Notice of intention to prosecute, Help please

[TSZX]

Hi,

I made a mistake on 25th of Feb by buying a discounted day travel card without having a valid young person card. I was asked to present a valid ticket by a revenue protection inspector on my journey from London bridge to East Croydon.

I didn't have a valid young person card and I lied to say that I left it at home.

I have however offered to pay any penalty charges but the inspector told me to stop saying anything and asked for a few questions relating to my journey. I received a letter from First Capital connect a couple of days ago. The letter asked me to response to the incident. Details of offence: @On the above date you were stopped and questioned in regard to the following alleged offence: Entering a train for the purpose of travelling without a ticket entitling travel.

I was asked whether i would pay the difference in fare when we reached east croydon and I said I couldn't understand your question and the inspector said I only need a yes or no answer from you. I said if you didnt stop me than i would have realised that I have been using the wrong ticket. I said sorry to the inspector and offered to pay any excess fare. The inspector told me that I dont need to do anything and just wait for a letter. I received a slip from the inspector which says if fail to carry, passenger to send a copy of their season ticket within 14 days to the address below. Failure to do so may lead to prosecution.

I deeply regret for my action and I would really appreciate some help.
What should I write in my response to them? Should I phone them?

 

[swt_passenger]

I received a slip from the inspector which says if fail to carry, passenger to send a copy of their season ticket within 14 days to the address below. Failure to do so may lead to prosecution.

It will be a generic form. A season ticket holder (only) has certain additional safeguards if he/she can produce his in date season after the event, but that bit doesn't apply to railcard holders, as in your situation.

 

[najaB]

Hi,
I made a mistake on 25th of Feb by buying a discounted day travel card without having a valid young person card.

In what way could this be described as a mistake? From my experience, most ticket vending machines require you to specifically choose to add a railcard.

I was asked to present a valid ticket by a revenue protection inspector on my journey from London bridge to East Croydon.

There you go, it wasn't a mistake - it was a gamble and you lost.

I didn't have a valid young person card and I lied to say that I left it at home.

I'd say that was your last chance to avoid the consequences of your deliberate choice to avoid paying the correct fare. You should have owned up to what you had done and put yourself at the mercy of the RPI. By lying you gave up any chance of expecting any leniency.

I deeply regret for my action and I would really appreciate some help.
What should I write in my response to them? Should I phone them?

At this stage, I would suggest that your best course of action is probably stop digging and take whatever is coming to you.

 

[MyFriendMary]

And, one would suspect, if you do not own the railcard that your ticket (and yourself) claimed to own they may push it for repeated attempts to have travelled without doing so.

Did you have to present several other, previously used, tickets to the inspector?

 

[TSZX]

Ok, I made a mistake and I regret it. I am student with no income and I tried to save a little money and obviously got punished for it. So I have learned my lesson and I come here for some help.

 

[island]

It seems undoubtedly clear that you committed an offence by using a discounted ticket which you were not entitled to use. The next question is what do you want to get out of this? First Capital Connect will probably, but is not obliged to, drop the matter on receipt of a financial payment. The amount in question is not likely to be much less than £100.

 

[najaB]

Ok, I made a mistake and I regret it... ...and I come here for some help.

Unfortunately, in this case there isn't much you can do other than accept whatever FCC chose to do. It's pretty much an open and shut case of attempted fare evasion.

 

[jon0844]

Not even 'attempted' surely?

 

[TSZX]

Well, I am happy to pay a fine which I deserve, so should I phone them up ? Or reply back in writing? What should I say to avoid court order?

 

[We The People]

Hi,

You must try and get some sort of legal help (like a solicitor) to ring on your behalf, if you know anyone in that field of work that will help your case ring them ASAP and ask them to represent you, if you can get some sort of legal help, you ring the number on the latest letter you got(prosecutions dept number), tell them that who ever you have got to represent you legally will speak on your behalf for this case. Get them(your legal help) to ring that number and negotiate a deal, usually..(but not guaranteed) they will ask for you to pay their legal costs and the fare you "dodged" which usually amounts to between £130-140 and when you do that, the case will get dropped and most importantly..you avoid a criminal record.

This is your best shot of avoiding a criminal record, because if you don't do this they will prosecute you not matter how much you plead with them with written correspondents you send them.

