Second Fatality at Seven Kings in a week

[badassunicorn]

There was a second fatality in a week at Seven Kings station on the GEML today, another tragedy for someones family, and a terrible ordeal for all the staff involved. It seems even the erection of fences between the Electrics and Mains is not enough to prevent these deaths. What can be done realistically to help prevent suicides at railway stations?

 

[Goatboy]

Not much really, sadly if people are determined enough that they will end their own life then unfortunately they will find a way to do so. It's just a real shame they involve innocent third parties, I really feel for the staff involved when this happens.

 

[GatwickDepress]

My condolences to the members of staff involved and the deceased's loved ones. I can only imagine how the station staff at Seven Kings feel after two in a week.

 

[455driver]

What can be done realistically to help prevent suicides at railway stations?

As Goatboy has already stated, not much!

The highlighted bit is the problem, you could isolate the tracks from everything (stations, level crossings, the Countryside) but the costs would be ridiculous.

All NR can do is try and make it a bit more difficult for them but if they are determined then sadly there is nothing anyone can do to stop them!

 

[user15681]

Platform Screen Doors on the core of the Jubilee line have drastically reduced incidents on that section of LU, but the rest of the line is enclosed so it can't really be compared to the rail network. I'm not sure if PSDs would decrease the number of suicides on the railway though, because as said if people are determined they will just find somewhere, unfortunately.

At some particularly prone stations, there are members of the Samaritans handing out cards, such as at Wimbledon, and Samaritans plaques at the end of platforms. I'm not sure how effective they are though.

I'd like to second the thoughts above regarding the staff and family.

 

[Domh245]

Platform Screen Doors on the core of the Jubilee line have drastically reduced incidents on that section of LU, but the rest of the line is enclosed so it can't really be compared to the rail network. I'm not sure if PSDs would decrease the number of suicides on the railway though, because as said if people are determined they will just find somewhere, unfortunately.

At some particularly prone stations, there are members of the Samaritans handing out cards, such as at Wimbledon, and Samaritans plaques at the end of platforms. I'm not sure how effective they are though.

I'd like to second the thoughts above regarding the staff and family.

I seem to remember that the PSD weren't installed with the intention of preventing suicides, but for some other reason (which I can't remember at the moment) - don't forget that installing PSDs where you have different types of stock serving the station will cause untold problems with boarding and alighting the train.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm not sure if PSDs would decrease the number of suicides on the railway though, because as said if people are determined they will just find somewhere, unfortunately.

PSDs of the same type as the Jubilee Line are often mentioned, but I believe they are pretty much irrelevant to the general 'mainline' railway, because unless or until all stock on a particular route is provided by fixed formations of the same train type there are just too many permutations of door positions.

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I seem to remember that the PSD weren't installed with the intention of preventing suicides, but for some other reason (which I can't remember at the moment) - don't forget that installing PSDs where you have different types of stock serving the station will cause untold problems with boarding and alighting the train.

Draft control was the main original reason. To do with the piston effect of trains in tunnels forcing air into the stations, where they were trying to control the ventilation.

 

[Kite159]

There was a second fatality in a week at Seven Kings station on the GEML today, another tragedy for someones family, and a terrible ordeal for all the staff involved. It seems even the erection of fences between the Electrics and Mains is not enough to prevent these deaths. What can be done realistically to help prevent suicides at railway stations?

Closing the gates on the fences?

I noticed that coming back from Romford on Saturday, the platforms had fences to fence off the fast line, however there was at least 5 gates open. I can understand having a gate in case of emergency, but on a saturday evening having all 5 gates wide open?

 

[Johnuk123]

Anybody who is properly suicidal won't be put off by fences and such like and nice cards from the Samaritans.

When you're truly suicidal it's usually just a matter of time.

 

[GB]

You can make stations like fort knox but people will just choose somewhere else to do it...indeed the fatality between Brentwood and Shenfield last week originated from the seven arches bridge.

 

[transmanche]

I seem to remember that the PSD weren't installed with the intention of preventing suicides, but for some other reason (which I can't remember at the moment) - don't forget that installing PSDs where you have different types of stock serving the station will cause untold problems with boarding and alighting the train.

Ventilation (specifically controlling draughts) was the primary reason - hence why there are no PSDs at surface stations.

Suicide prevention is a secondary benefit. And there's an additional secondary benefit too - especially at stations with wide platforms...

 

[NLC1072]

Closing the gates on the fences?

I noticed that coming back from Romford on Saturday, the platforms had fences to fence off the fast line, however there was at least 5 gates open. I can understand having a gate in case of emergency, but on a saturday evening having all 5 gates wide open?

They have to get their safety certificate first before they can be closed and this can only be obtained after the fence's construction... Should be within the next two weeks and they'll all be shut.

 

[dk1]

I noticed that some troll tweeted to AGA that "you obviously learnt nothing after last week to prevent it happening again". I'm sure these sort of people post just to wind others up & hope for a snappy reply. Unfortunately those with mental health issues do not arrive at the station with a flashing light on their head.

 

[wensley]

It is very hard to make any difference, and sadly improving incident response seems to be a more effective focus.

However, I attended a very interesting meeting last year and ideas such as blue lighting and classical music on stations were discussed as a way of calming potentially suicidal people. The Japanese seem to have had success with such measures and I have seen them adopted at a couple of stations. There are various possible physical and physiological deterrents, but the fear is the incidents will just be pushed out into open country - a determined person will always find a way, and there are plenty of level crossings and bridges out there.

 

[ushawk]

Harrow and Wealdstone and stations between Clapham and Croydon used to regularly get people jumping in front of trains at these stations, but since barriers were put up - there has been barely any incidents at these stations.

