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Railway lines can create bad first impressions

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anti-pacer

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Horror? Hardly Stephen King territory is it?

Loads of cuttings in the London area that have gardens backing on to them. Take a trip on the North London or Goblin next time you're down there. You'd think you were up North it's so horrific.

Well, if and when Network Rail come to clean these places up, they may find the cost and manpower needed quite "horrific".

My "horror stories" was just a choice of words, but in context I appreciate it's not.

Maybe you could have appreciated that it was just a choice of words on my part.
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I would tend to agree with you here, with your suggestion of having long term unemployed people and perhaps some people who are undergoing court ordered community punishments/community service, doing voluntary clean up operations and other useful community work for the local council, like you suggest perhaps for one day a week. Doing these do look good on your files.

I have been in that position, so I do know what's like.

I think that there may be health and safety issues that would have to be looked into for certain types of voluntary work/litter picking on railway land, especially in 3rd rail areas.

Funny when I suggested similiar measures, I was berated by many of you on here.
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Why do you deem it impossible? Bradford had a perfectly good retail / pleasure centre, until a combination of the Westfield fiasco & a disproportionate amount of investment went 9 miles east. But Bradford has a large catchment area, that is considerably closer to it's centre than Leeds, as well as frequent bus & rail links into the centre from many of these. What it needs is this centre now under construction to be completed (currently due late 2015), and a rethink of Bradford council's policies which is also starting to happen. And hopefully the Westfield centre will be a slightly better design than the rather appalling Trinity centre in Leeds, which as we discovered days after it initially opened forms a perfectly designed wind tunnel if the wind comes in from a certain direction (what is it with Leeds architects & wind, they constantly seem to clash?), so it may be part of the catalist for a revival in Bradford. It will never compete with Leeds, but it doesn't need to.

What I hope to see is Bradford working the tourist angle better, promoting the city as a gateway to the Pennines & Dales. There's lots of talk in the tourist trade of Yorkshire fast become a vogue place to visit (especially once the Tour De France passes through), and there's been rave reviews in places like Lonely Planet & even the NY Times. So there is scope for Bradford to become successful, with good retail facilities for it's residents & maybe more cultural facilities for visitors passing through.

Bradford's catchment area in places is also the same as Leeds, save for the south west of Bradford (Calderdale area mainly).

It takes only minutes longer to reach Leeds from places on the Airedale line than it does Bradford, and to be honest, why would anyone choose Bradford over Leeds for shopping, even when Westfield is built. Leeds is adding to its retail portfolio with Victoria Gate, and Trinity alone is due to bump Leeds up the Experian retail rankings. Trinity, personally I like. It's similar to Cabot Circus in Bristol, although I do appreciate and understand peoples weather concerns due to its open design.

Bradford needs to sort out its retail offering, for sure, but lets face it, Westfield is hardly going to boost Bradford to the extent Leeds has experienced. Can you honestly tell me that places like Darley Street aren't going to suffer the empty shop syndrome that is often the case when new shopping centres open. It's happened in Wakefield, it's happened in Derby, so it will certainly happen in Bradford.

The city needs a decent selection of shops, but it should play on other strengths, such as it's "curry scene", its wool history. It could also improve the National Media Museum, but it needs to sort out the Odeon building, and just tidy the city centre up a bit. It's proximity to Bronte Country, the Pennines, Yorkshire Dales, etc should help.

Bradford needs something "different", but I'm just not sure what it could sustain. Hebden Bridge has done well at becoming a bit "alternative", but copying that wouldn't work I don't think.

I really don't know what the answer is, but another generic shopping centre will only marginally help.
 
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47802

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Well, if and when Network Rail come to clean these places up, they may find the cost and manpower needed quite "horrific".

My "horror stories" was just a choice of words, but in context I appreciate it's not.

Maybe you could have appreciated that it was just a choice of words on my part.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Funny when I suggested similiar measures, I was berated by many of you on here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Bradford's catchment area in places is also the same as Leeds, save for the south west of Bradford (Calderdale area mainly).

