Birmingham New Street - Permissive Signalling

[broomster]

Just a quick question regarding Birmingham New Streets signalling... Today I arrived into platform 1B from the Wolverhampton side with a 4 car train, and stopped short of the mid platform signal - and once boarding was complete we departed towards Birmingham International... The signal mid platform was on Green - and the one at the end of the platform (1A end) was on single yellow...

Now, on similar journeys when we've arrived at the B end of platforms and departed in the same direction towards BHI - we have been given a single yellow on the mid platform signal - and then "drawn forward" to the A end, stopped - released the doors again - and then been despatched from there on either yellow or green signals....

Now, my question is - do all the platforms have a Green aspect on the mid platform signals? If so, what is the purpose of "drawing forward" before being despatched? If they don't - and only have a yellow aspect - can anyone explain why P1 is signalled with a Green on the mid platform signal - yet the others don't?

A lot of the time we will get a "call forward" shunt aspect mid platform on arriving into the station- and pull past this mid platform signal - just behind the train in front.. On these occasions we always get sent straight out when dispatched...

Anyone in the know care to explain?

Cheers,
Mike.

 

[Tomnick]

On the occasions that your train's been drawn forward from the 'B' end to the 'A' end, was that simply to free up platform space for a following arrival? As far as I'm aware (though I do, usually with success, try to stay well away from the place!), all the mid-platform signals are capable of clearing to green, and there's no reason why a train standing in rear of one shouldn't depart from that position (without stopping again).

 

[broomster]

On the occasions that your train's been drawn forward from the 'B' end to the 'A' end, was that simply to free up platform space for a following arrival?

On some occasions, yes - as we were due to sit there another 3-4 minutes.. Though on other occasions we were late - and could/should have gone straight out - and we were despatched literally as soon as the guard stepped back onto the platform - so where perhaps stationary the second time for 30-45 seconds?

As far as I'm aware (though I do, usually with success, try to stay well away from the place!), all the mid-platform signals are capable of clearing to green, and there's no reason why a train standing in rear of one shouldn't depart from that position (without stopping again).

I usually just pass through (thankfully!) but next time I'm there for any length of time, I'll have a wander and investigate...

Ta for the reply

 

[Tomnick]

No problem, always happy to help if I can!

All I can think is that, possibly by local instruction, any train brought to a stand (by signals) further along the length of the platform then needs to go through the dispatch process again. I'm sure I've seen it said that (again, specific to New St) they shouldn't be dispatched under those circumstances until they've got a green rather than a yellow, probably for that reason!

 

[edwin_m]

I think they try to draw trains up to the end of the platform they will be departing from, but they don't always succeed. This is probably one of the reasons for last-minute platform changes at New Street. I don't recall ever being stopped twice there, so I think it must be much more common to get a route out of the platform from whichever end it is sitting in.

 

[plastictaffy]

Indeed the mid-platform signals can (and do) clear to green. If you're approaching BNS from the Stour and Derby end, the platform signal will be yellow if he requires the driver to pull up the B end of the platform, red if he doesn't, and (I believe) two white lights if he wants him to "bang up" to another unit. Also, as a little aside, when dispatching back towards the Stour and Derby tunnels, we must despatch on green. Although the signal does show yellow also, local instruction for us is that it must be green to leave.

 

[hello]

all the mid-platform signals are capable of clearing to green, and there's no reason why a train standing in rear of one shouldn't depart from that position (without stopping again).

apart from platform 3

 

[gnolife]

Indeed the mid-platform signals can (and do) clear to green. If you're approaching BNS from the Stour and Derby end, the platform signal will be yellow if he requires the driver to pull up the B end of the platform, red if he doesn't, and (I believe) two white lights if he wants him to "bang up" to another unit. Also, as a little aside, when dispatching back towards the Stour and Derby tunnels, we must despatch on green. Although the signal does show yellow also, local instruction for us is that it must be green to leave.

So which end of Barnes is the Stour and Derby end then?

 

[The Planner]

apart from platform 3

I must be missing something here then as surely 206 can show a green aspect in the up as can 198 in the down?

