Clitheroe to Hellifield services

[MartinsR]

Did this journey today. Why doesn't it run all week? What's the history with this route?

 

[Romilly]

You may want to look at these threads:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=43826

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=83696

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=71497

 

[47802]

I think there might be an argument to run a service on Saturdays as well as Sundays but I doubt a weekday service would really be justified, I believe friends of the S&C want service to Manchester airport via that route.

 

[30907]

Why doesn't it run all week? What's the history with this route?

I don't think the linked threads cover this, so here goes:

North of Chatburn was built by the LYR to connect with the Midland's new route to Scotland (the Settle and Carlisle), competing with the LNWR West Coast route. Grouping in 1923 meant that it gradually lost importance as a through route.

All passenger services were withdrawn in 1962, but the line remained useful for diversions off the West Coast (which is how I first travelled it in 1972) and non-fully braked freights avoiding the modernised WCML (until that disappeared). Apart from that there was just the service to/from Ribblesdale Cement (as it then was) at Horrocksford, which still runs (I think).

The Sunday-only Dalesrail service was started as long ago as the 70's, but with no intermediate stops (I'd be delighted with a Saturday service as 47802 suggests).

Blackburn-Clitheroe was reopened 1994 as a commuter route but Clitheroe is very much the end of housing development.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I think there might be an argument to run a service on Saturdays as well as Sundays but I doubt a weekday service would really be justified, I believe friends of the S&C want service to Manchester airport via that route.

I would certainly argue for a Saturday service in the summer. And if we had the rolling stock a service from Manchester too.

 

[Condor7]

Apart from that there was just the service to/from Ribblesdale Cement (as it then was) at Horrocksford, which still runs (I think).

Yes it does still run.
According to Freightmaster it runs three times a week (Monday, Wednesday, & Friday) one in each direction.

Also in the FM tables there is a empty Gypsum New Biggin to Warrington (Monday only, as required) and a daily departmental Carlisle to Crewe.

 

[MartinsR]

I don't think the linked threads cover this, so here goes:

North of Chatburn was built by the LYR to connect with the Midland's new route to Scotland (the Settle and Carlisle), competing with the LNWR West Coast route. Grouping in 1923 meant that it gradually lost importance as a through route.

All passenger services were withdrawn in 1962, but the line remained useful for diversions off the West Coast (which is how I first travelled it in 1972) and non-fully braked freights avoiding the modernised WCML (until that disappeared). Apart from that there was just the service to/from Ribblesdale Cement (as it then was) at Horrocksford, which still runs (I think).

The Sunday-only Dalesrail service was started as long ago as the 70's, but with no intermediate stops (I'd be delighted with a Saturday service as 47802 suggests).

Blackburn-Clitheroe was reopened 1994 as a commuter route but Clitheroe is very much the end of housing development.

Thank you

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes it does still run.
According to Freightmaster it runs three times a week (Monday, Wednesday, & Friday) one in each direction.

Also in the FM tables there is a empty Gypsum New Biggin to Warrington (Monday only, as required) and a daily departmental Carlisle to Crewe.

Doesn't the Carlisle-Chirk log flow follow this route (when it runs)?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Doesn't the Carlisle-Chirk log flow follow this route (when it runs)?

Wasn't that the Ribblehead service which has now finished.

 

[Condor7]

Doesn't the Carlisle-Chirk log flow follow this route (when it runs)?

Yes you are correct, although at the moment it is mainly routed via the WCML but every so often it will appear via the Settle & Carlisle route and then via Clitheroe.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wasn't that the Ribblehead service which has now finished.

The Ribblehead service was also logs but a different service, which as you rightly say has now finished for the time being.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It appears that the direct rail service from Clitheroe to Hellifield in the new May 2014 timetable period are now somewhat less than in the trial period of the expanded service over the previous two timetable periods and in this direction, as it would now appear that there is only one service weekly being the part of the Blackpool North to Carlisle service that runs on Sundays.

Has anyone more detailed reasoning to answer this, as it would appear that the special Winter 2013 timetable that carried forward the improved service is now at an end.

 

[Darren R]

Prima facie it does seem rather odd (and slightly illogical) that the Clitheroe to Hellifield service is better during the winter months than it is during high summer - although in this context the word "better" is relative!

I assumed the two return trips in the winter timetable was as a result of being able to do it with just one unit, worked by Blackpool North train crew - nice and simple.

If memory serves me correctly (if it doesn't I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along soon to set the record straight), the summer Sunday DalesRail service is quite complex operationally. Blackpool North crew only take the train as far as Hellifield, where an east-side crew (possibly Skipton??) take it northwards to Carlisle before working the next southbound back to Leeds, and vice versa with the southbound return from Carlisle to Blackpool North in the evening. Additionally, I don't think the same unit does the northbound and southbound legs.

So not only would an extra service (even only as far as Hellifield) require an extra unit just to do the one return trip, it could also be quite difficult from a train crew point-of-view.

Incidentally, does anyone know how successful the winter workings were?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have just received an e-mail from Northern Rail that states:-

1)...The Dales Rail service currently runs over the route each Sunday from 18th May to 7th September....0836 Blackpool North to Carlisle and 1757 Carlisle to Blackpool North

2)... Northern Rail have decided that the trial Sunday service in the winter 2013 timetable that was in effect will once again be repeated in the winter 2014 timetable to the following times:-
0810...Blackpool North to Hellifield
1030...Hellifield to Preston
1319...Preston to Hellifield
1455...Hellifield to Blackpool North

This service will continue running from Sunday, 14th September 2014

 

[SeanG]

Of course there is the argument that the S&C looks nicer in the winter with snow cover....
It was beautiful when I went the other. Crawling along on a 158 with 8ft drifts following a 37 with a plough

Of course though, that is not the main point of the dalesrail service

 

[Tim R-T-C]

My in-laws in Appleby were rather disappointed that the flow is one-directional, so folk from Blackpool can come for a day-out on the S&C, but they can't do a day-out to Blackpool.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My in-laws in Appleby were rather disappointed that the flow is one-directional, so folk from Blackpool can come for a day-out on the S&C, but they can't do a day-out to Blackpool.

Let us be thankful that the winter 2013 trial has been given another chance by Northern Rail in the winter 2014 timetable period. I hope that the times of the four services in my posting will be of use to forum members.

 

[muddythefish]

Yes it does still run.
According to Freightmaster it runs three times a week (Monday, Wednesday, & Friday) one in each direction.

Also in the FM tables there is a empty Gypsum New Biggin to Warrington (Monday only, as required) and a daily departmental Carlisle to Crewe.

Astonishing considering there were 40 - 50 freights a day in the early 1970s.

I used to listen to them one after another struggling up the bank at Brownhill in both directions until about 2am when I eventually nodded off to sleep !

 

[Condor7]

Astonishing considering there were 40 - 50 freights a day in the early 1970s.

I used to listen to them one after another struggling up the bank at Brownhill in both directions until about 2am when I eventually nodded off to sleep !

You can't beat the sound of a heavy freight on a night time.