Cambrian hourly service consultation

[Llanigraham]

Yes he holds surgeries, but none in Llani, and I've only ever seen him here once since he was elected, whereas Lemsip was always attending events all over his constituency.

 

[Gareth Marston]

But we know its happening anyway, where's he been hiding?

We'll I've got all the correspondence between Cambrian Rail Users Group and Central Trains from 1997 about extra services on the Cambrian still. I've got an audit trail on my contribution including notes from meetings with Ministers in Westminster and the Bay. The scrabbling to claim credit if/when it happens will be quite amusing, the ironic thing is that the Chair of Line Liaison Committee is a Labour Councillor from Shrewsbury.

 

[merlodlliw]

Yes he holds surgeries, but none in Llani, and I've only ever seen him here once since he was elected, whereas Lemsip was always attending events all over his constituency.

Perhaps the previous MP was overexposed in more ways than one which lost him his seat. If a new MP is not doing the rounds to get his name known,he too will get his comeuppance, Id have thought rail would have been top of his agenda,or one of them.

 

[impster]

Looking through old tweets from Glyn Davies he pretty much fobbed off the possibility of enhanced services back in November - due to lack of rolling stock. Seemed to me he'd given up on it.

Obviously he now thinks there's a possibility of more trains so he's straight down to ATW towers in Cardiff for a 'meeting' to justify a press release from his office.

"There We Are Then"

 

[Llanigraham]

I had a visit from the prospective Liberal candidate this morning and asked her about their views. She says that they are all in favour and want it introduced as soon as possible. She also said that there should be a statement from WAG very soon.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I had a visit from the prospective Liberal candidate this morning and asked her about their views. She says that they are all in favour and want it introduced as soon as possible. She also said that there should be a statement from WAG very soon.

We'll she ticks the boxes she's even been to a RUG meeting in Welshpool. Whether Montgomeryshire will elect another outsider remains to be seen, being a Welsh speaker from Wrexham is no guarantee of votes in mid wales.
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Perhaps the previous MP was overexposed in more ways than one which lost him his seat. If a new MP is not doing the rounds to get his name known,he too will get his comeuppance, Id have thought rail would have been top of his agenda,or one of them.

Bypasses around Newtown and Pant/Llaymynech seem to be priorities. They will magically bring in much wealth you know!

Elected by a thin majority for not being Lembit "I'm now a London celebrity"Opik, his sister in law who I worked with in 2010 thought his health wasn't up to it which might explain a lot.

 

[Llanigraham]

She said she'd met you, Gareth.

I wonder when Glynn will be following her?

 

[Rhydgaled]

c) The introduction of a scenic train service on a trial basis for summer 2014 is supported.

Interesting, is there time to get a new summer scenic service into this year's May timetable? Is an announcement due soon?

 

[johnnychips]

Interesting, is there time to get a new summer scenic service into this year's May timetable? Is an announcement due soon?

Will the 'scenic train' have different views than a normal train?

 

[merlodlliw]

Interesting, is there time to get a new summer scenic service into this year's May timetable? Is an announcement due soon?

This years timetable as gone to press,the electronic version will appear soon on the web.
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We'll she ticks the boxes she's even been to a RUG meeting in Welshpool. Whether Montgomeryshire will elect another outsider remains to be seen, being a Welsh speaker from Wrexham is no guarantee of votes in mid wales.

If shes from Wrexham, Aled Roberts North Wales AM will certainly have clued her up on rail matters, whats her name?

 

[berneyarms]

from http://shrewsburyaberystwythrailway.org/?page_id=533

3. Report on discussions between the Shrewsbury/Aberystwyth Rail Liaison Committee and the Welsh Assembly regarding the Cambrian Lines and an improved rail service.

3.1 The Secretary gave a full presentation on the current position with regard to the enhanced rail service provision and tourist trains on the Cambrian Coast.

A copy of the presentation is kept on file. (copy available by email upon request)

3.2 The presentation covered the following topics:

The history since July 2013

The survey and results

The recommendations to the Minister

The Implementation Group

3.3 The recommendations to the Minister are as follows:

a) The implementation of the extra morning and evening peak hour trains as set out in the timetables in the report (4 extra trains morning and 4extra trainsafternoon/evening) as soon as possible and no later than May 2015.

b) The implementation of the 1700 Fridays only Coast train from Machynllethto Barmouth extending its journey to Pwllheli each day. This recommendation to be implemented as soon as possible.

c) The introduction of a scenic train service on a trial basis for summer 2014 is supported.

d) To continue the Cambrian Lines Implementation Group to monitor the implementation of the new timetable and take forward the future recommendations to be implemented sometime between 2015 and 2018. Such reports and work to be completed by the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Railway Liaison Committee in consultation with the Cambrian Coast Line Liaison Committee.

e) To inform on the station improvements needed as the services on the Cambrian Lines are enhanced.

3.3 A statement from the Minister is expected following a meeting with the Implementation Group.

3.4 A copy of the reports (including that from the Implementation Group) will be posted on the new web site following publication by the Welsh Government. The web site is to be found at www.shrewsburyaberystwythrailway.org.uk

Does this mean 2 trains in each direction in the morning and two in each direction in the afternoon/evening?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Does this mean 2 trains in each direction in the morning and two in each direction in the afternoon/evening?

