Improving Northern Rail

[387star]

Northern Rail have in the past few years finally got their act together when it comes to improving train interiors

As this video illustrates they have done a great job on the ex arriva 156s in similar fashion to the ex north western examples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thFMcUFQZbI

The ex ATN pacer fleet has also been done to a decent standard as well as the class 323 and ex ARRIVA 150

I also believe the ex Alphaline and possibly Central trains 158s have been refurbished with new carpets etc as well... can anyone confirm?

That's on top of refurbishing the 144s and 155s

The units which are now most in need are arguably the ex north western 150s which have yet to receive new flooring and the ex north western 153s where no work has been done?

I am not sure if any work has been carried out on the ex london midland 150s

 

[47802]

I think minimum refurb of trains that were long overdue is a better description

As far as the 158's go that just appears to have been a retrim of the seats and new carpet if your lucky, that's not a refurb in my book.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Franchise uncertainty has not helped with the rolling stock refurbs.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Poor quality cosmetic refurbs

 

[387star]

Regarding 158s I think initially the ex FNW and WYPTE units which were reformed into three cars received the most work...

I recall a centre car of one three car oddly still having the old carpets and the ex PTE units still have red luggage strips

I am sure there was talk of the ex Alphaline units being properly refurbished ie new carpets throughout (not jus the strips like Central Trains fitted ) not sure if this extended to the ex CT vareity

The ex ATN 142s and 156s look very smart now in my opinion

 

[ess]

Why did the WYPTE Metro Train brand disappear?

 

[northwichcat]

Why did the WYPTE Metro Train brand disappear?

Well Metro no longer own any 144s or 155s (they sold them to Porterbrook) so if they were still in Metro colours then it would be an outdated livery. The brand does still appear on the 321/9s and 333s.

Services being announced as 'Metro Train' services at stations went when Northern took over. Not sure entirely why but for people not familiar with the local trains it makes sense to call them 'Northern Rail' services to coincide which what appears in timetables and journey planners. To me when you say a 'metro' service it implies a very frequent stopping service, which certainly isn't the case on the Penistone Line.

 

[FQ]

A great way to improve Northern Rail would be to make all the proposed Middlesbrough-Nunthorpe go to Battersby where they can turn around in order to connect it to a NYMR service to Whitby for holiday makers. Also since there will soon be 2 platforms at Whitby they could make a few of the extended Middlesbrough-Nunthorpe services to Whitby. Also they could put in a flyer service from Carlisle-Whitby and Saltburn calling at Carlisle, Hexham, Metro Centre, Newcastle Central, Sunderland, Hartlepool, Thornaby, Middlesburgh (Train split). Portion to Saltburn call at Redcar Central and Saltburn.
Portion to Whitby call at Nunthorpe, Battersby, Grosmont and Whitby.
Also they could make the line between Whitby and Grosmont double track and the line between Battersby and Middlesbrough double track.

An other good thing to do would be to make a 153 'shuttle' service between Morecambe and Heysham Port.
That way all the people who want to go to the isle of Mann can go Lancaster-Morecambe and then Morecambe-Heysham Port to go onto the Isle of Mann.

 

[Spaceflower]

How would running empty trains to Battersby (effectively taking a unit out of service for up to 30 mins every hour) be an improvement exactly? If there was a unit available for this could a better improvement not be found elsewhere? Rather easily I suspect

 

[FQ]

How would running empty trains to Battersby (effectively taking a unit out of service for up to 30 mins every hour) be an improvement exactly? If there was a unit available for this could a better improvement not be found elsewhere? Rather easily I suspect

Don't make it ECS. Just run it as a normal service train to connect to an NYMR service. Also the NYMR could make a shuttle of a train (after getting a few mainline ready) between Whitby and Battersby.

 

[WatcherZero]

Well Metro no longer own any 144s or 155s (they sold them to Porterbrook) so if they were still in Metro colours then it would be an outdated livery. The brand does still appear on the 321/9s and 333s.

Too add the Government made the disposal of WYPTE remaining rolling stock and financial contribution a condition of funding for Leeds station renovation.

 

[Haydn1971]

What that saying...

You can't polish a t.... Train !

Seriously ? The refurbs are a nice stopgap, but the Northern franchise is in serious need of some new/newer rolling stock. A mix of tram-trains, commuter units and semi fast express units - don't care where from, just stock that is comfy, clean, has wifi, heating/air con that works, toilets that don't make you wanna puke with the smell, a mix of table/airline seating, large lobbies with perch seats in every spare place and importantly enough seats/perch's for all fare paying passengers for even the high peak for trips over 20 minutes.

 

[Spaceflower]

Don't make it ECS. Just run it as a normal service train to connect to an NYMR service. Also the NYMR could make a shuttle of a train (after getting a few mainline ready) between Whitby and Battersby.

You've missed my point, if you extended it to Battersby, it might as well be an ECS.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Seriously ? The refurbs are a nice stopgap, but the Northern franchise is in serious need of some new/newer rolling stock. A mix of tram-trains, commuter units and semi fast express units - don't care where from, just stock that is comfy, clean, has wifi, heating/air con that works, toilets that don't make you wanna puke with the smell, a mix of table/airline seating, large lobbies with perch seats in every spare place and importantly enough seats/perch's for all fare paying passengers for even the high peak for trips over 20 minutes.

