Most emblematic rolling stock for each TOC

[andypops]

I know many people will disagree with me but I think Chiltern's most emblematic rolling stock is 165s.

I agree with you

I would suggest 170s are a close 2nd for LM, although the 350s are rightfully their most iconic units.

ATW is definitely 175s. I know people love to carry on about 158s being superior, with their corridor connections etc., and admittedly the refurbished units have been done well (except for the laughable build quality). But they are still not a patch on the 175s, for looks, comfort, legroom, accessibility etc.

And for what it's worth, I think XC's iconic stock are their 170s. Now I know people will disagree with me


(I would like to point out that although I find them iconic, I do actually detest all 170s...)

 

[Uzair]

What about the 444? Surely that, as SWT's flagbearer, would be its most iconic stock?

Agreed. 450s are very similar to 350s used by FTPE and LM.

 

[Crossover]

I was told by a Northern guard at Hull that they didn't sign 142s as they was no need for them to as most of Northern services there are operated by 158s.

I too have had a 142 on the all shacks from Hull to York avoiding Sherburn.

They cannot work beyond Brid, though

 

[MK Tom]

I know many people will disagree with me but I think Chiltern's most emblematic rolling stock is 165s. They were the first rolling stock that chiltern had and also when you go on a trip anywhere near the chiltern mainline you will almost certainly see on. Everyday they chug around the chiltern network taking the strain. They have been used on every route and they still going strong after 10,20 years. Before people argue that 168s have been everywhere on route, they haven't been to chinnor.

I was going to say pretty much this until I realised you'd beat me to it. If you go to Aylesbury or anywhere on that line you'll see 165s on all but a few workings. Then there are the Chiltern main line locals at both ends.

 

[Yew]

Caledonian Sleeper must be must emblematic, Shirley?

I dont think so currently, However think that after a refurbishment it could be. (But by then it will probably be in the sleeper franchise)

 

[sprinterguy]

Caledonian Sleeper must be must emblematic, Shirley?

Scotrail's best kept secret, perhaps. I would wager that the vast majority of Scotrail's passengers, moreso for infrequent travellers, don't even know that the Sleepers exist.

 

[cf111]

Scotrail's best kept secret, perhaps. I would wager that the vast majority of Scotrail's passengers, moreso for infrequent travellers, don't even know that the Sleepers exist.

There are sleeper timetables and sometimes sleeper posters on the platforms at a lot of the stations on the Highland Mainline served by the train, so it's not totally hidden. It could do with a marketing push though, but I think the prices put a lot of people off.

 

[Lockwood]

When I think FGW, I think 150/158

 

[DarloRich]

Surely your perception is based on where you live and what train you get on your line?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Yes, it's a flawed concept.

 

[glbotu]

The use of the term "emblematic" isn't the best, due to its somewhat subjective definition. I'd personally go with "iconic" or "flagship" (which are still subjective in terms of stock selection, but less so in terms of definition).

The other issue also lies in the re-shaping of franchises over the years. While things like ECML and WCML are obvious (with Virgin and East Coast either being the original franchise holder, or retaining the same routes and stock to operate them, 390s and 91s respectively, although Virgin WC's iconic stock was probably 90s + Mk3 w. DVTs until the introduction of Pendolinos), franchises like Greater Anglia were once divided between Anglia Rail (86s + Mk2 w. DBSO), First Great Eastern (321s) and West Anglia Great Northern (PEP stock), with First Capital Connect emerging from Thameslink (319s) + WAGN (PEP stock). For the original Franchises, this would probably be easier than the new, more chopped around franchises, because that's when an appreciable amount of the stock was bought.

As such, I propose a new list based on the original TOCs.

GNER - Class 91 + Mk4.
Virgin WC - Class 90 + Mk3
Midland Mainline - HST
Great Western Trains - HST
Gatwick Express - Class 73 + Mk2 + Class 486
Virgin XC - Class 37 + Mk2
Anglia - Class 86 + Mk2
LTS Rail - Class 317 w. Green Stripe
Chiltern - Class 168
First Great Eastern - Class 321
Thames Trains - Class 165
Island Line - Class 483
Silverlink - Class 313
Connex SE - Class 465
Connex SC - Class 421
Thameslink - Class 319
WAGN - PEP Stock (both Class 313 and 315 used)
South West Trains - Class 442
North Western Trains - Class 142
Northern Spririt - Class 156
Scotrail - Class 150
Strathclyde Passenger Transport - Class 314
Wales & West - Class 158
Valley Lines - Class 143
Merseyrail - Class 508
Central Trains - Class 170

I feel these somewhat sit better than trying to come up with some for the current TOCs. Thoughts?

