FGW Riviara sleeper - Under 16 travelling alone

[Class 92]

I was wondering if under 16s could travel on the FGW sleeper on their own? If so would they need a adult ticket or a child ticket?
I know you cant on the ScotRail sleeper but I'm not sure about FGW.
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Merseysider]

This is FGW's contact page so if you call them, they'll have a definite answer for you. However the Riviera isn't operating until further notice due to damage in the Dawlish area.

This would probably be your best bet until someone who works for FGW comments on here

 

[Class 92]

This is FGW's contact page so if you call them, they'll have a definite answer for you. However the Riviera isn't operating until further notice due to damage in the Dawlish area.

This would probably be your best bet until someone who works for FGW comments on here

Ok, thank you.

 

[reb0118]

I know you cant on the ScotRail sleeper

Yes you can, you need a note from your Mum though

In all seriousness though, you can travel on the Caledonian Sleeper as long as you have solo occupancy of a compartment. No sharing with a stranger or travelling in the seated section.

 

[Class 92]

Would that be using a child or adult ticket because im unsure if you can get a child ticket on its own?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is it the same for the FGW one as well?

 

[theblackwatch]

Having done a couple of enquiries using the FGW mixing deck, it seems happy to sell tickets for 1 adult on the sleeper, but not just 1 child on the day I selected. I would suggest you do as others suggested and contact FGW - even if you bought an adult ticket for a child journey on this train, the staff may be concerned, and whatever the outcome of any contact with FGW, it would probably be wise to have something in writing from them.

 

[richw]

This is FGW's contact page so if you call them, they'll have a definite answer for you. However the Riviera isn't operating until further notice due to damage in the Dawlish area.

This would probably be your best bet until someone who works for FGW comments on here

The not operating until further notice has now been withdrawn and it is now not operating until 8th April. Fgw are taking bookings for 8th April onwards
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would that be using a child or adult ticket because im unsure if you can get a child ticket on its own?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is it the same for the FGW one as well?

It always used to be a child fare was only available when travelling with an adult on any service, but I don't think this rule is still in place. I recall when I was about 13 or 14 I was refused a child ticket because I wasn't travelling with an adult

 

[Class 92]

Ok thanks I will probably contact them tomorrow.

 

[TEW]

Travelling in the seated sleeper on your own as a Child is not a problem. I've done it plenty of times.

 

[Merseysider]

Travelling in the seated sleeper on your own as a Child is not a problem. I've done it plenty of times.

I used the Caledonian Sleeper on a child ticket several years ago to go to a gig and didn't have a problem using a berth. It was Glasgow - Preston if I recall correctly. Given that both of these sleepers are run by part of the First Group I don't imagine you will have any problems as long as you ring them before your journey as I did.

 

[Qwerty133]

It always used to be a child fare was only available when travelling with an adult on any service, but I don't think this rule is still in place. I recall when I was about 13 or 14 I was refused a child ticket because I wasn't travelling with an adult

Definitely not still on place, I used to very regularly travel on my own on child tickets until my 16th birthday at the end of last year.

 

[CallySleeper]

There was another thread on this same topic this week?

Bottom line with Scotrail is no children unsupervised, in berth or seats.

Cannae speak for FGW however.

 

[Qwerty133]

There was another thread on this same topic this week?

Bottom line with Scotrail is no children unsupervised, in berth or seats.

Cannae speak for FGW however.

A SR guard has posted differently in this thread about their sleeper!?

 

[Class 92]

I phoned up today and asked if someone under 16 could travel on the sleeper service on their own and they simply said "Yes they can" I have also emailed them so I can get written confirmation and to book a single child ticket you have to do it through Telesales.

 

[34D]

From a safeguarding point of view, it will be a brave TOC who replies saying they allow it.

As a parent myself, the only circumstance where a child of 15 or younger could be on a sleeper on their own (in my view) would be travelling to stay with relatives. Any other parents agree/disagree?

 

[reb0118]

From the Caledonian Sleeper website:-

Travelling With Children

All children under 16 must travel in a twin berth cabin with another member of their group, or have sole occupancy of a cabin. If you've chosen seated sleeper accommodation, remember that an adult must accompany children under 16.