It takes only minutes longer to reach Leeds from places on the Airedale line than it does Bradford, and to be honest, why would anyone choose Bradford over Leeds for shopping, even when Westfield is built. Leeds is adding to its retail portfolio with Victoria Gate, and Trinity alone is due to bump Leeds up the Experian retail rankings. Trinity, personally I like. It's similar to Cabot Circus in Bristol, although I do appreciate and understand peoples weather concerns due to its open design.

Bradford needs to sort out its retail offering, for sure, but lets face it, Westfield is hardly going to boost Bradford to the extent Leeds has experienced. Can you honestly tell me that places like Darley Street aren't going to suffer the empty shop syndrome that is often the case when new shopping centres open. It's happened in Wakefield, it's happened in Derby, so it will certainly happen in Bradford.

The city needs a decent selection of shops, but it should play on other strengths, such as it's "curry scene", its wool history. It could also improve the National Media Museum, but it needs to sort out the Odeon building, and just tidy the city centre up a bit. It's proximity to Bronte Country, the Pennines, Yorkshire Dales, etc should help.

Bradford needs something "different", but I'm just not sure what it could sustain. Hebden Bridge has done well at becoming a bit "alternative", but copying that wouldn't work I don't think.

I really don't know what the answer is, but another generic shopping centre will only marginally help.

Indeed I live 5 miles south of Bradford and 7 miles west of Leeds, I am 52 and I have lived here for about 40 of those 52 years, during which time I doubt have purposely visited the centre of Bradford more than a dozen times, while the times I have visited Leeds are too numerous to count.
 

TUC

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I have just caught a train from Leeds to Bradford Forster Square, and heard someone with a Southern accent say to her travelling companion, "Oh my god, look at the state of this place, rubbish everywhere"!

She wasn't wrong, it was a cesspit of filth. Cans, bottles, plastic, paper, cardboard, you name it, up embankments, next to the track. Lots of the stuff!

I got talking to her and it turns out she was up here on business and it was her first time in Yorkshire. She asked if it was all like this, so I reassured her that indeed it was and she was about to enter an utter cr*phole of a city.

...

Railways, whilst vital, can create negative first impressions of places. Yes OK Bradford is a dump, but this doesn't help.

With attitudes like yours I'm not surprised Bradford has problems. Cities needs residents who are proud of where they live and will fight to improve it, not ones who'll just agree with outsiders in slagging it off.
 

anti-pacer

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With attitudes like yours I'm not surprised Bradford has problems. Cities needs residents who are proud of where they live and will fight to improve it, not ones who'll just agree with outsiders in slagging it off.

Oh yeah, Bradford's got lots of them! Even the council have given up fighting for it!

Also, it's not an "attitude", it's an "opinion". Go there and see for yourself!
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Sort of related to this topic. Just a few miles further North, the North Yorkshire town of Skipton has just been named the best place to live in England. :)
 

anti-pacer

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I assumed that Wakefield Kirkgate's immediate external environments were the basis for many of his novels...<(

Haha, you'd think so, but if it was, it's failing to bring the tourists in! ??????
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sort of related to this topic. Just a few miles further North, the North Yorkshire town of Skipton has just been named the best place to live in England. :)

These things always make me laugh. It's not "official" that Skipton is the best place to live, its based on some newspaper's opinion.

That said, Skipton is indeed a pleasant town with decent transport links to Leeds and Bradford, with the bonus of the Dales on their doorstep.

Some nice pubs there too, including the Narrowboat, a frequent haunt of my friends and I.
 

Bantamzen

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It takes only minutes longer to reach Leeds from places on the Airedale line than it does Bradford, and to be honest, why would anyone choose Bradford over Leeds for shopping, even when Westfield is built. Leeds is adding to its retail portfolio with Victoria Gate, and Trinity alone is due to bump Leeds up the Experian retail rankings. Trinity, personally I like. It's similar to Cabot Circus in Bristol, although I do appreciate and understand peoples weather concerns due to its open design.

