Gatwick Airport: long queues

[SimonS]

So once again last night I returned to UK through Gatwick. At 8.30pm the queue for tickets snaked back round the corner and out into the terminal building.

Needless to say at least two of the ticket office windows were closed and the information desk on the rhs had a sign on it saying "this desk is closed". The GatEx ticket desk in the North Terminal by immigration was also closed.

This from my experience of passing through Gatwick every couple of weeks seems to be par for the course these days.

The staffing seemed to consist of a red jacketed female whose role was to stand by the head of the queue for the machines bellowing "next" at anyone who dared take more than 2 seconds to move towards a free machine, and a red jacketed male who appeared to be some type of spiv, intercepting people coming out of the airport and grunting that it was "window 6 for your express tickets".

What a shocking first impression for visitors coming to the UK. As if the complexity of tickets and operators isn't enough, is it really necessary to create such a third world impression?

 

[Andrewlong]

So once again last night I returned to UK through Gatwick. At 8.30pm the queue for tickets snaked back round the corner and out into the terminal building.

Needless to say at least two of the ticket office windows were closed and the information desk on the rhs had a sign on it saying "this desk is closed". The GatEx ticket desk in the North Terminal by immigration was also closed.

This from my experience of passing through Gatwick every couple of weeks seems to be par for the course these days.

The staffing seemed to consist of a red jacketed female whose role was to stand by the head of the queue for the machines bellowing "next" at anyone who dared take more than 2 seconds to move towards a free machine, and a red jacketed male who appeared to be some type of spiv, intercepting people coming out of the airport and grunting that it was "window 6 for your express tickets".

What a shocking first impression for visitors coming to the UK. As if the complexity of tickets and operators isn't enough, is it really necessary to create such a third world impression?

Perhaps those who run the service feel at 2030 it's not busy enough to justify keeping those ticket offices open. I also question the need for the Gatwick Express - there are plenty of semi fast services nowadays and these seem to be full off passengers with luggage. GatEx seems to be quiet. Do you charge a premium to use it nowadays ?

 

[VauxhallandI]

Opens a can of worms...

 

[Antman]

So once again last night I returned to UK through Gatwick. At 8.30pm the queue for tickets snaked back round the corner and out into the terminal building.

Needless to say at least two of the ticket office windows were closed and the information desk on the rhs had a sign on it saying "this desk is closed". The GatEx ticket desk in the North Terminal by immigration was also closed.

This from my experience of passing through Gatwick every couple of weeks seems to be par for the course these days.

The staffing seemed to consist of a red jacketed female whose role was to stand by the head of the queue for the machines bellowing "next" at anyone who dared take more than 2 seconds to move towards a free machine, and a red jacketed male who appeared to be some type of spiv, intercepting people coming out of the airport and grunting that it was "window 6 for your express tickets".

What a shocking first impression for visitors coming to the UK. As if the complexity of tickets and operators isn't enough, is it really necessary to create such a third world impression?

I assume it is no longer possible to board the Gatwick Express and buy a ticket on board?

I agree that it's an appalling first impression of the UK for visitors from overseas.

 

[feline1]

I had a very similar experience flying back from Belfast recently... my flight got in about 4pm on a Friday.

I hadn't bought a single back to Brighton in advance, because frankly when I'd tried to online, it was so confusing I just gave up. (And most of the cheap tickets tied me to a particular train - which is useless if your flight or baggage is delayed... and there was nothing I could load onto my "The Key" smartcard either)

Walked off the concourse into the Gatwick station and there was a queue of literally about 100 people for the ticket machines, and another huge queue for the ticket desks. Whilst in the queue, I tried to buy a ticket online so I could collect it from the collection machines instead (which had virtually no queue)... but either the website was so slow or the 3G data signal was so week, I still hadn't got through the 20 or so clicks you need to perform to buy a ticket!! :roll: so I just took my turn getting "NEXXXXXXXT!" yelled at me and bought one from the machine.