Children under 5 travel free, but please note that there is no separate berth or seat allocated to them, and cots cannot be set up due to lack of available space within the cabin. Passengers travelling with children under 5 must have sole occupancy of their cabin.

The FGW website seems to be silent about unaccompanied children. This is probably due to the fact that there is no longer any sharing with strangers if you are in the berths and that the seated coach will have a guard or steward in constant attendance (unlike the ScotRail Sleeper with one guard in charge of up to three two* seated areas as the train is made up of various portions)

* I forgot the Fort William seated coach is left behind at Edinburgh

 

[185143]

Yes you can, you need a note from your Mum though

In all seriousness though, you can travel on the Caledonian Sleeper as long as you have solo occupancy of a compartment. No sharing with a stranger or travelling in the seated section.

I E-mailed Scotrail about this. I said it would be two 15 year olds on All Line Rovers and they said we could travel with no problems but if we wanted a berth we had to pay, which we already knew. They said we could travel in the seated section.

 

[bb21]

The Manual (correct as of 31st January) is quite clear that "Children (customers under the age of 16) are not permitted to travel without an adult."

However since a suitably qualified member of railway staff on the forum has confirmed that it is not (or no longer) the case, I am confident that this is now permitted.

From a safeguarding point of view, it will be a brave TOC who replies saying they allow it.

I quite agree. Seems that ScotRail are one.

 

[reb0118]

I E-mailed Scotrail about this. I said it would be two 15 year olds on All Line Rovers and they said we could travel

Yes you can.

with no problems

If you have berth reservations, yes. If you have seat reservations, see below.

but if we wanted a berth we had to pay, which we already knew.

This would be the best option. As under 16's you will get a half fare on the berth supplement - £16.50 I think. A fares guru will confirm this

They said we could travel in the seated section.

No, this is not correct. Staff on the day may refuse you access to the seats even if you have a note from customer services. The guard is in charge of the train not customer services and his decision is final. If space is available in the berths you will be directed there, if not ...........

That said in about eight years working the sleeper I have only experienced three unaccompanied children in the seated area:-

1) The first lad actually wanted a berth (he didn't realise he had been booked into a seat), he was taken to the stewards and obtained an unoccupied cabin. Sorted.

2) The second lad was of Polynesian appearance, twice my size, and could easily have slotted right into the New Zealand front row! We had no berths available that night. After contacting his parents to appraise them of the situation, and inform them that in future to make a berth reservation for him, a decision was made that he could travel in the seats as far as Edinburgh (as I was in constant attendance) when he would either transfer to an available cabin or transfer to the now deserted lounge car where the chief steward would keep an eye on him. Sorted

3) The third lad had a child ticket, no berth reservation, no seat reservation, no identification, and no money. He did, however, have more facial hair than me and unfortunately had very basic English. We attempted to get information from his guardian in London to no avail. Whilst communicating with local supervisors to decide on a solution the young man disappeared - only to be found en route hiding under a female passengers berth. BTP called, young man arrested and removed from train, and subsequently found to be an illegal immigrant. Later bailed and AFAIAA absconded.

As an aside. One fifteen year old is unaccompanied but would two together be classed the same?

 

[bb21]

This would be the best option. As under 16's you will get a half fare on the berth supplement - £16.50 I think. A fares guru will confirm this

No discount on supplements according to The Manual. I doubt things have changed.

As an aside. One fifteen year old is unaccompanied but would two together be classed the same?

The wording used in The Manual does not mention "unaccompanied". The relevant conditions are: (See below.)

Travelling with Children

...

Children (customers under the age of 16) are not permitted to travel without an adult.

...

Where children travel in seated accommodation they must be accompanied by an adult in the seated coach.

...

Of course you have confirmed that the first one does not apply now in berth accommodation.

 

[Class 92]

When I phoned FGW the person just gave me a straight yes, so I dont think he knew what I meant.

 

[30907]

From a safeguarding point of view, it will be a brave TOC who replies saying they allow it.

As a parent myself, the only circumstance where a child of 15 or younger could be on a sleeper on their own (in my view) would be travelling to stay with relatives. Any other parents agree/disagree?

Having just re-done Level 1 Safeguarding (!), it's a grey area (even for a 17-year-old). I broadly agree.

The TOC would, I think, be sufficiently covered by insisting that the young person is in a supervised area or a separate cabin - but I could understand a more restrictive policy. It would make no difference if two or more young people were travelling together.

