Toilets not available

[swt_passenger]

I'm amazed at all these 313's that seem to go from Brighton to Southampton...

IMHO people have just read far too much into the fact that they were route cleared to Southampton Central, presumably for flexibility in extreme circumstances.

Ever since that was done people have quoted it as though it actually happens... :roll:

 

[Lockwood]

Was I imagining being on one?

 

[embers25]

Anyway, one thing you see quite a lot is someone come up to the lav, push the open button, and when it does not open storm off saying, crap, rubbish etc. Reason it did not open, someone in. I have to admit that the little light on 377's are not the greatest. I guess its trying to come up with a sign saying:

No light: Vacant
Light: Engaged
Flashing Light : out of order

Slightly off topic but related to the above. I just got off one of the new Estonian Rail FLIRT DMUs and since I was last here the disabled toilets have had their automatic lock/unlock/open buttons deactivated and replaced with an old fashioned handle to slide the door open and lock it as apparently the automated door was too confusing!!! So its not just the UK where the disabled toilets confuse people!

 

[swt_passenger]

Was I imagining being on one?

I wasn't wishing to imply that, really just agreeing with sarahj that there is no regular diagrammed use of 313s to Southampton; and hinting at a possible reason why people think there is.

 

[yorksrob]

Slightly off topic but related to the above. I just got off one of the new Estonian Rail FLIRT DMUs and since I was last here the disabled toilets have had their automatic lock/unlock/open buttons deactivated and replaced with an old fashioned handle to slide the door open and lock it as apparently the automated door was too confusing!!! So its not just the UK where the disabled toilets confuse people!

I don't trust those hi-tec door locks. Prefer a proper lock which you can feel click into place.

 

[PHILIPE]

There is just no need for these hi-tech locks. Just keep it simple instead of trying to introduce new technology for technology's sake.

 

[trainophile]

There is just no need for these hi-tech locks. Just keep it simple instead of trying to introduce new technology for technology's sake.

If the power failed you could be stuck in there - unless there's a manual override. Maybe a power failure would automatically release the lock?

Just wondering... if you were on an Advance ticket on a lengthy journey, and had to BoJ to use station facilities due to lack of working toilet on board, would you be allowed to catch the next train to complete your journey?

 

[DelayRepay]

Just wondering... if you were on an Advance ticket on a lengthy journey, and had to BoJ to use station facilities due to lack of working toilet on board, would you be allowed to catch the next train to complete your journey?

I think it would be a harsh guard who would refuse to endorse your ticket for travel on a later service in those circumstances. But obviously if you don't ask first you could have problems as RPIs and the guard on the next train might not know.

In this case I don't see the issue. Plenty of stops along the way and other trains not very far behind. Better to run the service for the majority who won't need the loo, than cancel it so everyone's delayed and twice as many people have to squeeze onto the next train. If the problem is known about in advance then ideally it would be announced but even if it isn't, it's not the end of the world on FCC.

As others have said, a different matter on a non-stop London to York service. No doubt someone will ask whether they would get overnight accommodation or a taxi if they had to leave the last train of the day due to no working loo on board....

 

[PermitToTravel]

If the power failed you could be stuck in there - unless there's a manual override. Maybe a power failure would automatically release the lock?

Toilet doors should definitely be designed to fail-safe, not fail-secure.

As others have said, a different matter on a non-stop London to York service. No doubt someone will ask whether they would get overnight accommodation or a taxi if they had to leave the last train of the day due to no working loo on board....

Is it such an invalid question?

 

[yorksrob]

No doubt someone will ask whether they would get overnight accommodation or a taxi if they had to leave the last train of the day due to no working loo on board....

Is that what they call "getting caught short" ?

 

[DelayRepay]

Is that what they call "getting caught short" ?

Are you taking the ****?

 

[A-driver]

If the power failed you could be stuck in there - unless there's a manual override. Maybe a power failure would automatically release the lock?

You wouldn't be stuck in there if the power failed. The doors don't weigh anything so you can just unlock and pull the door open.

Infact when a unit is rebooted the electronic toilet doors automatically self rest by opening and closing. When rebooting in service we are meant to make an announcement (if we remember) that the toilet door will open to warn anyone inside to male themselves decent.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If the power failed you could be stuck in there - unless there's a manual override. Maybe a power failure would automatically release the lock?

An electric lock is more secure, the doors are light and can be pulled easily.

If a mechanical lock fails, you truly would be stuck.

That said, for the most part people are better at locking mechanical doors. I've lost track of the number of times I've opened the door on a disabled loo (especially on EastCoast) to see an embarrassed looking person on the toilet.

 

[underbank]

It's alright saying that people should get a different train or should put up with no toilets. That's OK for routes with relatively short journeys and lots of train options. I sometimes have to travel on the Carnforth>Leeds line, typical journey 2 hours, relatively few trains (say two hours between trains). It's bad enough being stuck on a bumpy 2 coach DMU that's passed it's best, but not having a working toilet is unacceptable. If you don't get on it, then you're stuck for 2 hours until the next. If you have to get off mid-way to "go" at a station, it's a 2 hour wait for the next.

