Re-openening Colne to Skipton, 'Financially Viable'

[s&crailproject]

Great News, SELRAP has just released a press release in to the reopening of the Colne to Skipton Rail Line, the findings clearly state that the project is financially Viable, please see link to news article:http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u..._for_Colne_to_Skipton_rail_reopening/?ref=rss

New report’s boost for Colne to Skipton rail reopening

REOPENING the railway line between Colne and Skipton would be financially viable, a new report claims.

Consultants ARUP were appointed to look at the social and economic case for reinstating the line by campaigners from SELRAP (Skipton-East Lancashire Rail Action Partnership), who are hoping to restore the line.

The findings from the feasibility study will be revealed at the group's annual meeting next week.

Andy Shackleton, liaison officer at SELRAP, said: “The report reveals that the line between Colne and Skipton was not listed for closure by Beeching.

 

[dggar]

Great News, SELRAP has just released a press release in to the reopening of the Colne to Skipton Rail Line, the findings clearly state that the project is financially Viable, please see link to news article:http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u..._for_Colne_to_Skipton_rail_reopening/?ref=rss

Will it use CC or Captive stock?

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

It would be very good to see that link restored, hope it does go ahead. (As well as a regular service of through trains from Clitheroe to Hellifield)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Will it use CC or Captive stock?

If it is anything like the Todmorden Chord and Copy Pit line project, there will not be ANY rolling stock...

 

[Welshman]

If it were to be re-opened, and I stress "if", then perhaps a stronger case could be made for an increased service on the Rose Grove-Colne stretch [as discussed in the "Todmorden Curve" thread], stock-availability permitting!

 

[Buttsy]

If it is anything like the Todmorden Chord and Copy Pit line project, there will not be ANY rolling stock...

Wait for your electric hand me downs from London, then you might find that there's a spare pacer available to run a Colne - Skipton shuttle

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Wait for your electric hand me downs from London, then you might find that there's a spare pacer available to run a Colne - Skipton shuttle

It is sincerely hoped that any such London "second-hand Rose" stock will receive a sympathetic refurbishment to bring then to the same standard as the ex-Merseyrail Class 142 Pacers, so that "us up North" will not be shocked by anything that takes us out of our "Pacer-engendered comfort zone"...

 

[Welshman]

Isn't there an old adage about being careful what you wish for?

 

[Lankyline]

Thought SELRAP was just a "talking shop" you would have thought that any group with the level of support that they have ie MP's councils etc would have been able to make more progress than they currently have.

Heritage rail groups move quicker than this lot ! Probably be open by 2114

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Would I be right in thinking that during the late Victorian railway era, the dominant industries of cotton and coal in the East Lancashire region were ones that do not now have the same railway-related raison d'etre and we now do not have the Midland Railway, the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway and the London and North Western Railway vying for connectional routes ?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Im alright thanks. Long term possibly, medium and short term no. Im afraid I do not believe anyone who tells me this line wont need subsidy therefore leave it for now especially considering we are trying to reduce subsidy.

That is how it is.

 

[Grumpy]

Thought SELRAP was just a "talking shop" you would have thought that any group with the level of support that they have ie MP's councils etc would have been able to make more progress than they currently have.

Heritage rail groups move quicker than this lot ! Probably be open by 2114

Last time I looked at their website I noticed that my own Parish Council was shown as a supporter. I suspect none of the residents are aware or even care and it is difficult to see such a new being of much use to residents round here.

What politician when asked "do you support the reopening of x railway line" is going to say No? I suspect most of the claimed supporters would run a mile if they were asked to contribute.

The road from Skipton to Colne isn't bad, it isn't busy (although the Colne byepass can be a pig), and the local bus services are good.

 

[BantamMenace]

Pure fantasy but makes sense:

Reinstate the line with electrification from the start with platforms capable of 5x24m

Lengthen Airedale line platforms to take 5x24m. (Connonley, Steeton and silsden, Crossflatts, Saltaire, Shipley and Frizinghall are all that need extending and only Shipley presents an issue)

Extend Leeds and Bradford to Skipton services to Colne.

Order a new 5 car emu fleet to run new extended Airedale line services.

Cascade 333s to manchester to Liverpool, Bolton and St. Helens corridors as they're better than 319s.


This solves overcrowding in West Yorkshire, a new line is opened, north west electrification gets better stock than it's currently intended to recieve.

Now please excuse me while I close my unlimited chequebook

 

[L&Y Robert]

Last time I looked at their website I noticed that my own Parish Council was shown as a supporter. I suspect none of the residents are aware or even care and it is difficult to see such a new being of much use to residents round here.