But what about parental responsibility? Whether they are acting responsibly or not depends on the maturity of the child and the circumstances of the trip.
I think parents would be well advised to have put it in writing that the young person is travelling with their permission and being met by a named person - copy to TOC, copy carried by YP, copy at home.

(BTW I travelled alone from Victoria to Paris aged 16 to be met by my exchange partner - but it was by day train!)

 

[reb0118]

This would be the best option. As under 16's you will get a half fare on the berth supplement - £16.50 I think. A fares guru will confirm this

No discount on supplements according to The Manual. I doubt things have changed.

From the seat61 page on the Caledonian Sleeper:-

If you have a BritRail pass, Rail Rover or existing ticket: Sleeper supplements...

If you have a BritRail pass, an All-Line Rail Rover, or simply an existing flexible Off-Peak, Super Off-Peak or Anytime train ticket between London & Scotland, you can travel in a sleeper by paying the sleeper supplement.

How much is the sleeper supplement? If you have a standard class ticket, the sleeper supplement is £43.10 for a bed in a shared 2-bed compartment, or you can pay £61.20 and have sole occupancy of a 2-berth sleeper (ask for the 'Sleeper Solo' supplement). The sleeper supplement is £21.55 for children under 16. If you have a first class ticket or BritRail pass, you pay £48.80 for a bed in a single-bed compartment.

How to make sleeper reservations to go with a BritRail pass, Rail Rover or existing ticket: You cannot make reservation-only bookings online, you must go to a station or call ScotRail telesales on 8457 55 00 33, lines open 07:00-22:00 daily. From outside the UK, call +44 8457 55 00 33, this usually works, but some overseas callers aren't able to connect to UK 0845 numbers, so you can also try +44 1752 675670. Sleeper bookings open 12 weeks before departure.

 

[bb21]

Seems like I was actually wrong. Oops.

The Manual makes no mention of a discount, so I incorrectly assumed that it is not available.

However according to NRE, a discounted price is quoted for the twin berth cabin, so yes I would think Seat61 is correct on this.

 

[221129]

It's fine on FGW. I have done it countless times as a child.

 

[34D]

I am curious how many of the other parents on here would allow their 14/15 year old children to spend nights away from the family home? Letting a child of that age spend a night sleeping at a friends house is one thing.... but surely not checking into random hotels or sleeping on trains?

Or am I just behind the times? My child isn't a teen, yet!

 

[richw]

I am curious how many of the other parents on here would allow their 14/15 year old children to spend nights away from the family home? Letting a child of that age spend a night sleeping at a friends house is one thing.... but surely not checking into random hotels or sleeping on trains?

Or am I just behind the times? My child isn't a teen, yet!

I wouldn't I don't think, not alone without an adult who I know being present. But then my children aren't teenagers yet neither.

 

[andythebrave]

My eldest is 14 and I encourage her to travel independently. If she so wished, a sleeper journey would be just fine. I see no issue at all with sleeper travel when compared with any other time that she is away from home.
I well recall solo trips to London (on day trains) from an early age and, whilst thoroughly enjoying myself, didn't realise then the tremendous advantage this independence would give me later on in life.
As I see it there is a small risk when not in direct charge of your children but a life without risk will not help to develop the skills appropriate to success later on.
I do occasionally despair at the rampant over protectionism of children when the only difference from, say, 40 years ago is far wider reporting not a difference in circumstance.

 

[island]

I do occasionally despair at the rampant over protectionism of children when the only difference from, say, 40 years ago is far wider reporting not a difference in circumstance.

Yup.

Same reason I (male in 30s) won't walk around with my 11-year old niece if we are not further accompanied.

 

[TEW]

I am curious how many of the other parents on here would allow their 14/15 year old children to spend nights away from the family home? Letting a child of that age spend a night sleeping at a friends house is one thing.... but surely not checking into random hotels or sleeping on trains?

Or am I just behind the times? My child isn't a teen, yet!

Although I travelled quite a few times on the sleeper by myself before I was 16, from what I remember I only ever did it when I was 15. By that point I had been going for day trips out on trains by myself for a couple of years. With modern communication it was quite easy for me to text my Mum a couple of times a day to let her know where I was and what I was up to.