 

[Parallel]

In terms of trains not having toilets - I don't think I have ever been on a service that doesn't actually have a toilet fitted so I find it naturally a bit strange that toilets aren't available on some services. However, I don't really see the problem as long as the trains are advertised as not having toilets both online and through station displays and announcements - and if there are toilet facilities near by to the stations. I've read somewhere before that it is advisable to arrive for your train 10 minutes before it's due to depart to tickets etc can be purchased, and this should also allow time to make a quick use of the loo at the station. If a passenger has a medical condition where they can't wait long and find themselves on a service where there aren't any toilets, then leaving at the next station would be advisable and using the facilities there (getting the ticket endorsed as well).

In terms of toilets being out of order, I think this causes more of an issue, if passengers assume there will be toilets on a train so go on board and find there aren't any working ones, as well as those making long distance journeys. A couple of years ago I was on a 175 where one of the toilets had failed (I assume) before I got on at Shrewsbury, and the door to the other disabled one had malfunctioned not long after we left - the guard tried to pull it open and squeezed himself through the gap, and then shut the door which then got stuck, luckily one of the litter collectors was outside at the time and they were eventually able to get the door open again. - We ended up making a toilet break at Hereford I think, as the train was going to Milford Haven, I have no idea what happened down the line, whether they terminated it at Cardiff or if they just ran making more toilet stops.

 

[transmanche]

In terms of trains not having toilets - I don't think I have ever been on a service that doesn't actually have a toilet fitted so I find it naturally a bit strange that toilets aren't available on some services. However, I don't really see the problem as long as the trains are advertised as not having toilets both online and through station displays and announcements - and if there are toilet facilities near by to the stations.

It really depends on the route.

I don't know about now, but one of the longest non-toilet journeys used to be on the 313-operated North London Line from Richmond to North Woolwich - it was something like 70 mins for an end-to-end journey. But it wasn't a problem... as only rail enthusiasts would make the end-to-end journey.

 

[Goldfish62]

I am always amazed by people who complain of toilets not being available on services like this(and more over the state of the trains - as per the Which? thread) yet they do not realise that a lot of the time these are broken through the actions of their own fellow passengers - some of whom go out of their way to block the things on purpose.

Why are you amazed? Even if another passenger has broken the toilet, what on earth has that got to do with me? What responsibility do I have for other passengers, some of who are undoubtedly scumbags?

If someone left a hotel room in a right state and you were the next guest, would you consider it reasonable for the hotel not to clean the room for you on the basis that you should realise that some of your fellow guests trash hotel rooms?

 

[A-driver]

Why are you amazed? Even if another passenger has broken the toilet, what on earth has that got to do with me? What responsibility do I have for other passengers, some of who are undoubtedly scumbags?



If someone left a hotel room in a right state and you were the next guest, would you consider it reasonable for the hotel not to clean the room for you on the basis that you should realise that some of your fellow guests trash hotel rooms?

No comparison. If a train runs a 2.5 hour trip from Bedford to Brighton, has a 10min turnaround then runs 2.5hours back and someone vandalises the toilet or breaks it 10mins after it left Bedford then what would you suggest FCC do about it? Cancel the train plus it's return working and realistically the next few workings on its diagram so that it can be run into the depot to be fixed or announce no toilets available and run the rest of its trips until it can return the depot or be swapped without causing any cancellations?

 

[LBSCR Times]

If someone left a hotel room in a right state and you were the next guest, would you consider it reasonable for the hotel not to clean the room for you on the basis that you should realise that some of your fellow guests trash hotel rooms?

There is no comparison!
If a train was to arrive at, say Uckfield, with a broken toilet, then what are Southern supposed to do?
Repair it on site......
Send it back empty to Selhurst Depot?
Lock it out of use, and leave the unit in service?

 

[Goldfish62]

No comparison. If a train runs a 2.5 hour trip from Bedford to Brighton, has a 10min turnaround then runs 2.5hours back and someone vandalises the toilet or breaks it 10mins after it left Bedford then what would you suggest FCC do about it? Cancel the train plus it's return working and realistically the next few workings on its diagram so that it can be run into the depot to be fixed or announce no toilets available and run the rest of its trips until it can return the depot or be swapped without causing any cancellations?

The comparison I was making is completely valid and you've missed the point, which is: don't blame passengers for other passengers' poor behaviour. Simple as that.

 

[A-driver]

The comparison I was making is completely valid and you've missed the point, which is: don't blame passengers for other passengers' poor behaviour. Simple as that.

But it's still got nothing to do with hotels. You are the one who has missed the point here.