What politician when asked "do you support the reopening of x railway line" is going to say No? I suspect most of the claimed supporters would run a mile if they were asked to contribute.

The road from Skipton to Colne isn't bad, it isn't busy (although the Colne byepass can be a pig), and the local bus services are good.

Well, we've been through all this before. It isn't just "Colne to Skipton" is it? It's 'Preston to Leeds', York to Blackpool, Burnley to Keighley - anywhere 'East of the Pennines' to anywhere 'West of the Pennines'. The East Coast electric spine connected to the West Coast electric spine, like another rung of a ladder. Double track and electified throughout - and a relatively easily graded route via the Ayre and Calder valleys with no "Summit" to speak of - unlike the Coppy Pit etc. route. Energy efficient. With it restored to a good spes. who knows what workings might be tried?

 

[deltic]

Great News, SELRAP has just released a press release in to the reopening of the Colne to Skipton Rail Line, the findings clearly state that the project is financially Viable, please see link to news article:http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u..._for_Colne_to_Skipton_rail_reopening/?ref=rss

Does SELRAP have the worst website ever - couldn't find the press release mentioned but suggest it is highly unlikely that the study found the line reopening to be financially viable -ie it would even cover its operating costs never mind the construction costs. It undoubtedly found it to be economically viable which is a different matter all together.

 

[Darren R]

One Press Release does not a re-opening make. It hardly comes as a shock that a report commissioned by a pressure group lobbying for re-opening of a railway line shows there is overwhelming support for the proposal and that it is a viable scheme that has huge economic benefits. In fact if the report's findings were anything less it would be time for SELRAP to shut up shop.

Don't get me wrong - I would use the route on a regular basis and nothing (well not much anyway!) would give me greater pleasure than see the line re-open. It would be very convenient to me. But it's not going to happen.

Should the line have closed in the first place? No. Does it make sense in so many ways to re-open it? Yes. Can an economic case be made for re-opening? Possibly - but only as part of a much wider regeneration plan for the regions connected by the line. But there is quite a list of schemes that are more deserving before we even see a PPM shuttling between Colne and Skipton, let alone electric trains from Leeds. Personally I think I'll see EMUs from Blackpool North to York via Copy Pit before I see them via Skipton.

 

[joeykins82]

If the Blackpool South - Colne services were extended to Skipton and timed to connect with Airedale Line services it could well stimulate a lot of passenger growth I suppose. The gold plated solution would be to electrify all the way to Blackpool of course

 

[chorleyjeff]

Well, we've been through all this before. It isn't just "Colne to Skipton" is it? It's 'Preston to Leeds', York to Blackpool, Burnley to Keighley - anywhere 'East of the Pennines' to anywhere 'West of the Pennines'. The East Coast electric spine connected to the West Coast electric spine, like another rung of a ladder. Double track and electified throughout - and a relatively easily graded route via the Ayre and Calder valleys with no "Summit" to speak of - unlike the Coppy Pit etc. route. Energy efficient. With it restored to a good spes. who knows what workings might be tried?

There is a double track from Blackburn to Hellifield. If there really is a need for an East Lancs to North Yorkshire connection why not use this and if a connection to Leeds/Bradford is wanted either reverse at Hellifield or build a chord at Hellifield.
Do gradients matter much to newish EMU and DMUs?
I think the only through trains from beyond Skipton to Colne/Preston were summer excursions. And were there many passengers on the service trains from Lancs to Yorks via Skipton and Hellifield? Not in my experience in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

 

[bluenoxid]

The problem for reopening this route is quite substantial.

Anywhere before Bingley is faster to Manchester via Leeds. Burnley to Leeds is open, so the only thing supporting this route are four mill towns. They are Keighley, Skipton, Colne and Nelson. Yes there are routes that this route will open but we're only going to support this reopening on less than 100,000 people. An area that isn't really economically amazing and very isolated from the Motorway network.

In addition there are two hurdles either side of the route and they are bridges. The first one is Vivary Way in Colne, a D2 road that will need bridging. However, this not the only bridge as the bridge over the Canal will need to be provided as well. All of this on a formation that is vying a motorway link road from the M65 to the north of Foulridge.

At Skipton we have the bypass and the floodplain of the River Aire.

It's not the only problem. There is also an issue in the middle which is Earby. A Level Crossing will not be approved, so a brand new formation will be necessary, most likely avoiding Earby and also avoiding Barnoldswick.

SELRAP conveniently ignores that the most likely result of this bypass will be development between the old part of town and railway station. This will be needed to fund the link.

I feel nasty saying but the railway lines in the area don't help. Burnley to Ramsbottom has been swept away, which means that any train service to Manchester will have to reverse or fight through the busy Bolton corridor.

