Breaking journey at Birkenhead Hamilton Sq

[MK Tom]

I know this is probably an obvious question but seeing as Merseyrail is a bit unlike the national network in some ways, I just want to make sure that if I have an anytime return from Liverpool Lime Street to Chester, will I be able to break my journey and leave the station at Birkenhead Hamilton Square?

Many thanks.

 

[sonic2009]

Perfectly valid.

 

[Urban Gateline]

seeing as Merseyrail is a bit unlike the national network in some ways

What did you mean by this? Merseyrail is just like any other TOC, NRCOC applies, not like London Underground which has different conditions of carriage!

 

[MK Tom]

Well yeah, I guess I'm worried about the staff not being used to people doing this kind of thing, seeing as it's mainly used like a metro network and is effectively an isolated system.

 

[Edmondson]

seeing as Merseyrail is a bit unlike the national network in some ways

You're right there. Ticket offices on virtually every station, open from before the first train till after the last train every day. What a novel idea. I wonder why other TOCs don't try that too.

 

[SickyNicky]

What did you mean by this? Merseyrail is just like any other TOC, NRCOC applies, not like London Underground which has different conditions of carriage!

Or like London Overground who think they have different conditions of carriage.

I've never had any trouble breaking my journey on Merseyrail, for what it's worth.

 

[kieron]

One distinctive thing about Merseyrail is the way that they don't have many off-peak fares, but Day Saver and Saveaway tickets undercut many fares after 9.30 or at the weekend.

And they don't do tickets longer than a day (that I know of). If you need one of those, you'd probably be better off getting more than one day ticket.

 

[yorkie]

I know this is probably an obvious question but seeing as Merseyrail is a bit unlike the national network in some ways...

Its part of National Rail. So yes you can.

 

[Merseysider]

if I have an anytime return from Liverpool Lime Street to Chester

Get an all area saveaway, it's cheaper. If you're travelling in the morning peak buy a Halewood - Chester anytime single for 80p (via Liverpool only) which still permits break of journey, and then a saveaway to cover the return journey. £1 cheaper or so

 

[fowler9]

Get an all area saveaway, it's cheaper. If you're travelling in the morning peak buy a Halewood - Chester anytime single for 80p (via Liverpool only) which still permits break of journey, and then a saveaway to cover the return journey. £1 cheaper or so

Wow! I'm guessing I could by that at West Allerton and use it to get Lime Street?

 

[Merseysider]

Wow! I'm guessing I could by that at West Allerton and use it to get Lime Street?

I buy it online and collect at Lime Street / anywhere with TOD when I make this journey, staff at LIV aren't always too keen to 'back station' a single. But theoretically yes.

 

[MK Tom]

The return to Chester is only £4, which I thought was pretty amazing for an 'anytime' ticket. There is no peak, I'm traveling tomorrow.

In case anyone was wondering the reason for this plan is that I want to visit Chester from Liverpool whilst also doing the Birkenhead tramway on the way down.

 

[fowler9]

I buy it online and collect at Lime Street / anywhere with TOD when I make this journey, staff at LIV aren't always too keen to 'back station' a single. But theoretically yes.

Interesting, I've never had a problem back stationing at West Allerton. The staff there actually told me a while back to buy tickets off them from South Parkway to Lime Street as it was cheaper, sadly that has been sorted out now, however, I have a Trio anyway. If I am going to Chester in the near future I know what to do.

 

[Merseysider]

£4.60 with a railcard?

Yes, there is no peak on a Sunday so this is perfectly fine. My point was for anyone travelling Mon-Fri when the railcard restrictions / peak times apply

 

[bb21]

Now that the cheap one has been revealed, watch the ticket disappear pronto.

 

[Merseysider]

Now that the cheap one has been revealed, watch the ticket disappear pronto.

If they got rid of it they'd have to increase/decrease fare(s) elsewhere on the network which couldn't happen overnight.

 

[bb21]

If they got rid of it they'd have to increase/decrease fare(s) elsewhere on the network which couldn't happen overnight.

Please elaborate.

 

[fowler9]

If they got rid of it they'd have to increase/decrease fare(s) elsewhere on the network which couldn't happen overnight.

I fully expect that if I pop over the road to buy one now the fare will actually change while I am there, ha ha. Especially since it is £6 something the other way from memory.

 

[Merseysider]

Please elaborate.

Merseyrail's concession agreement with the local Passenger Transport Executive (PTE) limits regulated fares to an average increase of RPI (no plus addition).

While this is mostly relevant to the annual increase we all face, this means they can't just go around increasing fares whenever they feel like it.

Also, check page 34: http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/sra-fares-conclusions-2003.pdf

Any fare increase from this route would go directly to Northern, as they are the ones who "run" the route.

The main reason for this ticket being so cheap is that Halewood only handles a minimal amount of passengers per year ~100k or so and the amount of these who travel to Chester is fractional. The single for the way back is £6 or so like fowler9 said, so anyone making the return journey would have to buy the return ticket or they'd be paying more with two singles.

But, I go off on a tangent.

 

[Statto]

One distinctive thing about Merseyrail is the way that they don't have many off-peak fares, but Day Saver and Saveaway tickets undercut many fares after 9.30 or at the weekend.

And they don't do tickets longer than a day (that I know of). If you need one of those, you'd probably be better off getting more than one day ticket.