A hotel leaves about 3 hours between check out and check in. That is enough time to clean the room. That is impossible on a train. If the hotel room was badly damaged and needed longer then the hotel would look at other ways of moving the guests to other rooms etc. and if very bad then the hotel may have to cancel a booking and I would, whilst being understandably annoyed, have some sympathy with the hotel that it wasn't actually then who damaged the room.

A train dosnt have the luxury of a 3 hour turnaround to clean the toilets. And the other major difference is that if you book a hotel room for 3 nights and trash it in the first then you are the only one affected for the rest of your stay. If someone gets on a train stopping at 20 stations and trashes the loo between station 1 & 3 where they get off then hundreds of other people have to travel on that damaged train between stops 3 & 20 or alternately they have to be inconvenienced whilst the train is taken out of service no longer serving the other 17 stations.

So no, I'm afraid there is little comparison with a hotel and a train but I can see the point you are trying to make. A hotel is private accommodation. Generally what you do in your room affects you only. A train is public transport. What you do on a train affects hundreds of other passengers through the trip, thousands more through the rest of the trains working day.

 

[trainophile]

I shouldn't think train toilets are very often deliberately damaged - after all, the important fittings appear to be pretty much indestructible without extreme brute force being used. The problems tend to be blockages, which are often not the fault of the user, as the flush mechanism fails, probably due to lack of water.

I have often tried to flush an unflushed toilet when I enter the cubicle, only to find the flush mechanism isn't working, hence the state of the facility. Not sure whose fault that can be attributed to. People who need to go will continue to use it despite the malfunction, so the problem escalates as the journey goes on.

I expect when this happens it can be perceived as vandalism, as all the staff will see is a toilet full of paper (and other unmentionables of course), and assume some lout has deliberately stuffed lots of paper down it.

What's the answer? Bigger water tanks for trains serving longer journeys?

 

[strettonarms96]

shouldn't all trains have toilets? I was on an arriva service where the toilet was out of order the the other day and a lad next to me had developed a stomach bug and needed to use the toilet quick, he was in such a state.

It's not very nice isn;t it?

 

[455driver]

I was on a 159 once (stood near the toilets) when a bloke came running out of the saloon with his cupped hands (full of vomit leaking through his fingers) out in front of him, I did the decent thing and opened the door for him. Poor bloke was in a right state!

When I was a guard working the late night (455) trains I used to announce "if you are feeling unwell please use the bins provided by the doors and not the lap of the person sat beside you", manglement didnt like it but the trains were much cleaner after I started making the announcements than before so I think it did some good!

 

[infobleep]

It really depends on the route.

I don't know about now, but one of the longest non-toilet journeys used to be on the 313-operated North London Line from Richmond to North Woolwich - it was something like 70 mins for an end-to-end journey. But it wasn't a problem... as only rail enthusiasts would make the end-to-end journey.

Guildford to London Waterloo via Leatherhead has no loos and that service takes 74 minutes. It's 63 minutes to Clapham Junction alone!

Via Cobham it is still 64 minutes to London Waterloo. To Clapham Junction that is 52 minutes. The Clapham Junction times matter more because during peak rush hour there are no fast services to Clapham Junction, so effectively no services to Clapham Junction with loos. Reverse is true in the evening peak.

In fact not even all the slow services from Guildford stop there either. So if you got out at say Cobham, you could have an hours wait for the next service, or you have to change additionally at Surbiton.

As someone who uses the loo more frequently for medical reasons I'd prefer toilets on all trains. My worst nightmare would be a failed train for 4 hours or more. I would probably be in discussions with the guard or driver by the 4 hour mark!

I have heard station announcements about loos not working but equally I've been on trains where the first I knew was when I could find no working toilet.

Lately the toilets at Surbiton on platforms 3 and 4 are out of use during roof repairs but no notices up to say so. I didn't bother to raise it this time. I thought it won't be for too long a d they are working on platform 1 and 2.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[PermitToTravel]

It is only 40 minutes to Waterloo where you could use the toilets before doubling back

 

[feline1]

Quite frankly, yes it is.

but what if passengers wet themselves? Would the guard throw them off the train? (NB this question may not be hypothetical)

 

[infobleep]

It is only 40 minutes to Waterloo where you could use the toilets before doubling back

Doubling back is not allowed unless you buy two tickets or have a season ticket.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[feline1]

But it's still got nothing to do with hotels. You are the one who has missed the point here.

A hotel leaves about 3 hours between check out and check in. That is enough time to clean the room. That is impossible on a train. If the hotel room was badly damaged and needed longer then the hotel would ... SNIP.

Passengers are not interested in your excuses, nor impressed by your contempt for them.
They want the train operating company to do what is necessary to provide a quality service.
You behaving like Basil Fawlty in 'Waldorf Salad' is not the solution.

 

[transmanche]

Guildford to London Waterloo via Leatherhead has no loos and that service takes 74 minutes. It's 63 minutes to Clapham Junction alone!

But that service isn't designed for end-to-end travel. If you're at Guildford there are much faster services to Clapham Junction and Waterloo - and they have loos on board too.