Yes in a nutshell
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This years timetable as gone to press,the electronic version will appear soon on the web.
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If shes from Wrexham, Aled Roberts North Wales AM will certainly have clued her up on rail matters, whats her name?

Jane Dodds
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Interesting, is there time to get a new summer scenic service into this year's May timetable? Is an announcement due soon?

It was believed the announcement would come by the end of March.
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Will the 'scenic train' have different views than a normal train?

Very much an idea from the Minister herself the heart of wales has a similar proposal on the cards.

 

[berneyarms]

That's not bad to be honest.

You could have hourly from Aberystwyth between 05:30 and 09:30, then 11:30, hourly from 13:30 to 17:30 and then 19:30.

From Shrewsbury it could be hourly 07:30 to 11:30, then 13:30 and then hourly again from 15:30 to 19:30 and then the 21:42.

Presumably there would then be extra short workings between Aberystwyth and Machynlleth for positioning purposes.

 

[Rich McLean]

That's not bad to be honest.

You could have hourly from Aberystwyth between 05:30 and 09:30, then 11:30, hourly from 13:30 to 17:30 and then 19:30.

From Shrewsbury it could be hourly 07:30 to 11:30, then 13:30 and then hourly again from 15:30 to 19:30 and then the 21:42.

Presumably there would then be extra short workings between Aberystwyth and Machynlleth for positioning purposes.

Couldn't these Extra services join and detach North Wales - Birmingham Int trains at Shrewsbury, in practice, they would arrive at Shrewsbury around the same time?

 

[Llanigraham]

Couldn't these Extra services join and detach North Wales - Birmingham Int trains at Shrewsbury, in practice, they would arrive at Shrewsbury around the same time?

And what then provides the return service on the Cambrian?

And why do people keep trying to complicate matters? In general what is wanted by us locals is a service to Shrewsbury where we can then connect to the services everywhere. In general we are not "Birminghamcentric" although some might want to go that way.

 

[strettonarms96]

And what then provides the return service on the Cambrian?

And why do people keep trying to complicate matters? In general what is wanted by us locals is a service to Shrewsbury where we can then connect to the services everywhere. In general we are not "Birminghamcentric" although some might want to go that way.

Indeed, joining and detaching units causes so may delays that have knock on effects to subsequent services. Aber - Shrews would be fine.

 

[berneyarms]

And what then provides the return service on the Cambrian?

And why do people keep trying to complicate matters? In general what is wanted by us locals is a service to Shrewsbury where we can then connect to the services everywhere. In general we are not "Birminghamcentric" although some might want to go that way.

Exactly - I think that the key has to be to get the extra services onto the Cambrian mainline.

 

[Rich McLean]

And what then provides the return service on the Cambrian?

And why do people keep trying to complicate matters? In general what is wanted by us locals is a service to Shrewsbury where we can then connect to the services everywhere. In general we are not "Birminghamcentric" although some might want to go that way.

The return would split from the in comming train ex Birmingham and split, with one portion on the Cambrian, the other to North wales

But I expect a shuttle will happen

 

[PHILIPE]

The return would split from the in comming train ex Birmingham and split, with one portion on the Cambrian, the other to North wales

But I expect a shuttle will happen

Any additionals would require an additional unit if they were tio work beyond Shrewsbury. We established this on the Forum a while ago when it was suggested they could work to Crewe.

 

[Rhydgaled]

The return would split from the in comming train ex Birmingham and split, with one portion on the Cambrian, the other to North wales

But I expect a shuttle will happen

Any additionals would require an additional unit if they were tio work beyond Shrewsbury. We established this on the Forum a while ago when it was suggested they could work to Crewe.

Unless working beyond Shrewsbury is done by portion working with the Birmingham - Holyhead service, assuming that is worked as 4-car east of Shrewsbury* anyway and the Cambrian service was to be hourly all day. Extending to Crewe yes would need more units, as would extending to Birmingham if there aren't existing portions to be made use of.

* but not between Shrewsbury and Holyhead

As for a shuttle to Shrewsbury, I think it was also established earlier in this topic that the timetable couldn't be fully clockface (without very tight turnrounds at Shrewsbury and/or Aberystwyth) if that is the case.

 

[berneyarms]

Unless working beyond Shrewsbury is done by portion working with the Birmingham - Holyhead service, assuming that is worked as 4-car east of Shrewsbury* anyway and the Cambrian service was to be hourly all day. Extending to Crewe yes would need more units, as would extending to Birmingham if there aren't existing portions to be made use of.

* but not between Shrewsbury and Holyhead

As for a shuttle to Shrewsbury, I think it was also established earlier in this topic that the timetable couldn't be fully clockface (without very tight turnrounds at Shrewsbury and/or Aberystwyth) if that is the case.

I don't think that was established at all given that the ERMTS running time improvements are not reflected in the current schedules.

I can't see how an hourly service could work unless it's clockface.

 

[transmanche]

I don't think that was established at all given that the ERMTS running time improvements are not reflected in the current schedules.