I thought that all the "rolling-stock ailments" that you describe above were part of the "specifications (} that Northern Rail have been a great pains to meet, which gives many of their units their iconic image that we have all grown to love....or not as may be the case..

 

[CheshireCrusty]

My eyes might have deceived me, but I am thought I saw a C3 carriage in Northern Rail livery at the Longsight depot yesterday!

 

[Manchester77]

My eyes might have deceived me, but I am thought I saw a C3 carriage in Northern Rail livery at the Longsight depot yesterday!

C3 would imply its a mark 3 and I thought there were no spare mark 3s? Are you sure it's not just a 23m MU coach which has been split? Could be a 323 trailer car as longsight maintains 323s

 

[FQ]

My eyes might have deceived me, but I am thought I saw a C3 carriage in Northern Rail livery at the Longsight depot yesterday!

The current thought is that Northern Rail are planning to run a Manchester-Burnley loco hauled set from the December timetable. I don't know what the traction would be but I guess it would be Top and Tail class 37s or a 37 with a DBSO.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The current thought is that Northern Rail are planning to run a Manchester-Burnley loco hauled set from the December timetable. I don't know what the traction would be but I guess it would be Top and Tail class 37s or a 37 with a DBSO.

That would be one certain way of ensuring the railway photographers being attracted should this occur and also many rail enthusiasts taking trips.

 

[Starmill]

That would be one certain way of ensuring the railway photographers being attracted should this occur and also many rail enthusiasts taking trips.

It would probably be revenue-positive for the first few weeks!!! I'm not massively interested in such things, but I'd happily pay the ~£10 to Burnley from here on a complete whim if they did it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

C3 would imply its a mark 3 and I thought there were no spare mark 3s? Are you sure it's not just a 23m MU coach which has been split? Could be a 323 trailer car as longsight maintains 323s

'C3' does NOT indicate it's a Mk3, it's a gauge classification: it indicates that the vehicle is 23m long- 153/155/156/158 and Mk.3 vehicles all have this marking on their inner-ends (or the 'new cab' end in the case of 153s). Therefore I'd suggest the vehicle seen was most likely the inner end of a 155/156/158 car. As much as I'd love loco-hauled stock to return to the area (and I'd also make a trip for it, despite my 'number collecting' days being long behind me!) I don't think this is a sign.

Edit: Apologies, M77. You did clarify this, as seen in the quote! Time for bed methinks...

 

[CheshireCrusty]

'C3' does NOT indicate it's a Mk3, it's a gauge classification: it indicates that the vehicle is 23m long- 153/155/156/158 and Mk.3 vehicles all have this marking on their inner-ends (or the 'new cab' end in the case of 153s). Therefore I'd suggest the vehicle seen was most likely the inner end of a 155/156/158 car. As much as I'd love loco-hauled stock to return to the area (and I'd also make a trip for it, despite my 'number collecting' days being long behind me!) I don't think this is a sign.

Edit: Apologies, M77. You did clarify this, as seen in the quote! Time for bed methinks...

Thank you all for this - now think it was a 158 mid car (if Northern have any of these) - definitely not a 323 - it had end doors and no pantograph. It was only a fleeting view as I was passing at speed. Nice thought though!

Please correct me if I wrong but didn't Northern used to operate a loco hauled service between Wales and Manchester Piccadilly before the reallocation of franchises.

 

[sprinterguy]

Thank you all for this - now think it was a 158 mid car (if Northern have any of these) - definitely not a 323 - it had end doors and no pantograph. It was only a fleeting view as I was passing at speed. Nice thought though!

Yes, Northern have eight class 158 centre cars.

Please correct me if I wrong but didn't Northern used to operate a loco hauled service between Wales and Manchester Piccadilly before the reallocation of franchises.

Northern didn't, but their predecessor First North Western operated loco-hauled services along the North Wales Coast from Manchester.

 

[transmanche]

Northern didn't, but their predecessor First North Western operated loco-hauled services along the North Wales Coast from Manchester.

And I'm sure that their other predecessor Arriva Trains Northern ran some loco-hauled services on the Settle & Carlisle for a while.

 

[sprinterguy]

And I'm sure that their other predecessor Arriva Trains Northern ran some loco-hauled services on the Settle & Carlisle for a while.

Indeed - There were top and tailed 37s with Arriva mark 2s on the S&C during 2004 (2003, too? I cannot clearly recall when they started).

 

[northwichcat]

Northern didn't, but their predecessor First North Western operated loco-hauled services along the North Wales Coast from Manchester.

A small number of loco-hauled workings continued after FNW lost North Wales services. At one point there was a FNW class 31 hauled mk2 set operating a 15:4x Chester-Stockport-Blackpool service which departed Manchester Oxford Rd 5 minutes ahead of an ATW Piccadilly-North Wales class 37 hauled loco-hauled set.

Northern have never operated loco-hauled unless you include the temporary DRS contracted service in Cumbria following the flooding.

 

[Beveridges]

Northern are anti-loco hauled and will not use it no matter what as they believe it does not fit in with their image

The last regular Loco-hauled were the ill-fated S&C 37's and Man Vic-Blackpool 31's, both ended during the weekend FNW lost the franchise.

 

[Beveridges]

Privatisation has transformed so many organisations that barely worked into organisations that are very good at pretending they do

That hits the nail on the head