442 stuck at London Bridge.

[Kentish Paul]

I was waiting on platform 5/6 at London Bridge this morning and noticed a 10 car 442 consist with the front 5,1/4 cars stopped in what appeared to be platform 12 with the rest blocking the throat.

This went on for ages with the passengers eventually exiting from the front unit and the front door of the rear unit. Many Hi-viz people in evidence !

Many Southern units waiting outside. Anyone know what happened.

This was at 08:50 ish.

 

[tcm1106]

Passcom activation on 1F82, the service in question. Made more complicated by passengers forcing doors whilst attempting to reset.

 

[Kentish Paul]

Passcom activation on 1F82, the service in question. Made more complicated by passengers forcing doors whilst attempting to reset.

Thanks, But why stop there and not go to the buffers. Depends on the nature of the passcom I suppose.

 

[causton]

I would guess 442s don't have a passcom override, you pull the handle and the train stops simple as that!

 

[edwin_m]

What's a 442 doing in London Bridge in the first place? Did somebody pull the handle when they noticed it wasn't Victoria?

 

[Searle]

What's a 442 doing in London Bridge in the first place? Did somebody pull the handle when they noticed it wasn't Victoria?

pretty sure there are a couple per day of 442 workings to London Bridge

 

[tsr]

pretty sure there are a couple per day of 442 workings to London Bridge

As per this thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1478940&postcount=13

The inbound 442 came to a stand today due to a passenger being ill and the passcom being activated. I'm not sure which coach that was in, but too bad if it was the last one of the rear unit! It all goes to show how useful & effective an override can be to move the train in the right circumstances.

 

[GodAtum]

It must be soo frustrating, why pull the PASSCOM when you are metres outside the station! Reminds me of announcements on the tube saying if there is an emergency wait until the next station.

 

[tsr]

It must be soo frustrating, why pull the PASSCOM when you are metres outside the station! Reminds me of announcements on the tube saying if there is an emergency wait until the next station.

It could have been an activation in the toilet area, or perhaps it was pulled on approach, when the passenger had no view of the station out of the window. Not everyone would be familiar with the approaches to London Bridge.

Also, the Tube network is constantly reminding passengers to seek help at a station, so the person who pulled it may have thought that alerting staff promptly at the terminus could lead to a better result, instead of activating it on the journey. Whilst a 442 is anything but a Tube train, many people would probably assume a similar system - don't try to stop it whilst on the move & wait until it's stopping anyway. That said, you're not encouraged to use Tube train alarms at all.

 

[Kentish Paul]

Thanks for the replys. But surely a pascom activation must be overridden if the leading cab is inside the platform ramp? I thought a Passcom intervention these days just contacted the driver, and not stopped the train. We must be be past the days of "pull the cord", which will stop the train. I thought all LUL trains did this where the driver would continue to the next station and not stop in a tunnel?

 

[Lockwood]

The 442s are relatively old though. I remember then being new and shiny when I was starting school in 1990.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/442421_Interior.JPG
Can't remember if they used to have pull chains, but even if they did and they have been replaced by pull down lever thingies, the internal workings are probably unchanged

 

[driver9000]

Thanks for the replys. But surely a pascom activation must be overridden if the leading cab is inside the platform ramp? I thought a Passcom intervention these days just contacted the driver, and not stopped the train. We must be be past the days of "pull the cord", which will stop the train. I thought all LUL trains did this where the driver would continue to the next station and not stop in a tunnel?

That is the case on modern rolling stock but you need to remember that 442s are over 20 years old before the override feature was added. Pull the Passcom and it will stop the train immediately. I drive trains that have no override for the Passcomm as they are of similar age.

 

[Southern313]

On Southern 313's we do have the option of overriding a pass com despite it being the old pull the chain system. There is a red button on the desk that lights up (no audible warning) and we have a couple seconds to press and hold the button, also doubles up as a handy clue that a key has been left on in the other cab as it lights up for this as well.

 

[JB_B]

We must be be past the days of "pull the cord", which will stop the train. I thought all LUL trains did this where the driver would continue to the next station and not stop in a tunnel?

I was very surprised by this. If I was stuck outside London Bridge and someone started having a heart attack my initial instinct, at least, would be to reach for the passcom to let the driver know so they could start making arrangements for when the train got in.

I know that below-floor the 442s are truly ancient but 26-years old for the rest isn't really *that* old, surely?

Can anyone confirm

(a) this definitely applies to 442s (ie no override).

(b) if there's any other stock in current use where there's no override [313s already ruled out].

?

 

[BurtonM]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/442421_Interior.JPG

That's not 1990, and I don't see any passcoms - how is this relevant?
Didn't realise 442s were that recent - they haven't aged that well, but look fantastic.

 

[sarahj]

I can confirm that if you pull what would be called the passcom in the coaches the train would stop. It might be a handle, but its just a posh chain/ communication cord. When resetting, you have to go through each coach and listen out for the hiss of air. There is no over ride.

In the guards van there are two controls, one a mushroom which opens the door locking mech in the two doors in that coach. The other is a handle which brakes the train.

I've only had to push the mushroom once (interlock issue at Haywards Heath), the others never, nor ever had to reset.

 

[Lockwood]

That's not 1990, and I don't see any passcoms - how is this relevant?
Didn't realise 442s were that recent - they haven't aged that well, but look fantastic.

It doesn't have pull chains every 5 seats?

 

[driver9000]

I was very surprised by this. If I was stuck outside London Bridge and someone started having a heart attack my initial instinct, at least, would be to reach for the passcom to let the driver know so they could start making arrangements for when the train got in.

I know that below-floor the 442s are truly ancient but 26-years old for the rest isn't really *that* old, surely?

Can anyone confirm

(a) this definitely applies to 442s (ie no override).

(b) if there's any other stock in current use where there's no override [313s already ruled out].



?

In regard to 'b' Classes 142,143,144,150,153,155,156,158,159,HST,mk2,mk3 and I'm sure mk4 stock are all fitted with passcomm handles that stop the train without the facility to override the brake application. There are probably others too.