My idea for a Wrexham to Wrexham via Manchester service

[FQ]

I was thinking it would be possible to fit in a few more train services that aren't already in the system such as a Wrexham General-Wrexham General via Manchester Piccadilly. It could call at

• Wrexham,
• Chester,
• Crewe (reverse),
• Wilmslow,
• Stockport,
• Manchester Piccadilly,
• Manchester Oxford Road,
• Newton-le-Willows,
• Earlestown,
• Warrington Bank Quay,
• Runcorn east,
• Frodsham,
• Helsby,
• Chester and
• Wrexham.

 

[yorkie]

Great value for track bashers - buy a Manchester Oxford Road to Piccadilly single and go the long way round

 

[FQ]

Great value for track bashers - buy a Manchester Oxford Road to Piccadilly single and go the long way round

Yea that would be something. Just a shame it would be a cart
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I Just wanted to say that The main title is actually any new possible train services so feel free to think of some.
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Yea that would be something. Just a shame it would be a cart
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I Just wanted to say that The main title is actually any new possible train services so feel free to think of some.

Oh also feel free to think of any new lines that would be fun to build such as a Wrexham Central-Crewe joining on the Crewe side of Nantwich onto the Crewe to Shrewsbury line.

 

[Tracky]

Extending the Crewe shuttle through to Wrexham with a second unit would be vaguely sensible.

 

[northwichcat]

Great value for track bashers - buy a Manchester Oxford Road to Piccadilly single and go the long way round

I don't follow. The route between Stockport and Manchester Oxford Rd would be the same as Hazel Grove-Preston and the proposed route only includes Manchester once. It's not like it does something like Wrexham-Crewe-Stockport-Manchester-Bolton-Wigan-Manchester-Stockport-Crewe-Wrexham.
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I was thinking it would be possible to fit in a few more train services that aren't already in the system such as a Wrexham General-Wrexham General via Manchester Piccadilly. It could call at

• Stockport,
• Manchester Piccadilly,
  

There aren't currently any spare paths between Stockport and Manchester Piccadilly between 07:30 and 09:30 and between 16:30 and 18:30 so your proposal would have to be an off-peak service only or at peak times it would need to do Wrexham-Chester-Altrincham-Stockport-Manchester and call at all stations between Chester and Stockport.

 

[yorkie]

I don't follow. The route between Stockport and Manchester Oxford Rd would be the same as Hazel Grove-Preston and the proposed route only includes Manchester once. It's not like it does something like Wrexham-Crewe-Stockport-Manchester-Bolton-Wigan-Manchester-Stockport-Crewe-Wrexham.

Sorry, yes, I was making the assumption that it was like the old circle line, or the Glasgow subway, and kept going round continuously.

You are right if it terminated at Wrexham, then that wouldn't be a through train for that journey, but it would be like the Kingston Loop services, so there would be other through journey opportunities which would be loopholes

I can't really see much point in it to be honest, the only benefit would be very minimal e.g. people from Stockport heading towards Earlestown & Warrington wouldn't have to change at Piccadilly. If such a through service existed, it would be difficult to put much recovery time at Piccadilly, consume scarce paths for very little benefit, and 90% of passengers would be boarding/alighting in Manchester anyway!

 

[PHILIPE]

Discussions on travelling between Wrexham and Manchester can be viewed on the "Wrexham Redoubling thread" This suggestion is merely duplicating what we already have but in a different way. Pathing into Crewe would be problematical with Platform 6 the only one to have access to both Chester and Manchester routes.h

 

[TDK]

Discussions on travelling between Wrexham and Manchester can be viewed on the "Wrexham Redoubling thread" This suggestion is merely duplicating what we already have but in a different way. Pathing into Crewe would be problematical with Platform 6 the only one to have access to both Chester and Manchester routes.h

Chester to Chester via Wrexham and Wem
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I was thinking it would be possible to fit in a few more train services that aren't already in the system such as a Wrexham General-Wrexham General via Manchester Piccadilly. It could call at

• Wrexham,
• Chester,
• Crewe (reverse),
• Wilmslow,
• Stockport,
• Manchester Piccadilly,
• Manchester Oxford Road,
• Newton-le-Willows,
• Earlestown,
• Warrington Bank Quay,
• Runcorn east,
• Frodsham,
• Helsby,
• Chester and
• Wrexham.

Hmmm, a reverse at Crewe and a shunt when it gats back to Wrexham I would say that Shrewsbury to Manchester via Chester and Warrington Bank would be better and when it gets to Manchester continue to Crewe Shrewsbury via Wem

 

[FQ]

Extending the Crewe shuttle through to Wrexham with a second unit would be vaguely sensible.

Agreed.
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I think it would be fairly good to have a Wrexham General-Chester shuttle or extend the crewe shuttle

 

[Squaddie]

I think it would be fairly good to have a Wrexham General-Chester shuttle or extend the crewe shuttle

Why? There's already an excellent bus service between Wrexham and Chester, running every 12 minutes, with leather seats, free WiFi, laptop/phone charging points and more conveniently-located stops than the train.

 

[transmanche]

Why? There's already an excellent bus service between Wrexham and Chester, running every 12 minutes, with leather seats, free WiFi, laptop/phone charging points and more conveniently-located stops than the train.

And which takes nearly three times as long as the train.

(45 mins by bus v 17 mins by train.)

 

[Squaddie]

And which takes nearly three times as long as the train.

(45 mins by bus v 17 mins by train.)