I hope this helps, and I'm sorry to be blunt,but unless you do the advice I gave you, you will get a criminal record for this.

 

[najaB]

Not even 'attempted' surely?

Well, it wasn't successful.

 

[cuccir]

To summarize what some have said above - this is a fairly clear case. So in responding you should apologise, stick to the facts, and emphasise that you won't do this again. IF you're lucky FCC will take the easy option of asking you to pay an out of court settlement that will probably be over £100 but under £300 pounds, and close to the bottom end of that range. If you then do this, that will end the matter. Equally, the may chose to prosecute anyway and I suspect that they will already have all the evidence that they need to do this.

 

[MyFriendMary]

And they may use the letter as an admission of guilt in court if they decide they do not want to settle the matter outside of it. Although it is unlikely they wouldn't want to take the easy option.

Just respond to them over the phone, confirm in writing/email any 'deal' made and hope for the best. But, remember, they are in no obligation to settle the matter in favour for you and are fully within their rights to push on for a criminal conviction.

 

[jon0844]

Well, it wasn't successful.

No, but I'd see it as the offence being committed once you bought the ticket (knowing you didn't have a railcard) and then set foot on railway property, or more importantly, crossed the yellow line marking a penalty fare zone with what is a totally invalid ticket - and effectively meaning you have NO ticket at all.

The offence was still committed. Of course, the OP might have got away with it.

YPRC tickets are nearly always set to 'seek assistance' on the barriers with FCC and you'll be asked to show the railcard when trying to leave those stations. Thus, it's not worth anyone else thinking of doing it (and hoping to just say that they left it at home when caught).

 

[TSZX]

Thank you for your advices.

I tried to ring FCC up on 02079229061 today but I was sent to answering machine all the time, has anyone successfully talked to FCC using this number? Are there alternative numbers?

 

[najaB]

No, but I'd see it as the offence being committed once you bought the ticket (knowing you didn't have a railcard) and then set foot on railway property, or more importantly, crossed the yellow line marking a penalty fare zone with what is a totally invalid ticket - and effectively meaning you have NO ticket at all.

Point taken. The fare evasion happened, the attempt was to avoid detection.

I agree with the advice given above: the OP should get someone with legal experience to deal with any further correspondence with FCC and aim to get them to agree to an out of court settlement. If it proceeds as far as court, then a guilty verdict is pretty much inevitable.

 

[island]

YPRC tickets are nearly always set to 'seek assistance' on the barriers with FCC and you'll be asked to show the railcard when trying to leave those stations. Thus, it's not worth anyone else thinking of doing it (and hoping to just say that they left it at home when caught).

For what little it's worth, neither London Bridge nor East Croydon are FCC stations.

 

[jon0844]

For what little it's worth, neither London Bridge nor East Croydon are FCC stations.

Fair point. I wonder if the gates are still set up like that. I don't think it's just FCC that set the gates to reject certain tickets (YPRC, child tickets etc).

I had a Gold Card discounted ticket 'rejected' at Welwyn Garden City last week. Forgot to check the error code, but I suspect this was also to enable someone to ask to see my Gold Card.

 

[hassaanhc]

Fair point. I wonder if the gates are still set up like that. I don't think it's just FCC that set the gates to reject certain tickets (YPRC, child tickets etc).

I had a Gold Card discounted ticket 'rejected' at Welwyn Garden City last week. Forgot to check the error code, but I suspect this was also to enable someone to ask to see my Gold Card.

I've had my YP discounted paper Travelcard rejected at NR barriers at Victoria, with check of railcard before being allowed through

 

[jon0844]

I do wonder if there should be posters to explain that some tickets will require a manual inspection.

I've seen children get quite confused, and even somewhat embarrassed (given people huffing and puffing behind) when their ticket is rejected. Some might also get rather frightened that - when leaving - they're going to get into trouble as their ticket isn't valid or something.

And a poster that says anyone with a railcard may be asked to present it could also help deter people from buying a discounted ticket in the first place.

 

[bb21]

Thank you for your advices.

I tried to ring FCC up on 02079229061 today but I was sent to answering machine all the time, has anyone successfully talked to FCC using this number? Are there alternative numbers?

You will need to keep trying. AFAIK this is the correct number but it is not easy to get through to speak to someone.
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This is your best shot of avoiding a criminal record, because if you don't do this they will prosecute you not matter how much you plead with them with written correspondents you send them.