 

[DarloRich]

But Virgin would always say their emblematic/iconic/whatever is their Pendolino/Voyager fleet. So would most of their passengers.

 

[sprinterguy]

I feel these somewhat sit better than trying to come up with some for the current TOCs. Thoughts?

Overall, I like your thinking. However, I would offer the following:

Virgin XC - Class 37 + Mk2

Class 47 + Mk 2, surely? And anyway, I would have thought that the HSTs would have been the "cream of the crop" for Virgin XC of old, and they did have fairly extensive network coverage (including the West Coast, to a smaller extent) excluding the bulk of the South Coast services.

Northern Spririt - Class 156

Would it not have been the 158s that were used on Transpennine Express services? Otherwise, I would be inclined to agree.

Scotrail - Class 150

Scotrail had a fairly titchy fleet of 150s following privatisation, and they were in a woe begotten state in Nat Ex days. The 158s used across the long distance and regional services would have been the pick of the fleet, surely?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But Virgin would always say their emblematic/iconic/whatever is their Pendolino/Voyager fleet. So would most of their passengers.

I thought that the above list was looking at the situation at the start of privatisation. A bit difficult to claim "flagship" status for a type of train that did not exist at the time.

 

[DarloRich]

I thought that the above list was looking at the situation at the start of privatisation. A bit difficult to claim "flagship" status for a type of train that did not exist at the time.

Such a time did not exist. Virgin corporate memory will not allow for the a time when they did not have smart new trains

 

[al.currie93]

I wondered about the Class 171s, certainly not the most numerous in the fleet, but appear to be more photogenic than the 377's and therefore appear on a disproportiante numner of posters etc, including a LOROL one!

If you're talking about a class appearing on a poster of a company they don't belong to, I did see a National Express poster, avertising their operations, at the bus station in Bath which clearly showed a 444...

Also, for some reason, whenever I think of anything 'Anglia' I still picture turquoise class 86s...

 

[rf_ioliver]

For ATW I'd have thought it would have been the 158, but for a different defintion of emblematic I guess it would be the 67 WAG express

Ian

 

[backontrack]

I chose these because:

-Chiltern consider 168s their flagship stock

-LM have about 60 350s which they use on their flagship route

-Scotrail's 170s are spread around the network, while 380s only operate in the south. Plus they have more of these.

-375s serve Mainline stations and some Metro ones, whereas 395s only serve some Mainline stations, and Networkers do not serve many Mainline stations. Plus there are two sets of them.

-SWT have more 450s than 444s, and you see them quite a bit. I am probably wrong anyway

-There are more GC 180s than HSTS. In retrospect, this and the 450s were probably bad decisions.

And the title would probably be better with the word iconic or flagship instead.

Edit:

You know what? I was wrong about the Greater Anglia stock as well, the Class 90s were better. Never mind.

And you know what? FCC is a load of cr@p. Never mind.

 

[prod_pep]

For Merseyrail, it's definitely the 507s ahead of the 508s. There are more 507s and more significantly these were actually new to Liverpool, rather than cascades from the Southern Region. The 507s have also never operated away from the Merseyrail network.

As for WAGN, I'd probably nomimate the 317s as the 'flagship' trains, just from the routes they were used on such as London - Cambridge and the Stansted Express. The 313s and 315s looked to be low down on the priority list with their filthy plain white bodysides and, in the case of the 315s, unrefurbished and vandalised interiors.

 

[jopsuk]

For Merseyrail, it's definitely the 507s ahead of the 508s. There are more 507s and more significantly these were actually new to Liverpool, rather than cascades from the Southern Region. The 507s have also never operated away from the Merseyrail network.