I missed a train in the process. Not a great experience.

 

[tsr]

I'm surprised the information desk was closed at that time, but unfortunately those ticket machine/office queues are not rare. The machines are often pretty slow, some are incapable of accepting certain cards, and on occasions decide they will not sell half the tickets available. And don't get me started on how many people have not been made aware of the lack of Oyster facilities and then end up wasting everyone's time trying to work out what the yellow readers on everything are for (needless to say, key cards - which should work - often don't seem to play ball, either). Some passengers also think the red "Gatwick Express" branding everywhere means that tickets for Southern/FCC can't be purchased. I would much prefer the station signage to be neutral... but I doubt that'll happen, even under TSGN.

Over Christmas, some agency staff did work on the info desk and queues, but it was a bit iffy as you never knew if you would get someone with half a brain or not. Most of them were good enough, though. They pretty much all disappeared after the engineering works completed. Several recruitment opportunities have been publicised for roles around the station since then, but given several staff who I've spoken to have wanted to leave, there now appears to be a serious problem with finding sufficient permanent staff. It's my opinion the station is also very notably top-heavy with management (usually to be found wandering around in the full-length orange jackets) who, by and large, only step in when something goes very badly wrong indeed.

Moving on from that, though, the layout is also not terribly intuitive, and the way the ticket office queue (in particular) is managed does mean that it looks much longer than it actually is. It's fair to say that major Southern stations do not manage queues well, as you'll be able to tell at London Victoria ticket office, from the feedback from users of Brighton TVMs, when bus replacements are needed at Haywards Heath - you name it. It's a shame, as any staff at the end of the queue generally seem to be better than those described by the OP. In fact, of all things, I'd say that whilst staff at Gatwick might be dispirited or annoyed by the regular shambles, I have regularly seen them go above and beyond for customers. Coping with a busy mainline prone to major congestion, as well as tourists unfamiliar with the country's myriad transport/ticketing options, is something that needs the patience of a saint, no matter how optimistic you are!

 

[SimonS]

Perhaps those who run the service feel at 2030 it's not busy enough to justify keeping those ticket offices open.

If so, with well over 100 people in the queue I would add lack of judgement/competent management to the issues highlighted above.

 

[island]

Last few times I've been through there has normally been one ticket window selling only Any Permitted tickets to London Victoria and two windows selling a full selection.

 

[Dumpton Park]

It's a *disaster* of a place, with nothing like enough ticket-selling space. The new Platform 7 doesn't help matters either as it only exits into the main concourse, not the exit bridge, cutting the number of entry gates by about 1/3 and impinging on the space for ticket buying.

As for the relaiability of the machines, I don't have UK cards and they often reject them - for purchases, but *not* for pick ups! So I always buy online (Red Spotted Hanky for the rewards scheme)and pick up - did this on Wednesday this week and didn't even need the reference number - the card did it straight off, which doesn't usually happen.

Dp

 

[infobleep]

The other stupid thing at Gatwick is that they have made the formwe platform 5/6 stairs from the concourse an escalator going down, making it harder to reach the concourse. A certain number of people actually change trains at Gatwick. Not everyone flies. I think that is sometimes forgotten.

I see people waiting on platform 7 but whenever I've passed through on trains, we have always stopped at platform 5. That's during peak rush hour of course

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Taunton]

It's a *disaster* of a place, with nothing like enough ticket-selling space.

I have to tell you it has been like that for as long as I can recall - certainly I can remember missing a Victoria service due to a huge and disorganised queue for tickets back in the 1970s, at a time when such were pretty much unknown (yes they were, believe it or not).

About the only upside I can recall was actually just a few months ago when I asked at the ticket counter for a single to Stansted Airport, having felt that such an oddball destination would be way beyond the machines' comprehension, and the clerk zoomed it out, in passing asking if I knew the way to there. I replied that I was pretty sure I did as, owing to the vagaries of airline arrangements, my car was in the car park there, but of course what was meant was the most optimal route across London. I do like that type of initiative.