That's terrible advice. While I agree that seeking legal advice is a good idea, it is also possible for the matter to be resolved without involving solicitors. It is by no means "they will prosecute you no matter how much you plead".

I hope this helps, and I'm sorry to be blunt,but unless you do the advice I gave you, you will get a criminal record for this.

Criminal record? There is no mention of a RoRA prosecution yet.

The letter from FCC suggests a potential Byelaw prosection, if anything.

 

[Darandio]

I hope this helps, and I'm sorry to be blunt,but unless you do the advice I gave you, you will get a criminal record for this.

And on what authority do you have to give out such crap advice?

At times, this section of the forum can really be a helpful resource to those who genuinely need it. Scaring people off by talking b******s doesn't really help.

 

[455driver]

Scaring people off by talking b******s doesn't really help.

Plus the fact that that is my job!

 

[Darandio]

Plus the fact that that is my job!

Good point!

 

[We The People]

I see certain people in the thread think some of my advice is "Terrible" and "Crap"

That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm tellin' you..They will not negotiate with him directly with an out of court settlement, why would they if it's such a "open & shut case", all these company's are ruthless in this process and most of the personnel in these departments are jobsworth's, I'm not trying to scaremonger anyone here.

I'm just outlining the most likely outcome that will happen unless they get legal advice. Think it's terrible advice?? Let's see how it plays out after the OP gets through/writes to them.

 

[Greenback]

I see certain people in the thread think some of my advice is "Terrible" and "Crap"

That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm tellin' you..They will not negotiate with him directly with an out of court settlement, why would they if it's such a "open & shut case", all these company's are ruthless in this process and most of the personnel in these departments are jobsworth's, I'm not trying to scaremonger anyone here.

I'm just outlining the most likely outcome that will happen unless they get legal advice. Think it's terrible advice?? Let's see how it plays out after the OP gets through/writes to them.

There have been many threads on this forum in which people have secured out of court settlements without the use of legal professionals. Why would the TOC negotiaite with them? Well, if the TOC can receive more money by way of a settlement, it makes sense for them, don't you agree? Of course, they do not have to agree, and with serial fare evaders they may wish to make an example of someone to act as a deterrent to others.

Your opinions on the company's and their employees are interesting. They don't seem to accord with some of the reports we recive on this forum. Have you read some of the older threads in this section? If not, you may find it beneficial.

Perhaps you may like to share your legal background, experience or anything else that is relevant to support your claims? Members of the forum may then be able to make a more informed decision on the quality of your advice!

 

[island]

I see certain people in the thread think some of my advice is "Terrible" and "Crap"

That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm tellin' you..They will not negotiate with him directly with an out of court settlement, why would they if it's such a "open & shut case", all these company's are ruthless in this process and most of the personnel in these departments are jobsworth's, I'm not trying to scaremonger anyone here.

I'm just outlining the most likely outcome that will happen unless they get legal advice. Think it's terrible advice?? Let's see how it plays out after the OP gets through/writes to them.

Can you please explain how, despite your assertions, we have numerous reports in this forum of people securing out of court settlements without professional advice?

 

[Flamingo]

I see certain people in the thread think some of my advice is "Terrible" and "Crap"

Add "Bollix" to that...

 

[bb21]

all these company's are ruthless in this process and most of the personnel in these departments are jobsworth's

I think this sentence has told me all I need to know about how objective your "advice" is. :roll:

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I see certain people in the thread think some of my advice is "Terrible" and "Crap"

You may include me.

. . . . but I'm tellin' you..They will not negotiate with him directly with an out of court settlement

I believe that they will.

. . . all these company's are ruthless in this process and most of the personnel in these departments are jobsworth's, I'm not trying to scaremonger anyone here.

That is not my experience, and I have experience of negotiating with a few TOC's Prosecutions personnel.

I'm just outlining the most likely outcome that will happen unless they get legal advice.

You are not.
You are mistaken if you believe that; misinformed if you have been told that; unbalanced if you have based your 'advice' on a personal experience.

The prosecutors that I am aquainted with I would describe as nice people, and 'nice' is not a word I use freely.

Think it's terrible advice??

Yes.
Though I struggle to interpret your posts as 'advice' but rather as 'opinion'.