Merseyrail don't issue passes just the day saver, it's Merseytravel that issue the passes including a Rail only pass valid on the whole of the Merseyrail system[depending how many zones you want] which is valid for 1 week, 1 month re Annual.
http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/Tickets/compare-tickets/Documents/SeasonTicket_2014.pdf

 

[bb21]

The main reason for this ticket being so cheap is that Halewood only handles a minimal amount of passengers per year ~100k or so and the amount of these who travel to Chester is fractional. The single for the way back is £6 or so like fowler9 said, so anyone making the return journey would have to buy the return ticket or they'd be paying more with two singles.

I am aware of fares regulation but this is one I have certainly never heard of. Most interesting. It is a strange pricing strategy, but then again not much of the fares system makes sense using ordinary logic.

 

[Merseysider]

not much of the fares system makes sense using ordinary logic.

A single from Orrell to Birkenhead Conway Park is £4.50, yet it is £8.20 for a single to Birkenhead Central, half a mile away from CNP. Both are immediately after Hamilton Square, just on different lines.

This makes perfect sense
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Merseyrail don't issue passes just the day saver

I presume this would be their way of collecting more revenue from rail-only passengers than they'd normally do from sales of a Saveaway?

 

[fowler9]

These prices are for singles if you travelled on the next train today. Halewood to Chester, 80p. Hunts Cross to Chester, £6.65. Liverpool South Parkway to Chester £6.65. West Allerton to Chester, £4.70. Mossley Hill to Chester, £4.70. All within the Merseytravel boundary, all gradually getting closer time and distance wise to Liverpool city centre from where you can get a direct train to Chester. I know ticketing is very complex but that is quite bizarre.

Just found Aigburth to Chester which is slightly closer to Chester if you look at miles travelled and is not far from West Allerton, it is also £6.65.

 

[Merseysider]

West Allerton to Chester, £4.70.

West Allerton handles half the number of passengers that Halewood does, has a lower population living within 2 miles of the station and is indeed closer to the City Centre. The ticket is still more expensive.

that is quite bizarre.

 

[fowler9]

West Allerton handles half the number of passengers that Halewood does, has a lower population living within 2 miles of the station and is indeed closer to the City Centre. The ticket is still more expensive.

Yeah, spot on mate. Its just funny how it works out. Mossley Hill is a bit busier than West Allerton but pays the same price. I looked a bit further in to this and a single is £6.65 to Chester from anywhere from Hunts Cross right through to Central. its £4.70 from West Allerton, Mossley Hill or Edge Hill. £6.95 from Lime Street.

Seaforth and Litherland is £6.95 like Lime Street so I though I'd check out Oriel Road to see if it is connected to the various Merseytravel areas (Which it obviously isn't), £6.95 aswell.

 

[Merseysider]

I looked a bit further in to this

Don't stop there! After bb21's advice I'm a little hesitant to put it on a public forum but let's just say you can get a ticket from XXX, changing at XXX and then changing at Liverpool before travelling a further 10 miles down the Merseyrail network for virtual pennies. Have a play around with tickets to/from stations in rural areas / tiny villages to stations the complete opposite end of the network and you'll find at least a few more similar examples.

 

[bb21]

Don't stop there! After bb21's advice I'm a little hesitant to put it on a public forum but let's just say you can get a ticket from XXX, changing at XXX and then changing at Liverpool before travelling a further 10 miles down the Merseyrail network for virtual pennies. Have a play around with tickets to/from stations in rural areas / tiny villages to stations the complete opposite end of the network and you'll find at least a few more similar examples.

Usually we say that's what PMs are for.

That said, in your particular example, since the Halewood fare appears to be a specific fare which overrides the fare defined for the fare cluster Halewood belongs to, I wonder whether that has something to do with balancing the fares basket deliberately using flows that are little used.

 

[Merseysider]

Usually we say that's what PMs are for.

Last time I tried to PM it said I hadn't made enough posts. Still getting to grips with the forum so some things aren't obvious to me yet.

That said, in your particular example, since the Halewood fare appears to be a specific fare which overrides the fare defined for the fare cluster Halewood belongs to, I wonder whether that has something to do with balancing the fares basket deliberately using flows that are little used.

Most definitely. The other similar fares on the Merseyrail network I'm aware of can't possibly have more than 10 people making the specific journey per day, and there are multiple routes available, (eg Halewood - Chester via Warrington) so staff have probably been told to sell the more expensive ticket when asked for these little-used routes so knowledge thereof doesn't become widespread. That said, if the TOC did decide to remove the Halewood - Chester fare it's highly likely they'd just implement it elsewhere so they didn't have to go about messing with all the fares, and then certain determined people such as myself would go looking for it, and find it, and over and over...

 

[fowler9]

Don't stop there! After bb21's advice I'm a little hesitant to put it on a public forum but let's just say you can get a ticket from XXX, changing at XXX and then changing at Liverpool before travelling a further 10 miles down the Merseyrail network for virtual pennies. Have a play around with tickets to/from stations in rural areas / tiny villages to stations the complete opposite end of the network and you'll find at least a few more similar examples.

Cheers mate. I have been aware of a few savings over the years but that is just crazy. Ha ha. Thanks again and happy travels.

 

[MK Tom]

Is the £4.80 all zones ticket valid all the way down to Chester? I had been under the impression there were parts of the system outside those tickets.