" (or whatever) to several stations at once.
 
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