 

[SimonS]

Probably not helped by the gates and forcing GatEx customers to buy in the ticket hall not on the train.

 

[dk1]

Still worth running a 'premium' service. Gatwick Airport would fight tooth & nail to retain it as does so much for their reputation & if you can get away with charging extra & people will pay then why not?

 

[anme]

The fact that the ticket machines don't accept foreign credit cards is a particular stroke of genius. They are happy to accept euros and dollars at ripoff exchange rates though. The really cynical might think those two facts are connected, especially as they haven't implemented that block on foreign cards properly - Amex cards still work, for example. Foreign cards work fine in ticket machines at other stations.

To be fair to the staff, I have recently found them polite and helpful, which is quite impressive given the number of tired, angry people they have to deal with.

As for the Gatwick Express, I can see the argument for keeping people with luggage off the other trains, but the express seems to run mostly empty. I can't help wondering if it's an efficient use of capacity on one of the world's busiest lines.

 

[68000]

I always buy ahead and use the ticket collection machine. It would be better if Southern/Gat Exp had a person selling tickets for Gatwick Express on the way out of the Airport just like Heathrow Express but I guess HEx can do that as Heathrow owns the operator

I got on the Gatwick Express on Friday the carraige looked full but almost every seat beside someone was occupied by a bag and other personal belongings. Someone sighed when I asked them to move their bag so I could sit down

 

[Julia]

The person employed simply to shout "NEXT" seems to be the latest trend in the world of retail, the Sainsbury's near my work does exactly the same, and the Tesco's would too if the said person wasn't always having to fiddle with the machines to keep them working...

 

[island]

I always buy ahead and use the ticket collection machine. It would be better if Southern/Gat Exp had a person selling tickets for Gatwick Express on the way out of the Airport just like Heathrow Express but I guess HEx can do that as Heathrow owns the operator

I'm sure Gatwick Airport would be happy to come to a commercial arrangement with Southern for someone with an Avantix Mobile to stand in the baggage hall.

The person employed simply to shout "NEXT" seems to be the latest trend in the world of retail, the Sainsbury's near my work does exactly the same, and the Tesco's would too if the said person wasn't always having to fiddle with the machines to keep them working...

People employed to direct customers to a free window/machine/desk where they can be served are indispensable when there is more than a few windows/machines/desks. Without them the locations furthest from the top of the queue serve far fewer people. I've lost count of the number of times I've been near the top of the queue in the absence of someone directing people and have needed to take up the role myself due to the person at the front of the queue being too busy texting/chatting/spacing out to go to a free position.

The automatic "counter number 5 please" systems are not a perfect substitute especially when there's (say) 10 positions and the top of the queue is near position 1. Consider this:

• "Counter number 8 please"
• Person on the queue starts ambling down towards counter 8
• Customer at counter number 6 finishes while they're on the way, and the first person goes to counter 6
• Counter 8 still has nobody at it

Insert other variations as you wish. A "next please" person just keeps calling people forward until all the sales points are in use.

 

[Kite159]

Best thing to do with the Gatwick Express is to keep it running as it is now, but scrap the 'premium' fare, treat it like a Southern service (so no FCC-only tickets allowed).

At least it won't be running with a mere handful of passengers when the other southern services are busy.

 

[infobleep]

Best thing to do with the Gatwick Express is to keep it running as it is now, but scrap the 'premium' fare, treat it like a Southern service (so no FCC-only tickets allowed).

At least it won't be running with a mere handful of passengers when the other southern services are busy.

But would Southern lose money? I mean if it only meant passengers would shift to that train instead of the other more crowded trains, it wouldn't benefit Southern. It doesn't matter if trains are over crowded unless it affects a franchise bid or they can make enough money by providing extra services.

