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Missing TWO trains because of obtuse gateline staff

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jon0844

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Wow, I really do get them don't I! Here's my latest incident...

A day out in London for my birthday, during a tube strike, and had absolutely no problems on the trains or tube (Victoria Line).

But after my dad started to feel a bit ill after our food, it became a rush to get to King's Cross to get the fast (1722) train to Hatfield, which we did by arriving at 1715, but it all fell apart because of an East Coast staff member at the gates on the upper walkway (what I thought was the quickest way to get to platform 6 after coming up the escalator near platform 9 3/4).

The gates gave an error (136 or 139?) which they always do. FCC staff let you through though because they know Hatfield isn't part of the evening peak. Sadly, the error code obviously means the untrained will instantly conclude it's not valid.

And I met one.

We're standing there and it's approaching 1720, and he's telling me we all need to go to the ticket office to sort new tickets and refused to make any sort of check, after all he's clearly right.

Meanwhile, loads of other people are getting the same error - but, despite Hatfield not being valid, he let someone through manually with a London Terminals to WGC off-peak ticket! I tried to point out that WGC is one station beyond Hatfield, but he just smiled at me.

At this point, it seemed as if he'd made up his mind and wouldn't budge so was now going to make damn sure we missed the train. Either that or he didn't know where Hatfield was.

Then he let almost everyone else through getting the same error, but asked us all to move back! The only thing I can imagine was different on our tickets was that they were Groupsave 4.

Once it became obvious we were going to miss the 1722, I asked for his details and he complied - letting me write his badge details down, but pushing my camera away when I initially tried to just photograph it to make it easier. He told me I wasn't allowed to take a photo of his face (despite his badge on a lanyard being somewhat further down than his face - and why did I need his face?).

By the time we got back downstairs, where we were let through without fuss, the 4-car 1727 was too packed and there was no way to walk down to get on (four adults, baby and buggy) so we had to let that go too. Next train: 1752.

Having now gained 30 minutes, I asked an FCC staff member if he'd come with me to speak to the EC guy, but by the time we got back he'd gone. The new guy said he'd gone to take a break. Possibly true, it was now near 1730, but also possibly someone knowing we were going to go and speak to someone.

The FCC guy apologised (I told him not to, it wasn't his job to apologise!) and he explained that EC use so many agency staff that have little training, due to a high turnover, and that the problems happen all the time.

While I sympathise with FCC, at the same time, it's not acceptable to be refused access to your train - and have to accept that between 1600 and 1900, you can't afford to use any gateline that hasn't got multiple staff where there's a chance of at least one knowing the rules, or being willing to check.

Obviously using the ordinary gates downstairs, or even those on platforms 9-11 and walking around via platform 9/8 would have worked better, and had I been on my own I'd have had the time to run - but not when in a group.

Sadly I don't expect I can use Delay Repay to make a claim for being delayed 30 minutes because of staff action - although I'm going to report him to EC, even though from what FCC staff say, he probably won't even be working there in a fortnight!
 
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transmanche

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Sadly I don't expect I can use Delay Repay to make a claim for being delayed 30 minutes because of staff action - although I'm going to report him to EC
Why not? It's certainly an action within the control of the TOC. If not a Delay Repay voucher, then some form of ex-gratia gesture from East Coast would be appropriate.
 

bb21

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If you dont at least get Delay Repay compensation for your hassle, take it to London Travelwatch. Disgraceful treatment.
 

maniacmartin

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Who do you submit the Delay Repay claim to? The operator whose staff caused the delay, or the operator whose train you missed? I'd say the latter, and let FCC take it up with East Coast.

East Coast say:
If you arrive at your destination station late as a result of a delay to and/or cancellation of an East Coast service

FCC say:
Has your journey with us been delayed by 30 minutes or more? If so, you may be entitled to compensation for a portion of your fare.
 

andrewkeith5

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Who do you submit the Delay Repay claim to? The operator whose staff caused the delay, or the operator whose train you missed? I'd say the latter, and let FCC take it up with East Coast.

East Coast say:


FCC say:

If you were on a train, it would be the operator who caused the delay. Using the same principle, East Coast should take responsibility for the delay on the basis that it was their staff member who incorrectly applied the restrictions.

Perhaps if they start having to pay the price they might start seeing sense. Somehow I doubt it though :(

As an aside, when did East Coast start using the barriers?!
 

jon0844

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EC man the barriers to platforms 0-8, including upstairs on the bridge.

The only reason we went that way was because after coming up from the tube, they'd closed off the steps/lift up to the front of the station - so we had to go all the way to the northern ticket hall (with hindsight, we should have gone back to the southern exit) and then it was quicker to use the bridge.

Obviously a big mistake as there's only ever one person up there - and a lot of people that get the same error on their off-peak tickets.

It seems the gates are just set to reject all off peak tickets between 1600 and 1900 and so you're at the mercy of staff.
 

Haywain

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As an aside, when did East Coast start using the barriers?!

The first lot of barriers for platforms 0 to 5 became operational in early 2011. The logic that rejected the tickets is set by FCC as all the logic is common with the gateline for platforms 9-11. However, East Coast staff the barriers for the long distance platforms, and should be able to deal with this better than actually happened. I would advise that the OP sends a complaint to East Coast Customer Relations and refers to how it might be treated under Delay Repay, rather than submitting a Delay Repay claim, as that would muddy the waters, as the train itself was not delayed.
 
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philjo

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It seems the gates are just set to reject all off peak tickets between 1600 and 1900 and so you're at the mercy of staff.

I have had this before as my tickets are always from Potters Bar where there is no evening peak restriction (combined with my season Baldock-potters Bar as I only go into London once a week). However on Wednesday the barrier did open - I used one of the barriers from the old exit directly into the main trainshed about 17:00.I was catching the 17:23 Royston train which usually leaves from 6,7 or 8. Just after I came in they opened all the barriers (while the barriers from the concourse were still closed!)
I find that it is often the barriers upstairs on the bridge that don't work.
 

Yew

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Report it to the Independent Rail Ombudsman.. Oh...

Maybe passenger focus, or ATOC?
 
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