That's my feeling too.

 

[merlodlliw]

just tying in with WG Capitol funding to run the morning & evening Cambrian hourly service, I notice the save Mona Airport & Wagair(Anglesey to Cardiff) flights brigade are raising their heads, letters in the Daily Post Friday (not on the web) are concerned even thou less people are using the Airport, WG should not stop funding the two daily flights and Mona Airport,

 

[Squaddie]

just tying in with WG Capitol funding to run the morning & evening Cambrian hourly service, I notice the save Mona Airport & Wagair(Anglesey to Cardiff) flights brigade are raising their heads, letters in the Daily Post Friday (not on the web) are concerned even thou less people are using the Airport, WG should not stop funding the two daily flights and Mona Airport,

Different people have different priorities, Bob, and I'm sure those who would like to see the daily flights between Anglesey and Cardiff retained have perfectly valid reasons for doing so. Dismissing them as the "save Mona Airport & Wagair flights brigade" is really quite disrespectful, and clearly deliberately so: you can almost taste the contempt dripping from the terms you choose to use for Anglesey Airport and Citywing.

Let's try to keep this thread on topic, which is the desire to see an hourly service on the Cambrian line.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Different people have different priorities, Bob, and I'm sure those who would like to see the daily flights between Anglesey and Cardiff retained have perfectly valid reasons for doing so. Dismissing them as the "save Mona Airport & Wagair flights brigade" is really quite disrespectful, and clearly deliberately so: you can almost taste the contempt dripping from the terms you choose to use for Anglesey Airport and Highland Airways.

Let's try to keep this thread on topic, which is the desire to see an hourly service on the Cambrian line.

WG money will have to come from the the transport revenue budget so any potential ending of of a current funded scheme like the north south air link or the Fishguard trial are directly relevant.
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just tying in with WG Capitol funding to run the morning & evening Cambrian hourly service, I notice the save Mona Airport & Wagair(Anglesey to Cardiff) flights brigade are raising their heads, letters in the Daily Post Friday (not on the web) are concerned even thou less people are using the Airport, WG should not stop funding the two daily flights and Mona Airport,

Yes the numbers using it have dropped quite substantially.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I don't think that was established at all given that the ERMTS running time improvements are not reflected in the current schedules.

I can't see how an hourly service could work unless it's clockface.

Oh yes it was established.

The existing eastbound trains arrive Shrewsbury at xx:26, and the westbound trains depart at xx:27. Thus if the additional trains were to run at the same points in the other hour and didn't run through to Birmingham they would have only 1 minute to turn round at Shrewsbury.

Assuming that the existing trains continue to run through to Birmingham and that you cannot retime their path from Shrewsbury to Birmingham at all then you are stuck with the additional workings either arriving or departing Shrewsbury at a different point of the hour to the current services, unless the new services also run through to Birmingham (as portions on the Holyhead service).

 

[berneyarms]

Oh yes it was established.

The existing eastbound trains arrive Shrewsbury at xx:26, and the westbound trains depart at xx:27. Thus if the additional trains were to run at the same points in the other hour and didn't run through to Birmingham they would have only 1 minute to turn round at Shrewsbury.

Assuming that the existing trains continue to run through to Birmingham and that you cannot retime their path from Shrewsbury to Birmingham at all then you are stuck with the additional workings either arriving or departing Shrewsbury at a different point of the hour to the current services, unless the new services also run through to Birmingham (as portions on the Holyhead service).

You are forgetting however that the running times between Shrewsbury and Aberystwyth are yet to be accelerated to reflect the benefits of ERTMS, and it has been hinted that there may be a couple of other improvements too. Gareth has pointed out that trains are regularly arriving at Newtown well ahead of schedule, which reflects this.

It is therefore likely, that westbound trains could leave Shrewsbury at xx:30 (3 minutes later than currently), cross eastbound trains east of Fron, and at Talerddig and Dovey Junction, and arrive at Aberystwyth at xx:21 or so.

The return trains could leave Aberystwyth at xx:30 (9 minute turnaround) and arrive into Shrewsbury at xx:23, allowing a 7 minute turnaround if going back to Aberystwyth, and 10 minutes before going onto Birmingham.

I'm quite sure on that basis that it could be done on a clockface schedule.

 

[The Planner]

ERTMS is not reflected in running times....

 

[merlodlliw]

WG money will have to come from the the transport revenue budget so any potential ending of of a current funded scheme like the north south air link or the Fishguard trial are directly relevant.
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Yes the numbers using it have dropped quite substantially.

Indeed the WG transport revenue budget will have to fund Cambrian hourly trains,services up for renewal within the next 12 months or so,include the two you mention plus Gerald and Mona Airport which are very relevant in funding extra Cambrian services.

 

[strettonarms96]

Indeed the WG transport revenue budget will have to fund Cambrian hourly trains,services up for renewal within the next 12 months or so,include the two you mention plus Gerald and Mona Airport which are very relevant in funding extra Cambrian services.

so how likely is it that these extra cambrian services will be implemented? What is the general consensus from people? Much hope?

Also, when do you think that the service will realistically begin? Dec 14 or May 15?