However, incidents have increased at South Croydon and at Gatwick. If someone wants to do it, then they will just go somewhere else where they can.

 

[Carlisle]

Anybody who is properly suicidal won't be put off by fences and such like and nice cards from the Samaritans.

When you're truly suicidal it's usually just a matter of time.

I have noticed posters and stickers from the Samaritans on many high bridges of all kinds throughout the UK hopefully they may have saved a few lives over the years

 

[colchesterken]

I was suprised to see the samaritans have a premium rate call number. would not want to have to top up the pay as you go at a time of desperation. How about network rail sponsering a free call number

 

[transmanche]

I was suprised to see the samaritans have a premium rate call number. would not want to have to top up the pay as you go at a time of desperation. How about network rail sponsering a free call number

It's strange that a phone prefix originally set up to provide cheaper calls (local rate, branded Lo-call) is now viewed as premium rate - as telcos have cut the price of geographic calls, but not done the same for 0845 calls.

I do think that mobile telcos are taking the p**s when they charge a real premium rate even for 0800 calls.

For the record, Samaritans do have standard rate geographic phone numbers as well, but obviously having a single national number makes it easier for those who need to access the service.

 

[ushawk]

Another incident at Wimbledon tonight, doesnt Wimbledon have barriers blocking access to the fasts ?

On a side note - this was the first tweet to when SWT announced the incident on Twitter -

Rosie ‏@RosieLouiseK 2h
@SW_Trains this is like a weekly excuse for delays. Sort it out.

Words cant describe the idiocy of people like this.....

 

[Peter Mugridge]

doesnt Wimbledon have barriers blocking access to the fasts ?

No, the fences on the platforms at Wimbledon are simply to separate the flow of passengers on the stairs ( in theory it's a one way stair system there but rarely enforced unfortunately ); they only extend a short distance - about 20 metres - away from the stairs.

 

[ushawk]

No, the fences on the platforms at Wimbledon are simply to separate the flow of passengers on the stairs ( in theory it's a one way stair system there but rarely enforced unfortunately ); they only extend a short distance - about 20 metres - away from the stairs.

Ah, then they really do need to be looked at for Wimbledon as it is a big hotspot - also where i unfortunately experienced by first one under.

 

[transmanche]

Words cant describe the idiocy of people like this.....

Thankfully some other Twitter users have already 'advised' her about her idiocy. Leading her to post: "That awkward moment when you p**s off the whole of twitter!"

Hopefully she's learned her lesson...

 

[TEW]

I got caught up in the disruption at Wimbledon. I was on a down train and we were stopped opposite the depot at Wimbledon for approximately 90 minutes. Thoughts with the crew of the train involved and all the staff involved in the clean up, and a big well done too, the line seemed to be open pretty quickly. Top marks to the guard on my train too, the 2200 Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour, for keeping everybody informed all the time. As a result of the regular, up to date information I didn't see a single person getting restless or complaining. In fact, once the traction current had been discharged and hence the noisy air conditioning stopped working most people just seemed to have a bit of a sleep.

 

[455driver]

Ah, then they really do need to be looked at for Wimbledon as it is a big hotspot - also where i unfortunately experienced by first one under.

What are you going to do with the trains that stop at Wimbledon on the fast lines then?

 

[tsr]

What are you going to do with the trains that stop at Wimbledon on the fast lines then?

Some trains are scheduled to stop at Purley on the Fasts, but that doesn't stop fences and gates from being used. There can be a little bit of passenger confusion, especially as the gates may occasionally need to be released by the passengers themselves (using the "emergency" release mechanisms), but it all works fairly satisfactorily in general.

Unfortunately, they also don't stop people ending up in dangerous/vulnerable situations on the Slow line platforms (luckily, the only event I've witnessed of this nature ended safely).

 

[user15681]

That reminds me, there are fences and gates blocking the lines at stations like Norbury, Thornton Heath and so on, on the SN fasts. But, as tsr says, I don't think it prevents incidents on the slows. I seem to remember one at Wandsworth Common recently, unfortunately.

 

[306024]

With regarded to fences, they are in response to everyone that has been saying 'something must be done'. Therefore the TOCs and NR have done 'something'. Whether they are effective or not, well I'm told the Samaritans say they are, but I guess we don't know how many decide not to take their life on seeing these fences.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Some trains are scheduled to stop at Purley on the Fasts, but that doesn't stop fences and gates from being used

Wimbledon is an eight car platform but twice I have had to terminate on the up fast with a twelve car set in the middle of the morning peak, it took long enough to do this using the front eight coaches as it was, barriers on the platform would've caused even more delay to my train and all the other piling up behind me on the fast line.

 

[MP33]

In the obituary of the Rev Chad Varah, the founder of the Samaritans. It stated that in the early days, it was based at his church in the City of London. The original telephone number was Mansion House 1400.

 

[Bald Rick]

With regarded to fences, they are in response to everyone that has been saying 'something must be done'. Therefore the TOCs and NR have done 'something'. Whether they are effective or not, well I'm told the Samaritans say they are, but I guess we don't know how many decide not to take their life on seeing these fences.

There has been much study done into this subject recently. The evidence suggests that many suicides are 'opportunistic' if you will pardon the choice of phrase, ie someone going through a difficult time takes a split second decision to, in this case, jump in front of a train. Clearly this isn't the case for all, or even most suicide attempts on the railway.

It does follow, though, that if you put the fences up, it makes it more difficult for the 'opportunistic' to take their lives. It is also easier for staff to spot someone on the wrong side of the fence, and do something about it.

In this respect saving one life is a good result, primarily for the individual concerned, but also those who would have been affected.

Evidence from the first fences @ Purley / Purley Oaks has shown a notable reduction in suicides at these places. It is subject to the law of small numbers, but the signs are good.