Oyster cards - a bit of a dark art!!

[plastictaffy]

All too often, in my job, we get people travelling from the last station in the Oyster zone, to the next, or the next, or sometimes even three stops (15 miles) past it. I always tell punters that as a rule of thumb, anything inside the M25 is covered by the Oyster, the same as a one day travelcard.
However, I digress.
If one of my passengers travels to the next stop outside the zone, after starting their journey at the London Terminus, they of course cannot tap out on arrival there. They will then have to tap back in when they complete the journey back at the London Terminus the started from.
Obviously, the Oyster system doesn't know that they've been outside the boundary, so how, and what would it charge?? I have heard that it would apply a penalty fare to the card, is that true?? If so, how much is that??
All too often, passengers say 'Oh, I didn't know it wasn't valid to this stop'. My answer is always 'Have you done this journey before?? Didn't it strike you as odd that you couldn't tap out there??'
If I charge them, they are then charged the full fare from the London Terminus to the stop they wanted - which has led to some fairly colourful language from customers!!!
Someone out there must be able to answer my queries - answers on a postcard please!!!!!

 

[MikeWh]

If one of my passengers travels to the next stop outside the zone, after starting their journey at the London Terminus, they of course cannot tap out on arrival there. They will then have to tap back in when they complete the journey back at the London Terminus the started from.
Obviously, the Oyster system doesn't know that they've been outside the boundary, so how, and what would it charge?? I have heard that it would apply a penalty fare to the card, is that true?? If so, how much is that??

When they start the journey an entry charge is applied to the card which is usually the zone 1-6 NR+TfL charge, currently £7.50 peak and £5.10 off-peak. This remains on the card as an incomplete journey if they don't touch out. If they touch back in again where they started it will be treated as two incomplete journeys unless the touches are less than 30 minutes apart. They obviously need a paper ticket to get back so they should use that to exit at the London end.

 

[plastictaffy]

So in the peak it costs them 15 quid to do it, and off peak costs them 10.20??

 

[transmanche]

So in the peak it costs them 15 quid to do it, and off peak costs them 10.20??

Well that's the cost of two 'incomplete journeys', but it's not suggesting that it's OK to do it.

They could be stopped outside Z6 and given a PF on the outward journey - or given a PF at any point on the inward journey. Plus these 'incomplete journey' fares do not count towards the daily Oyster price caps.

 

[plastictaffy]

Although my TOC does operate the PF scheme, sadly I'm not PF trained!! I usually just chuck 'em off if I catch them early enough. Did have a beauty the other week, though. The guy was sat just behind an RPI, who chucked him off for me, got off with him, and PF'd him!!! I couldn't have written that!!!!
Same as the fare-dodger I had locked in the khazi a couple of weeks ago - I put a call through asking for security at one of our larger stops. They turned up, and as luck would have it, there were two BTP officers there. They aressted him, as it turned out he had a warrant out for his arrest!!!

 

[bb21]

If these incomplete journeys are a regular occurrence, it may also prove to be useful in an RoRA prosecution for fare evasion.

 

[455driver]

Same as the fare-dodger I had locked in the khazi a couple of weeks ago - I put a call through asking for security at one of our larger stops. They turned up, and as luck would have it, there were two BTP officers there. They aressted him, as it turned out he had a warrant out for his arrest!!!

Could you claim a finders fee?

 

[Deerfold]

Of course if the Oyster has a Travelcard including the station they boarded at on it then they won't be charged anything extra on their card.

 

[Sleepy]

If they are using PAYG oyster and cannot touch out at destination you should charge for whole journey and tell them to contact oyster helpdesk to refund entry charge.

 

[swt_passenger]

I always tell punters that as a rule of thumb, anything inside the M25 is covered by the Oyster, the same as a one day travelcard.

The M25 boundary is nothing like the London fare zones boundary, especially south of London. I wouldn't use that 'rule of thumb' any more if I was in your position...

 

[BurtonM]

Certainly wrong. For example, Swanley doesn't take Oyster, and it's the only station on that line between the end of Zone 6 (St Mary Cray) and the M25.

 

[bicbasher]

Certainly wrong. For example, Swanley doesn't take Oyster, and it's the only station on that line between the end of Zone 6 (St Mary Cray) and the M25.

Same for Staines (and Dartford which isn't technically inside the M25 as the A282 leads to the Dartford Tunnel.)

 

[Tetchytyke]

I always tell punters that as a rule of thumb, anything inside the M25 is covered by the Oyster, the same as a one day travelcard.

Be careful with that one. In parts of London the M25 is quite significantly beyond the London Zones boundary, especially in south west London (Leatherhead, Esher, Chertsey and Weybridge are all inside the M25).

"The man on the platform told me the M25 was the zone boundary" probably won't be believed by an RPI, but could be problematic for you.

If you touch in (on PAYG) but don't touch out, you'll be charged a maximum fare, as MikeWh says. If you touch out (on PAYG) without touching in, you'll also be charged a maximum fare. But if you have a Travelcard and touch in or touch out within your zones, no maximum fare is applied, even where you don't complete a journey. So don't be minded to let passengers off the fare just because they may have been charged a maximum fare.

 

[plastictaffy]

I'll have to have a quiet word in the ear of the guy that trained me and told me the same. Is there perhaps a better rule of thumb I could use??

In fairness, most of the people that try to get away with it know exactly what they're doing anyway........

 

[swt_passenger]

I'll have to have a quiet word in the ear of the guy that trained me and told me the same. Is there perhaps a better rule of thumb I could use??

I doubt there's a simple answer. The GLA boundary doesn't cut it either, because there are so many extensions beyond it - such as on the WCML towards Watford Junction. (I think that's your area isn't it?)

I think the GLA boundary is possibly about right for the basic zones 1-6; but then how many passengers know where that starts or ends anyway?

I think all you can really refer to, that is reliable and accurate is the ATOC London and SE map - which ought to be available at stations all over the southeast at least. It really ought to be on all necessary station platforms in the Oyster PAYG area anyway...

 

[BurtonM]

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf

The definitive guide - if it's not on the map, Penalty Fare. Simple as.

 

[Deerfold]

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf

The definitive guide - if it's not on the map, Penalty Fare. Simple as.

If it's a TOC with a penalty fares scheme.

And if they suspect it's not a one-off - prosecution.

 

[PermitToTravel]

the ATOC London and SE map - which ought to be available at stations all over the southeast at least. It really ought to be on all necessary station platforms in the Oyster PAYG area anyway...

Aboard some older London Midland trains is an old version of the late London Connections map, predating, among many other changes, the extension of the DLR to London City Airport.

 

[plastictaffy]

fahad - on the 321's is the map you speak of. On the same trains, you'll still find the old NSE moquette on the seats, too........

 

[PermitToTravel]

And the original 25 year old carpets too IIRC