Only the most absolutely dedicated spotter can tell the difference between a 507 and 508. To the majority of even those interested, the two are interchangeable.

 

[samuelmorris]

It all depends on what criteria you're after. When I think of SWT, I think of 450s and 455s because they're the most numerous, and whenever I travel SWT, Waterloo is almost always involved. The 'flagship' units though would be the 444s surely.

Likewise for GA, I think 321s and 315s because they again outnumber the other unit classes. The 317s don't so easily come to mind even though there's not many fewer than 315s, simply because as a GEML traveller, I don't see them as often. That aside though, again, if we're after 'flagship' stock it's 90+Mk3s despite their age, and 379s. The 360s may be relatively modern but having not received any branding to speak of, and being used on several different routes depending on the timetable, just makes them 'another EMU' versus the fairly obvious (if dirty) 379s.

I didn't even realise it was possible to tell a 507 and 508 apart - what's the difference (nowadays)?

 

[fowler9]

It all depends on what criteria you're after. When I think of SWT, I think of 450s and 455s because they're the most numerous, and whenever I travel SWT, Waterloo is almost always involved. The 'flagship' units though would be the 444s surely.

Likewise for GA, I think 321s and 315s because they again outnumber the other unit classes. The 317s don't so easily come to mind even though there's not many fewer than 315s, simply because as a GEML traveller, I don't see them as often. That aside though, again, if we're after 'flagship' stock it's 90+Mk3s despite their age, and 379s. The 360s may be relatively modern but having not received any branding to speak of, and being used on several different routes depending on the timetable, just makes them 'another EMU' versus the fairly obvious (if dirty) 379s.

I didn't even realise it was possible to tell a 507 and 508 apart - what's the difference (nowadays)?

Re the 507's and 508's would that be the door opening controls for passengers on 508's?

 

[Beveridges]

Northern - 142 without a doubt - the pride of the fleet

 

[JB25]

I'd have gone with 455 for SWT and Southern personally. hock:

 

[prod_pep]

Only the most absolutely dedicated spotter can tell the difference between a 507 and 508. To the majority of even those interested, the two are interchangeable.

In terms of which stock is the most 'emblematic', whether or not they can be told apart by enthusiasts is hardly the point. The fact is they are completely different classes with different histories - the 507s have spent their whole lives on Merseyside and were ordered specifically for the Northern Line. The 508s were not.

The easiest way to tell the two classes apart is by the compressors. I'm not sure of the exact model names, but the 507s use a single 'buzzing' compressor associated with underground usage. The 508s have two compressors, a relic of their time as four car units, which 'chug' instead of buzz. Just a guess based on sounds, I think the 507s have Reavell compressors and the 508s Westinghouse.

 

[samuelmorris]

In terms of which stock is the most 'emblematic', whether or not they can be told apart by enthusiasts is hardly the point. The fact is they are completely different classes with different histories - the 507s have spent their whole lives on Merseyside and were ordered specifically for the Northern Line. The 508s were not.

The easiest way to tell the two classes apart is by the compressors. I'm not sure of the exact model names, but the 507s use a single 'buzzing' compressor associated with underground usage. The 508s have two compressors, a relic of their time as four car units, which 'chug' instead of buzz. Just a guess based on sounds, I think the 507s have Reavell compressors and the 508s Westinghouse.

So in otherwords, the 507s have the 313 compressor, and the 508s the 315? (Or similar).

 

[prod_pep]

So in otherwords, the 507s have the 313 compressor, and the 508s the 315? (Or similar).

That's right, in terms of sounds, although they may still be different compressor models. Certainly, the 314 and 507 compressors sound identical.

 

[BurtonM]

142 is certainly emblematic of Northern - think Northern, think overcrowded Pacer.

EMT means 158s to me, as I, for now at least, live closest to the route of Norwich-Liverpool.

I don't think Electrostars are emblematic of anyone as they're distinctly forgettable: so many TOCs in the south have one version or another. LO's 378s excepted for being distinctively different, though.

From the perspective of someone who is sometimes based around Beckenham Junction, Southern means 455s to me, and Southeastern means 465/466.

 

[Beveridges]

Pacers - the emblematic of Northern & the pride of the fleet