Train guard swearing ?

[EssexGonzo]

That anyone finds the situation described by the OP acceptable or excusable given the context is incredible.

"The customer, sorry, passenger, was eavesdropping"......really? That cannot be a serious comment. Astonishing.

Even though a passenger wasn't being addressed it was clearly aimed at one or several, the implication that they were somehow irritating the speaker.

Furthermore, would this language at this volume with this tone of voice and inference towards the fee paying customers be acceptabke in a Bank, supermarket or restaurant?

No way - there would be uproar, complaints, Daily Mail articles and having worked in two of those industries I can tell you that some form of disciplinary action would be automatic.

But then I guess that us train passengers can't choose our supplier, the knowledge of which drives the apathy and culture of what is hopefully a minority of those working on the railway.

Certainly the majority on here don't seem to be like this bit I still can't believe those that think the behaviour was acceptable.

 

[Jones]

I was trying to explain to a customer, very prim lady, why her equipment wasn't working when she interrupted:

"Do you mean it's F****d?"

I think a little pee came out

 

[northern156]

It's a tad worrying when you're sat right behind the cab of a 170 (in 1st) and the driver shouts out very loudly "B***ocks!" when coming into a big station!

 

[455driver]

That anyone finds the situation described by the OP acceptable or excusable given the context is incredible.

"The customer, sorry, passenger, was eavesdropping"......really? That cannot be a serious comment. Astonishing.

Even though a passenger wasn't being addressed it was clearly aimed at one or several, the implication that they were somehow irritating the speaker.

Furthermore, would this language at this volume with this tone of voice and inference towards the fee paying customers be acceptabke in a Bank, supermarket or restaurant?

No way - there would be uproar, complaints, Daily Mail articles and having worked in two of those industries I can tell you that some form of disciplinary action would be automatic.

But then I guess that us train passengers can't choose our supplier, the knowledge of which drives the apathy and culture of what is hopefully a minority of those working on the railway.

Certainly the majority on here don't seem to be like this bit I still can't believe those that think the behaviour was acceptable.

I take it from this post that you were there and heard exactly what was said and exactly what tone and volume was used by the person!

If not then you are just making assumptions on something you read on a forum and actually know very little about it which, and lets be honest, isnt exactly unusual for a passenger is it!

 

[transmanche]

If not then you are just making assumptions on something you read on a forum and actually know very little about it which, and lets be honest, isnt exactly unusual for a passenger is it!

Or for railway staff...

In general, bad language is something to be kept in the "staffroom"[*] and not on the "shop floor" - no matter what the industry. And, in general, managers will not be happy if bad language is used within the earshot of customers - again no matter what the industry.

As for me, unless it's aimed at me, I'm not bothered about an inadvertent sweary. But I don't enjoy travelling when other passengers use lots of bad language whilst talking at high volume. Not because I'm offended, but because it makes for an unpleasant atmosphere.

* Even then, in many businesses it will still be deemed unacceptable.

 

[Katketty]

Staff are human after all and everyone has a wee slip up sometimes. That isn't to say I appreciate staff swearing in an area where passengers could be within earshot or passengers swearing excessively themselves but sometimes it happens.

I was spotting at Glasgow Central one weekend and despite the Network Rail reception being closed, I was told to go up and get a visitor's pass anyway as there was always someone about. As the door opened, the member of staff I was with got a "warm welcome" shall we say from his colleagues. They were having a laugh in a quiet area usually separate from the public during a time when it should have been closed so I thought nothing of it!

The time I had to listen to the conductor getting a bollocking from his wife on the phone and he eventually lost it, was a little more awkward for me and the other passengers but ultimately amusing nevertheless

 

[badger1badger]

That anyone finds the situation described by the OP acceptable or excusable given the context is incredible.

"The customer, sorry, passenger, was eavesdropping"......really? That cannot be a serious comment. Astonishing.

Even though a passenger wasn't being addressed it was clearly aimed at one or several, the implication that they were somehow irritating the speaker.

Furthermore, would this language at this volume with this tone of voice and inference towards the fee paying customers be acceptabke in a Bank, supermarket or restaurant?

No way - there would be uproar, complaints, Daily Mail articles and having worked in two of those industries I can tell you that some form of disciplinary action would be automatic.

But then I guess that us train passengers can't choose our supplier, the knowledge of which drives the apathy and culture of what is hopefully a minority of those working on the railway.

Certainly the majority on here don't seem to be like this bit I still can't believe those that think the behaviour was acceptable.

Well written and well said -I think everyone on here agrees that it is wrong, I have not taken the matter any further

Is it best to leave it or take it higher

Any thoughts ?

 

[razor89]

Leave it.

Customer facing staff are NOT robots, they have lives and problems just like everybody else.

There are bigger things happening in the world right now than somebody swearing nearby.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Leave it.

Customer facing staff are NOT robots, they have lives and problems just like everybody else.

There are bigger things happening in the world right now than somebody swearing nearby.

Well written and well said!

 

[yorkie]

Leave it.

Customer facing staff are NOT robots, they have lives and problems just like everybody else.

