Snow Hill - solving Birmingham's capacity crisis/

[Geezertronic]

I think you're forgetting two potential problems here. First of all in terms of New Street to Moor Street you need to know where you're going. Euston to St Pancras / Kings Cross is simple; straight down the Euston Road. From my experience New Street to Moor Street is less obvious.

Secondly, ignore the weather at your peril! Dragging heavy bags in the pouring rain is not fun, especially if your not sure where you're heading! At least with Euston - Kings Cross, if you have the time you can take the Tube.

It may be less obvious at the moment but pre New Street refurb it was signposted and easy to get from New Street to Moor Street via St Martins Queensway. When the refurb is completed, this route should be accessible again when the Queens Drive entrance reopens

I would also suggest that doing Euston to Kings Cross via the tube with heavy bags is even worse than walking due to the multi-level nature of the tube

 

[RichmondCommu]

However, walking down the Euston Road is seriously unlikely to be the interchange. Neither is negotiating "miles of tube corridors".

It's likely that Crossrail 2's Euston-St Pancras station will form the connection - with travelators connecting up Euston, St Pancras and King's Cross.

Is Crossrail 2 a definite? Unless it is I'm not too sure how secure those assumptions are.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It may be less obvious at the moment but pre New Street refurb it was signposted and easy to get from New Street to Moor Street via St Martins Queensway. When the refurb is completed, this route should be accessible again when the Queens Drive entrance reopens

I would also suggest that doing Euston to Kings Cross via the tube with heavy bags is even worse than walking due to the multi-level nature of the tube

But at least using the Tube you are not open to the elements! I would suggest that the same goes for walking from Birmingham New Street to Moor Street. If we had an expanded New Street this wouldn't be an issue!

 

[transmanche]

It's likely that Crossrail 2's Euston-St Pancras station will form the connection - with travelators connecting up Euston, St Pancras and King's Cross.

Is Crossrail 2 a definite? Unless it is I'm not too sure how secure those assumptions are.

It's as definite as HS2 is.

TfL have stated that Crossrail 2 (with a Euston connection) is essential for dispersing passengers from the HS2 terminus - without it Euston LU just won't be able to cope with the increase in passengers. Having a Euston St Pancras station certainly improves the business case for Crossrail 2 - so it's a two-for-one. It's also supported by Network Rail's L&SE RUS. Plus of course it brings capacity improvements to Liverpool St and Waterloo.

 

[RichmondCommu]

It's as definite as HS2 is.

TfL have stated that Crossrail 2 (with a Euston connection) is essential for dispersing passengers from the HS2 terminus - without it Euston LU just won't be able to cope with the increase in passengers. Having a Euston St Pancras station certainly improves the business case for Crossrail 2 - so it's a two-for-one. It's also supported by Network Rail's L&SE RUS. Plus of course it brings capacity improvements to Liverpool St and Waterloo.

Has it got Government backing in the same way as HS2 has? Unless it has I would have my suspicions. In terms of its planning how much progress has been made? I've seen it mentioned in the Evening Standard but that doesn't always mean much!

 

[transmanche]

Has it got Government backing in the same way as HS2 has? Unless it has I would have my suspicions. In terms of its planning how much progress has been made? I've seen it mentioned in the Evening Standard but that doesn't always mean much!

Well the route via Euston route is going through the safeguarding process, which is about as much as you'd expect at this stage (the pre-HS2 route was already safeguarded). Last year's consultation showed a preference for the regional options and there'll be a second consultation on the preferred route next year. TfL are expecting the detailed design to start after that, with a bill in 4-5 years.

Probably support from the Mayor in the next Mayoral term (whoever that is) will be the most important factor in getting the project approved. But TfL have demonstrated that the Crossrail project governance is a success so far and projected to come in under-budget. That bodes well for similar future projects.

 

[HowardGWR]

Back to Brum (the thread) I think one simply needs to realise that what is now planned is an excuse rather than a reasoned approach. In other words, if one was faced with the railway land now existing in Birmingham's centre, would one want four stations or one?

What is now 'planned' is a pragmatic fudge to deal with the fact that it is a legacy of competition (LNWR , MR, GWR) and also bad postwar planning. Perhaps two main stations, one for the business area (Snow Hill) and one for the other facilities (New St) would have been reasonable.

The same arguments go for London, although the difference in size naturally means more stations.

In all cases, people should be able to travel through these places without walking half a mile with suitcases. Platform to platform is acceptable, travelators (in the dry and within the barriered environment) are too.

 

[SS4]

But at least using the Tube you are not open to the elements! I would suggest that the same goes for walking from Birmingham New Street to Moor Street. If we had an expanded New Street this wouldn't be an issue!