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[yorkie]

I got on the Gatwick Express on Friday the carraige looked full but almost every seat beside someone was occupied by a bag and other personal belongings. Someone sighed when I asked them to move their bag so I could sit down

Just move to another coach - the leading coaches (heading South) or rear (heading North) are usually empty in my experience... unless it's one of the commuter runs to/from Brighton!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Best thing to do with the Gatwick Express is to keep it running as it is now, but scrap the 'premium' fare, treat it like a Southern service (so no FCC-only tickets allowed).

At least it won't be running with a mere handful of passengers when the other southern services are busy.

Like it or not, they cannot charge a premium as such, as they are bound by the Ticketing Settlement Agreement (TSA), and the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCoC). They aren't happy about this, but they have to lump it
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But would Southern lose money?

There are some tourists who pay way over the odds for expensive tickets that would be cheaper if they had bought a different origin/destination/routeing, but would still have been valid. So yes Southern would lose money if those people didn't pay over the odds.

But look at the loadings of off-peak services and there's no justification for keeping the status quo. You sometimes struggle to count into double figures!

 

[feline1]

Still worth running a 'premium' service. Gatwick Airport would fight tooth & nail to retain it as does so much for their reputation & if you can get away with charging extra & people will pay then why not?

Because exploiting gullible tourists isn't cool?

 

[cle]

Not accepting foreign credit cards (if they are also accepted at other places) is ridiculous and mean-spirited. What an advertisment for this money-grabbing country...

 

[mrmartin]

Still worth running a 'premium' service. Gatwick Airport would fight tooth & nail to retain it as does so much for their reputation & if you can get away with charging extra & people will pay then why not?

Does it really do so much for the reputation though?

The other fast trains are about 3 minutes slower. There's nothing particularly express about the whole thing (unlike Heathrow express which is dramatically quicker than the alternatives).

 

[island]

Not accepting foreign credit cards (if they are also accepted at other places) is ridiculous and mean-spirited. What an advertisment for this money-grabbing country...

They accept them at the booking office.

 

[infobleep]

They accept them at the booking office.

But that isn't helping channel migration. Self service machines are cheaper. Perhaps they feel foreigners would not understand are ticket machines.

On the face of it, to people understanding technology, the process is simple enough. Sadly the tickets available or even not available make this process for from simple.

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[jon0844]

What a shocking first impression for visitors coming to the UK. As if the complexity of tickets and operators isn't enough, is it really necessary to create such a third world impression?

When I landed at Gatwick at 2300, and got to the ticket hall around 2340, I also saw people who were standing to guide people to the next available TVM. It was actually fairly busy, but I seem to recall the main ticket office was closed completely so lots of tourists had no choice but to learn our wonderful TVM software.

I had to use no less than three machines to find one that responded properly to my press. It was only after finding one that worked, that at the far end were some newer machines that probably had better screens (maybe even capacitive ones that are a lot more responsive and accurate).

I spoke to one of the ladies about the machines, and she wasn't interested in the slightest. I guess her job was to guide people and assist those who were really confused about what ticket to buy (no doubt the advice being to select Gatwick Express, pay and go away!) and not to be concerned by faulty machines.

As my train wasn't for a while, I hung around long enough to see that other people had problems stabbing the screen and trying to select what ticket to buy, and how many passengers etc.

I expect that if they replaced all the machines (well touchscreens) it would speed things up considerably, but also make sure there are real people to sell tickets and give advice. Not everyone wants to buy a Gatwick Express ticket surely? And if they did, why not have smaller machines that ONLY sell them and simply ask customers how many people are travelling, how many children and single or return. Job done.

(Excuse me if they already exist, but I didn't spot any such machines).

For what it's worth, I wonder what the owner of Gatwick Airport thinks about this? The airport has transformed beyond recognition in many areas, and is a wonderful airport to travel from. From checking in, to clearing security, and even the incredibly well thought out toilets with individual areas with urinal, sink and hand dryer. It's a great airport and I bet the owners aren't going to be happy that just as someone leaves for London, their memory is tarnished by a poor experience getting onto a train.