Bradford needs to sort out its retail offering, for sure, but lets face it, Westfield is hardly going to boost Bradford to the extent Leeds has experienced. Can you honestly tell me that places like Darley Street aren't going to suffer the empty shop syndrome that is often the case when new shopping centres open. It's happened in Wakefield, it's happened in Derby, so it will certainly happen in Bradford.

The city needs a decent selection of shops, but it should play on other strengths, such as it's "curry scene", its wool history. It could also improve the National Media Museum, but it needs to sort out the Odeon building, and just tidy the city centre up a bit. It's proximity to Bronte Country, the Pennines, Yorkshire Dales, etc should help.

Bradford needs something "different", but I'm just not sure what it could sustain. Hebden Bridge has done well at becoming a bit "alternative", but copying that wouldn't work I don't think.

I really don't know what the answer is, but another generic shopping centre will only marginally help.

And if you've ever tried to get into Leeds at peak times, or peak shopping times you'll know that the trains in & out of there can get very busy to the point that they could start to put people off. I know we don't go in as much, especially given that Leeds council has pushed away a lot of niche businesses that were very popular in favour in more generic ones that better suit Leeds' imagined image. So for a start, those displaced businesses may find they way west if things start to take off.

So I do think people will slowly migrate back to Bradford from much of the area to the West (which represents a large part of the Metropolitan area anyway). These people did used to shop here, so if the right retail opportunities are there again there is no reason think that they wouldn't return. I'm not suggesting that it would somehow compete on the same level as Leeds, but the plans reflect this. Bradford had a busy centre before the hole, and I'm sure it will do again. Too many people assume that the hole came about because Bradford was on it's knees, which isn't true. It was the hole (and the politics around it) that was the cause of the problem. But I guess time will tell.

BTW, try going to the Trinity when the wind is blowing. It whistles through the centre, with some interest vortexes forming in there. And when it first opened at least one of the bars on the upper levels found that poor design in the roof left their entrance being subject to the rain pouring in, so someone had to install a rather ugly solution to the & keep the rain away. Frankly, it's a bit of a vanity design with little thought to the businesses using it!
 

anti-pacer

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And if you've ever tried to get into Leeds at peak times, or peak shopping times you'll know that the trains in & out of there can get very busy to the point that they could start to put people off. I know we don't go in as much, especially given that Leeds council has pushed away a lot of niche businesses that were very popular in favour in more generic ones that better suit Leeds' imagined image. So for a start, those displaced businesses may find they way west if things start to take off.

So I do think people will slowly migrate back to Bradford from much of the area to the West (which represents a large part of the Metropolitan area anyway). These people did used to shop here, so if the right retail opportunities are there again there is no reason think that they wouldn't return. I'm not suggesting that it would somehow compete on the same level as Leeds, but the plans reflect this. Bradford had a busy centre before the hole, and I'm sure it will do again. Too many people assume that the hole came about because Bradford was on it's knees, which isn't true. It was the hole (and the politics around it) that was the cause of the problem. But I guess time will tell.

BTW, try going to the Trinity when the wind is blowing. It whistles through the centre, with some interest vortexes forming in there. And when it first opened at least one of the bars on the upper levels found that poor design in the roof left their entrance being subject to the rain pouring in, so someone had to install a rather ugly solution to the & keep the rain away. Frankly, it's a bit of a vanity design with little thought to the businesses using it!

I sincerely hope Bradford prospers, and I equally hope the new shopping centre adds to Bradford's fortunes. I would also love it if Bradford could attract niche businesses and make the city different to a lot of generic cities. Something different is what's needed to make Bradford special.

As for the wind in Trinity Leeds, well having worked in City Exchange, above the older part of the centre, I agree that on occasions it is problematic.
 
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