That's true, you can always bank on the Tube to be too warm. You can get most of the way under cover but it's suboptimal to do so. For interchange purposes I would like the Metro to be allowed as a mode of travel between Snow Hill and New St for NR tickets as the Metro is expensive on its own much like the Maltese Cross works for cross-London interchange.

 

[eps200]

Back to Brum (the thread) I think one simply needs to realise that what is now planned is an excuse rather than a reasoned approach. In other words, if one was faced with the railway land now existing in Birmingham's centre, would one want four stations or one?

What is now 'planned' is a pragmatic fudge to deal with the fact that it is a legacy of competition (LNWR , MR, GWR) and also bad postwar planning. Perhaps two main stations, one for the business area (Snow Hill) and one for the other facilities (New St) would have been reasonable.

The same arguments go for London, although the difference in size naturally means more stations.

In all cases, people should be able to travel through these places without walking half a mile with suitcases. Platform to platform is acceptable, travelators (in the dry and within the barriered environment) are too.

They really should have built this when the chance was there

http://www.arup.com/_assets/_download/download488.pdf

 

[Old Hill Bank]

They really should have built this when the chance was there

http://www.arup.com/_assets/_download/download488.pdf

That was rejected on the grounds that many long distance passengers would have to change on to a full local service to get to the city centre.

 

[Bevan Price]

Well, no. HS2 Curzon Street will be a self-contained station with no platforms on the existing approach to New Street.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Even at the present time, with only the "North" end entrances open, I would suggest that it is a good deal less than the walk between Euston and Kings Cross/St Pancras (Which in itself isn't a great distance). The old Smallbrook Queensway entrance will indeed be reopening once the refurbishment is complete, shortening the distance further.

Yes, I did the walk yesterday both ways - it probably took about 5 minutes, but the signing is incomplete, and on the first occasion, I took a wrong turning once and found myself in the shopping area.

Another snag is that the route includes 2 gloomy subways that I would not feel safe using at night after most of the shoppers & commuters had gone home.

 

[duffield]

To jump on the last bit. One reason if i have luggage or see girlfriend off at New Street, I just change at Galton Bridge as a lot easier then having luggage in tow for myself.

Chris

This was my theory when travelling with my partially disabled wife. There are two issues:
One is that Galton Bridge is confusing and you can easily end up on the wrong platform or level; even though I'd studied the layout beforehand I still got it wrong. However, I'm pretty sure that it would be OK next time.
More serious was the time it took for the lifts to arrive. We had 12 minutes to change, which seemed adequate, but after waiting ages for the first lift (maybe 5+ mins?), we were running short of time and the second lift took so long to arrive we gave up and ran up the stairs which was very painful and distressing for my wife.
Probably OK if you've got 20+ mins for a connection but that's not the way the times worked out. If we go on the SVR another time I think we'll go down to Droitwich from New Street and then back up to Kidderminster.

 

[Class172]

Probably OK if you've got 20+ mins for a connection but that's not the way the times worked out. If we go on the SVR another time I think we'll go down to Droitwich from New Street and then back up to Kidderminster.

Depending where you are coming from originally you may also not lose much time; the biggest fuss would be changing at New Street.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

This was my theory when travelling with my partially disabled wife. There are two issues:
One is that Galton Bridge is confusing and you can easily end up on the wrong platform or level; even though I'd studied the layout beforehand I still got it wrong. However, I'm pretty sure that it would be OK next time.
More serious was the time it took for the lifts to arrive. We had 12 minutes to change, which seemed adequate, but after waiting ages for the first lift (maybe 5+ mins?), we were running short of time and the second lift took so long to arrive we gave up and ran up the stairs which was very painful and distressing for my wife.
Probably OK if you've got 20+ mins for a connection but that's not the way the times worked out. If we go on the SVR another time I think we'll go down to Droitwich from New Street and then back up to Kidderminster.

Droitwich has issues for the mobility impaired, it's the footbridge or quite a walk around via the road bridge with it's narrow footpath.

 

[eps200]

They really should have built this when the chance was there

http://www.arup.com/_assets/_download/download488.pdf

That was rejected on the grounds that many long distance passengers would have to change on to a full local service to get to the city centre.

As opposed to cuzon street?

 

[Old Hill Bank]

As opposed to cuzon street?

The new HS2 Station should be attached to Moor Street

http://www.centro.org.uk/about-us/news/2014/bill-petition/

 

[Mojo]

As opposed to cuzon street?

It's been said a million times before, but the main entrance to "Curzon Street" station will be right next to Moor St. Accordingly for much of the City centre it will be no further than New St, and much closer to the main business district!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

That whole area will be considered the city centre before much longer anyway, given the amount of development which is taking place down there.

 

[TSR :D]

Does anyone know if there's new news about the #2 proposal listed in the OP (Bordesley Chord)? All I've heard so far is that it's not going to happen any time soon.