I am assuming that the ticket hall and the station itself is not part of the airport.

GatEx seems to be quiet. Do you charge a premium to use it nowadays ?

It's always quiet, except I presume the ones that are used by commuters that continue on to Brighton?

And imagine it being gone midnight and a 10 car 442 rolls in to operate the next service, and there being only a few people boarding (all on one coach, as it was nearest the escalator).

Does it really do so much for the reputation though?

The other fast trains are about 3 minutes slower. There's nothing particularly express about the whole thing (unlike Heathrow express which is dramatically quicker than the alternatives).

The Heathrow Express, even before the refurbishment, was a really nice train built specifically for those with luggage. Post refurbishment, it's one of the nicest looking trains on the inside running in the UK (in my opinion). It's expensive, but you get something for the extra money (a quicker journey, and more trains, compared to the longer journey on Heathrow Connect and a longer wait if you miss one).

The 379s to Stansted are also generally good, if starting to look a bit worn out (seat covers, wall panels, missing buttons, ropey Wi-Fi) but the 442s? Wow, where do you begin on how these are totally unsuitable?

Enthusiasts might like them, and I remember being so impressed by them when travelling to Bournemouth many years go for their comfort, but time has moved on and the accessibility issues are just one of many reasons that they shouldn't be operating as airport express trains.

To make people pay a premium is just an added insult!

The only plus is that the bins are next to the doors, so I was able to use it to put the remains of my M&S sandwich, drink and crisps thanks to the lack of bins on the platform. In fact, that was the only thing that got on that carriage.

 

[transmanche]

Perhaps they feel foreigners would not understand are ticket machines.

You'd think ticket machines would be the preferred channel for non-English speakers to use, as they can be programmed in a multitude of languages.

 

[jon0844]

You'd think ticket machines would be the preferred channel for non-English speakers to use, as they can be programmed in a multitude of languages.

Do they have the right languages though? I presume they have a limited list, missing out an awful lot of languages from the key destinations served by Gatwick.

Translation services aren't that expensive these days, and there's not that much text anyway (much of it duplicated) given it's usually charged per word. You could obviously use Google Translate or the like, but a proper service will make sure everything is accurate and reads well in that language, perhaps re-wording things as needed.

But that's the least of the problems with most TVMs. Plenty of native English speaking people can't understand then beyond selecting whatever ticket shows on the 'front page' and hitting 'buy ticket'.

 

[transmanche]

Do they have the right languages though? I presume they have a limited list, missing out an awful lot of languages from the key destinations served by Gatwick.

I don't know, but I think we're both suggesting that it is comparatively trivial to program the machines with additional languages. Far easier than having ticket office staff trained up to speak those languages!

 

[jon0844]

Yes, we are suggesting the same thing.

Much as I think GatEx is a waste of time (and money), some nice and easy machines to sell those tickets only (with multiple languages) would be ideal. They'd take ALL cards, cash and why not even Euros? We can fix a rate easily enough, and validators can be programmed to accept anything.

The full TVMs are complicated at the best of times. Not that we're entirely unique on that front. Mind you, even Heathrow Express appears confusing because of the different fares, and not explaining clearly that some fares are a ticket bought before travel, and the others on the train. Why the need to make people wonder which ticket they need, and what the difference is? (But on the other hand, it's frustrating that the TVMs can't - or couldn't - sell discounted tickets with railcards either.)

If anyone was to ever want to improve things, I think the best plan of attack is to go to the airport owner and convince them of the damage it does to all their hard work on improving the airport itself. Then they can put more pressure on Southern or Network Rail as required.

In fact, it might be beneficial for the airport to fund more staff - but I am sure that this could then lead to the train operator cutting back even more.