My view is that extending the route to the new bypass of Colne would offer a great parkway option, with a view of moving from that as developments define this need. Whilst Vivary Way is a D2, I think that it could be feasibly narrowed if the bypass was built. In addition, it would speed up the Colne to Skipton journey by missing central Colne.

 

[Bald Rick]

Excellent. If the project is financially viable (as opposed to viable on a socio-economic basis), then it will turn a profit when allowing for the full costs of operation, construction and asset replacement. Can we expect a share offering?

The bet laid in one of my first ever posts still stands, and has not been accepted...

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=40524&page=9 #124

 

[Ploughman]

The road from Skipton to Colne isn't bad, it isn't busy (although the Colne byepass can be a pig), and the local bus services are good.

You are talking of the route from the end of the M65 to the A56 through Earby etc?
The road does carry a fair weight of traffic. It is slow and twisty especially in the mile or 2 before it meets the A59.
Peak times through Colne to the A56 can be very slow especially in the evening peak.
The road is in need of either being supplemented by a rail service or totally rebuilt to cope with the size of vehicles it now carries but was not designed for.

 

[Jonny]

There is a double track from Blackburn to Hellifield. If there really is a need for an East Lancs to North Yorkshire connection why not use this and if a connection to Leeds/Bradford is wanted either reverse at Hellifield or build a chord at Hellifield.
Do gradients matter much to newish EMU and DMUs?
I think the only through trains from beyond Skipton to Colne/Preston were summer excursions. And were there many passengers on the service trains from Lancs to Yorks via Skipton and Hellifield? Not in my experience in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

A chord at Hellifield (to enable Skipton<> Blackburn moves) would give the freight access benefits with a fraction of the additional resources.

Also, anything running through Colne to Burnley and west thereof would be very limited in its choice of final destinations unless the Blackburn <> Bolton line became double track throughout

 

[455driver]

Where is the link to the figures that prove that its viable then?

Just the same regurgitated rubbish from people who havent a clue!


Which is a shame because if they were to actually do something useful (and show everyone what they are actually doing) then I would support them, but as the only thing they do is come up with unsubstantiated press releases I cant which is a shame as I do actually believe the line would be viable.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I don't see how it can be viable when every single route in the North of England needs subsidising including the intercity ones...

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Fingers crossed! Getting to the Skipton area from Blackpool by rail is not easy, and expensive, via Leeds / Manchester. Otherwise bus Colne to Skipton, or Preston to Skipton.

 

[Leylandlad]

Colne-Skipton is another line which should have been kept open for its strategic value, if not necessarily for its own standing.

Another trans Pennine route, without really crossing the Pennines

We went to Skipton on our Sunday outing last weekend....drove back via the A56....trackbed looks solid most of the way. As others have said, the problems are at Colne near Boundary Mill and Vivary way.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If the Blackpool South - Colne services were extended to Skipton and timed to connect with Airedale Line services it could well stimulate a lot of passenger growth I suppose. The gold plated solution would be to electrify all the way to Blackpool of course

One must remember how much single track exists on the route out from Blackpool South....would you insist on track doubling as part and parcel of an electrification project.

 

[edwin_m]

Well, we've been through all this before. It isn't just "Colne to Skipton" is it? It's 'Preston to Leeds', York to Blackpool, Burnley to Keighley - anywhere 'East of the Pennines' to anywhere 'West of the Pennines'. The East Coast electric spine connected to the West Coast electric spine, like another rung of a ladder. Double track and electified throughout - and a relatively easily graded route via the Ayre and Calder valleys with no "Summit" to speak of - unlike the Coppy Pit etc. route. Energy efficient. With it restored to a good spes. who knows what workings might be tried?

The problem with that is that two of the three you mention already have an hourly connecting service with a journey time not much different from what it would be via Colne. And re-routeing it would benefit Colne, Skipton, Keighley etc but disbenefit Bradford, Halifax, Hebden Bridge etc which are larger populations and probably need the connectivity more.

With little freight in prospect the gradient doesn't make a lot of difference - yes the 158s are a bit slow over Copy Pit but that's not going to justify building a whole new route!

Like all reopenings I wish it the very best of luck, but I think the justification has to be robust otherwise it's just pie in the sky.

 

[34D]

Surely a first step ought to be daily, two-hourly services colne-hellifield to connect? This would of course require passing facilities at Colne or near

 

[The Planner]

One must remember how much single track exists on the route out from Blackpool South....would you insist on track doubling as part and parcel of an electrification project.

No, you build infrastructure that allows for the timetable growth with some resilliance. If that ends up being a couple of passing loops then thats what you build. I cannot see how the line would justify wholesale re-doubling when the Blackpool North line is considered the dominant flow.