 

[hello]

Although the signal does show yellow also, local instruction for us is that it must be green to leave.

then surely that local instruction should be applied
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I must be missing something here then as surely 206 can show a green aspect in the up as can 198 in the down?

it can if your running straight into 3a from wolves, but if you stop in the middle then the signal cannot be cleared to a green (only yellow) so the train has to drop down to 3a before it can depart the station fully

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Platform 12 was set up with a mid platform signal only in one direction, not sure if that's still the case?

 

[Philip Elliott]

So which end of Barnes is the Stour and Derby end then?

*YAWN* "BNS" is an officially recognised shorthand for New Street - you can see it on the wheelchair/trolley assistance ramps.

 

[Geezertronic]

*YAWN* "BNS" is an officially recognised shorthand for New Street - you can see it on the wheelchair/trolley assistance ramps.

Yet the railway short code for Birmingham New Street is BHM whereas BNS is Barnes... even The Trainline app recognises BNS as Barnes...

 

[Tomnick]

In a thread discussing the arrangements at Birmingham New Street (and nowhere else), I think most folk can manage to work out that BNS isn't referring to Barnes. Perhaps B.N.S. would make it more obvious. Although I can see (limited) potential confusion, I can't state my dislike for the use of these three-letter codes, most of which mean nothing to the majority of people (even railway staff), strongly enough!

 

[Geezertronic]

In a thread discussing the arrangements at Birmingham New Street (and nowhere else), I think most folk can manage to work out that BNS isn't referring to Barnes. Perhaps B.N.S. would make it more obvious. Although I can see (limited) potential confusion, I can't state my dislike for the use of these three-letter codes, most of which mean nothing to the majority of people (even railway staff), strongly enough!

I guess it was good of gnolife to end his post with a to indicate humour in the hope that people wouldn't yawn and take it seriously

 

[Joseph_Locke]

In a thread discussing the arrangements at Birmingham New Street (and nowhere else), I think most folk can manage to work out that BNS isn't referring to Barnes. Perhaps B.N.S. would make it more obvious. Although I can see (limited) potential confusion, I can't state my dislike for the use of these three-letter codes, most of which mean nothing to the majority of people (even railway staff), strongly enough!

Au contraire - shirley it should be BHAMNWS?

 

[carriageline]

I HATE the use of the three letter codes, it's almost like people use them to show off that they know something and must be rail staff...

 

[ainsworth74]

Whilst on a thread regarding Birmingham New Street it would probably be safe to assume that BNS referred to the station in question our Forum Rules state that:

Accessible

• Please remember many members do not understand rail “jargon” (including acronyms, station codes and specialist terms). Such terms should be correctly defined the first time they are used; codes and abbreviations must not be made up.

So if you're going to use station codes they need to be the correct ones

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I HATE the use of the three letter codes, it's almost like people use them to show off that they know something and must be rail staff...

Maybe that was once the case, but with the rise of smartphone apps I think more members of the general public know and use station codes (at least those of the stations they travel through) than ever before.

 

[Philip Elliott]

Au contraire - shirley it should be BHAMNWS?

Perhaps we should alternate between STANME and TIPLOC codes? Excuse me, while I shunt a train into CARL998....

 

[LowLevel]

It's a longstanding abbreviation for Birmingham New Street that long predates CRS. It's not a made up abbreviation so it doesn't break the rule, it just happens to be a conflicting one

 

[455driver]

I guess it was good of gnolife to end his post with a to indicate humour in the hope that people wouldn't yawn and take it seriously

Yeah its far more difficult to type BHM instead of BNS isnt it! :roll:

if people want to be clever and use codes then the least they can do is use the right ones, it isnt difficult!

Edit-
Wot Ainsworth74 said!

 

[Tomnick]

Au contraire - shirley it should be BHAMNWS?

Is it 65630 that you're referring to?

 

[edwin_m]

Is someone expecting a prize for the most obscure location code?

 

[Geezertronic]

Yeah its far more difficult to type BHM instead of BNS isnt it! :roll:

BHM is all right handed due to the closeness of the letters whereas BNS is a mixture of both hands because of the keyboard location of the "S". Maybe they should shut Barnes and give Birmingham New Street the BNS code