Once you include the trek from Wrexham town centre to its station (including crossing all those main roads) and the long walk from Chester station to the city centre there's really very little in it.

Anyway, I know I'd prefer to spend 45 minutes on one of those Sapphire buses than 17 minutes on an ATW train.

 

[FQ]

Does anyone know if there is a line, on the Mersyrail network that allows you to go from Birkenhead North E.M.U.D to Sandhills or Brunswick because if there is you could have a service going from Carmarthen-Blackpool North going Carmarthen-Llanelli-Craven Arms (via Garth)-Shrewsbury-Wrexham General-Bidston-Sandhills-Ormskirk-Preston-Blackpool North. Of corse you would need to nock down the buffers at Ormskirk in order to connect the 2 lines.

 

[6Gman]

I was thinking it would be possible to fit in a few more train services that aren't already in the system such as a Wrexham General-Wrexham General via Manchester Piccadilly. It could call at

• Wrexham,
• Chester,
• Crewe (reverse),
• Wilmslow,
• Stockport,
• Manchester Piccadilly,
• Manchester Oxford Road,
• Newton-le-Willows,
• Earlestown,
• Warrington Bank Quay,
• Runcorn east,
• Frodsham,
• Helsby,
• Chester and
• Wrexham.

Why?

A few years ago a councillor in Crewe persuaded the Borough Council to request a Crewe - Shrewsbury - Chester - Crewe hourly service. Unsurprisingly it got nowhere. Tough on all those people wanting to travel from Wem to Ruabon but there we go ....

 

[Gareth Marston]

Does anyone know if there is a line, on the Mersyrail network that allows you to go from Birkenhead North E.M.U.D to Sandhills or Brunswick because if there is you could have a service going from Carmarthen-Blackpool North going Carmarthen-Llanelli-Craven Arms (via Garth)-Shrewsbury-Wrexham General-Bidston-Sandhills-Ormskirk-Preston-Blackpool North. Of corse you would need to nock down the buffers at Ormskirk in order to connect the 2 lines.

Just think of all those intermediate journey opportunities even if no one goes end to end - see every north wales to South Wales thread.

 

[headshot119]

Once you include the trek from Wrexham town centre to its station (including crossing all those main roads) and the long walk from Chester station to the city centre there's really very little in it.

Anyway, I know I'd prefer to spend 45 minutes on one of those Sapphire buses than 17 minutes on an ATW train.

Sorry the trek? :roll: A five minute walk I think you mean.

I'd much rather take the train, which gets me there quicker, than be chucked around on the bus for 45 minutes. The wifi never works very well once you're outside Wrexham or Chester anyway.

 

[FQ]

It would be pretty good to extend the North Yorkshire Moors railway to York NRM so people at Grosmont and Whitby can actually get to York much Quicker than they can now. Also you could run a Diesel Loco to do a normal fare instead as a day rover.
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Also you could have a Holyhead-Glasgow Central train calling at Bangor, Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Prestatyn, Flint, Chester, Altrincham, Stockport, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road, Salford Cresent, Bolton, Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme Lake District, Penrith North Lakes, Carlisle, Lockerbie, Motherwell and Glasgow Central

 

[Tracky]

Regarding the North Yorkshire Moors the best solution would be a simple single line of railway from Rillington to Pickering, the platform line at Malton is Bi-directional anyway so that could be extended up to Rillington with simple signalling. TPE may then be pursuaded to run a couple of Liverpool-Whitby services. This could be done by a separate organisation as the railway I understand have little interest.

The problem is capacity over the NYMR itself as most of their timetables run at capacity for much of the day. There was a plan for a loop at Newton Dale which would give an extra path in one direction each hour but as we know, single lines, loops and token exchanges are not great for performance.

The Coastliner buses are quite good though

 

[FQ]

Regarding the North Yorkshire Moors the best solution would be a simple single line of railway from Rillington to Pickering, the platform line at Malton is Bi-directional anyway so that could be extended up to Rillington with simple signalling. TPE may then be pursuaded to run a couple of Liverpool-Whitby services. This could be done by a separate organisation as the railway I understand have little interest.

The problem is capacity over the NYMR itself as most of their timetables run at capacity for much of the day. There was a plan for a loop at Newton Dale which would give an extra path in one direction each hour but as we know, single lines, loops and token exchanges are not great for performance.

The Coastliner buses are quite good though

Yes, That is a great idea and I agree the coastline buses are pretty good.

 

[Tomnick]

There'd certainly be a few substantial challenges for the NYMR to overcome before they'd be able to run into York or even Malton on a regular basis - the usual requirement for TPWS, OTMR, GSM-R, mainline competent crew, door locking (I believe there are certain derogations for the Battersby - Whitby operation, thanks to the low linespeed and infrequent service, that would b unlikely to be obtainable for anything running into Malton) - and I doubt the benefits would come anywhere near justifying the initial or ongoing costs. I think they'd struggle with capacity if they turned back at Malton (occupying the single platform for a long time) or ran through to York anyway.

 

[FQ]

There'd certainly be a few substantial challenges for the NYMR to overcome before they'd be able to run into York or even Malton on a regular basis - the usual requirement for TPWS, OTMR, GSM-R, mainline competent crew, door locking (I believe there are certain derogations for the Battersby - Whitby operation, thanks to the low linespeed and infrequent service, that would b unlikely to be obtainable for anything running into Malton) - and I doubt the benefits would come anywhere near justifying the initial or ongoing costs. I think they'd struggle with capacity if they turned back at Malton (occupying the single platform for a long time) or ran through to York anyway.

Agreed but it would be fun