There are bigger things happening in the world right now than somebody swearing nearby.

would this apply to everyone in a customer facing role, as I think if some people tried to argue that, it wouldn't get them very far with their employer?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

would this apply to everyone in a customer facing role, as I think if some people tried to argue that, it wouldn't get them very far with their employer?

We have all sworn while at work without sometimes even realising we have done it. We are human and are in a stressful job (our choosing I know) and sometimes we say things that maybe we shouldn't. Its not as if he is going up to someone and calling them a f****** w****** or similar. Just seems to be blown out of proportion to me.

 

[harry42]

It's a tad worrying when you're sat right behind the cab of a 170 (in 1st) and the driver shouts out very loudly "B***ocks!" when coming into a big station!

 

[razor89]

would this apply to everyone in a customer facing role, as I think if some people tried to argue that, it wouldn't get them very far with their employer?

I was simply pointing out the triviality of the situation.

If an employee found themselves under investigation by their employer for this sort of incident, I'd suggest they apologise, promise they won't do it again and state any mitigating factors (stress/ personal problems etc). Then (and I know this is wishful thinking these days) the employer, as long as they don't have previous, would let them off with a 'slapped wrist'.

 

[GB]

That anyone finds the situation described by the OP acceptable or excusable given the context is incredible.

"The customer, sorry, passenger, was eavesdropping"......really? That cannot be a serious comment. Astonishing.

Even though a passenger wasn't being addressed it was clearly aimed at one or several, the implication that they were somehow irritating the speaker.

Furthermore, would this language at this volume with this tone of voice and inference towards the fee paying customers be acceptabke in a Bank, supermarket or restaurant?

No way - there would be uproar, complaints, Daily Mail articles and having worked in two of those industries I can tell you that some form of disciplinary action would be automatic.

But then I guess that us train passengers can't choose our supplier, the knowledge of which drives the apathy and culture of what is hopefully a minority of those working on the railway.

Certainly the majority on here don't seem to be like this bit I still can't believe those that think the behaviour was acceptable.

It gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling to know that you and others are all perfect at your jobs and never make any kind of mistakes...well done! Or is it a case of, well its the railways, I pay your wages so its fair game?

 

[Antman]

Well written and well said -I think everyone on here agrees that it is wrong, I have not taken the matter any further

Is it best to leave it or take it higher

Any thoughts ?

I would most certainly report it, if it was a one off incident he'll probably get nothing more than a gentle reminder about professional standards etc

Leave it.

Customer facing staff are NOT robots, they have lives and problems just like everybody else.

There are bigger things happening in the world right now than somebody swearing nearby.

They might not be robots but is it unreasonable to expect certain standards of behaviour from staff whilst on duty? Not only railway staff but shop staff, police officers, NHS staff etc etc

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I think that closest I have gotten to swearing within earshot of the public is "oh balls!", but it's not been at high volume, basically a whisper. I have been know to utter other words in times of mishap, at a low volume, but so far 'fudge' and 'sugar' have failed to incur a complaint.

 

[ExRes]

I can't really see what the problem is, our entire culture has been taken over by drunken and anti social behaviour, a couldn't care less attitude toward anyone who doesn't agree with an individuals personal agenda and their way of showing it, from schoolkids onward no conversation seems possible without a mouthful of abuse, parents effing and blinding at their kids and vice versa, film and TV scripts with hardly a space for non abusive language but then we 'expect' a different level of behaviour because we are a customer ?, no way, people have made their beds and will now just have to put up with ignorance and foul mouthed abuse as a normal way of life and stop the hypocrisy of pretending to be hurt and 'outraged'

 

[EssexGonzo]

It gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling to know that you and others are all perfect at your jobs and never make any kind of mistakes...well done! Or is it a case of, well its the railways, I pay your wages so its fair game?

Try reading the post again and find the word "perfect".

My point was less about the original guard and more about the fact that so many seem to think swearing acceptable in a service industry in front of customers. It's not. Simple. Black and white.

Should the OP do anything about it? Of course not but this thread has been a useful insight into the railway culture. As I said in my original post, and based on the large number of railway staff I see on a daily basis, hopefully a minority and not representative.

 

[Greenback]

Try reading the post again and find the word "perfect".

My point was less about the original guard and more about the fact that so many seem to think swearing acceptable in a service industry in front of customers. It's not. Simple. Black and white.

It's not acceptable, but it happens, you can overhear staff having a quiet conversation and swearing just about everywhere you go. I've heard staff using inappropriate language in hospitals, schools, pub-restaurants, and supermarkets. The last occasion was on the fish counter at Morrison's. Both staffw ere well back from the counte rbut I over heard one of them call one of his colleagues a ******* **** for dropping him in the ****. I felt more embarrassed about eavesdropping than anything else.

Should the OP do anything about it? Of course not but this thread has been a useful insight into the railway culture. As I said in my original post, and based on the large number of railway staff I see on a daily basis, hopefully a minority and not representative.

It is no more railway culture to swear in front of passengers than it is the culture anywhere else. As people keep saying it happens, because people are human. I wouldn't expect any human being to be flawless, and that is all other contributors have been trying to point out.

 

[KA4C]

Leave it.

Customer facing staff are NOT robots, they have lives and problems just like everybody else.

There are bigger things happening in the world right now than somebody swearing nearby.

And presumably those who occupy the morale high ground and believe that staff who let a swear word slip out in public should be disciplined, no matter what, will be equally happy to see those many more passengers who swear directly at staff prosecuted under section 5 public order act?

Just saying, like

 

[razor89]

presumably those who occupy the morale high ground and believe that staff who Let a swear word slip out in public should be disciplined, no matter what, will be equally happy to see those many more passengers who swear directly at staff prosecuted under section 5 public order act?

Just saying, like

Indeed. In fact the passenger would simply have to swear, doesnt have to be directed at anyone.

Believing in one but not the other would be hypocrisy.

 

[meridian2]

And presumably those who occupy the morale high ground and believe that staff who let a swear word slip out in public should be disciplined, no matter what, will be equally happy to see those many more passengers who swear directly at staff prosecuted under section 5 public order act?

Just saying, like

I agree.
However, in this case, there is a degree of overreaction to those who are arguing for some sort of disciplinary action against the guard. All that's needed is a sorry, and then move on. If I were a guard and blurted out an obscenity and then saw it splashed across half a dozen railway related forums, I would be mortified and worried that my employer would judge comments from these 'armchair-critics' as valid and then judge the situation accordingly. I've seen many people on this thread play judge, jury and executioner based on this incident and that, to me, is deeply unfair. So I ask, what was the reasoning behind making this incident public from the OP?

 

[transmanche]

So I ask, what was the reasoning behind making this incident public from the OP?

It was "made public" by being reported in the press, not by the OP.

Edit: Apologies, I've got confused between two very similar threads. I was thinking of the the other thread, with the video clip of an (off-duty?) staff member making an inappropriate announcement.

 

[455driver]

Maybe anyone who swears within earshot of a customer should be dragged in front of their manager to state their case and should then be given enough time off work to sort out their problems, about 3 months ought to be enough. Then when no trains are running due to lack of staff (as we all have problems somewhere in our lives) people will realise just how pathetic this is!

It happens, was it right? No of course not but as for anything else,

Staff are subjected to daily verbal abuse and are expected to brush it off but when one of those staff is overheard swearing they should be reprimanded?
get a life will you! :roll:

As for using section 5 because some numpty swears at railstaff, there are not enough Police to deal with 20% of them never mind the rest.

 

[transmanche]

Maybe anyone who swears within earshot of a customer should be dragged in front of their manager to state their case and should then be given enough time off work to sort out their problems, about 3 months ought to be enough. Then when no trains are running due to lack of staff (as we all have problems somewhere in our lives) people will realise just how pathetic this is!

Over-reacting much? :roll:

 

[KA4C]

I agree.
However, in this case, there is a degree of overreaction to those who are arguing for some sort of disciplinary action against the guard. All that's needed is a sorry, and then move on. If I were a guard and blurted out an obscenity and then saw it splashed across half a dozen railway related forums, I would be mortified and worried that my employer would judge comments from these 'armchair-critics' as valid and then judge the situation accordingly. I've seen many people on this thread play judge, jury and executioner based on this incident and that, to me, is deeply unfair. So I ask, what was the reasoning behind making this incident public from the OP?

Quite agree

 

[Antman]

Indeed. In fact the passenger would simply have to swear, doesnt have to be directed at anyone.

Believing in one but not the other would be hypocrisy.

Hardly hypocrisy................more a case of two wrongs not making a right.

My brother in law is a copper, he gets sworn at regularly (a sad reflection on todays society) but if he were to swear back..................yes you've guessed it, he'll be on the carpet if somebody complains. It's all about professional standards in whatever job you are doing, I'm sure I'm not the only one to despair at the dumbing down of standards in todays society and trying to defend this foul mouthed railwayman is another example of this. I'm not suggesting he should be sacked............but a word in his ear certainly wouldn't go amiss.

 

[swj99]

Something that hasn't been bought up yet- swearing on the railway is actually illegal. It's specified in the byelaws.

6. Unacceptable behaviour

(1)No person shall use any threatening, abusive, obscene or offensive language on the railway.

Imagine if everyone who did this went and handed themselves into the police. There wouldn't be enough cells for them all, and the magistrates court lists would be filled up for months.

I think there is a time and a place for swearing. But I suppose it's all about context. For example, I once worked with a couple of people who used to jokingly swear at each other. The dialogue was predictable, one would quietly say, "You f***** p****", and the other would reply, "You f***** c*** !".
As their shift wore on, the ferocity of their voices became louder. It was one of those 'you had to be there' moments, but it cracked people up. However, if a member of the public, unaware of the fact that it was a joke, was to hear it, I'm sure they'd have been very concerned, offended or scared.

 

[455driver]

Over-reacting much? :roll:

No more than some of the other posts on here!

If you cant beat em, join em!

 

[meridian2]

It was "made public" by being reported in the press, not by the OP.

Same difference; it's an incident that is not in the public interest as it is potentially damaging to someone's job.