London Overground DMU at Willesden Jctn

[urban469]

Hi all,

I saw a passenger-carrying LO DMU (a Goblin train) on the middle platform at Willesden Junction low level yesterday (Friday). It was about 9am and it was terminating. Is that a normal service? Any idea what the route is?

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, it is in the normal timetable. Until a couple of timetables ago it ran as a 'peak extra' westbound but terminated somewhere like West Hampstead, rather than in the bay at Gospel Oak as they normally do. As it then ran ECS to Willesden anyway they subsequently decided to keep it in passenger service all the way.

It's 2J96 from Woodgrange Park: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L36678/2014/02/03/advanced

 

[455driver]

It's 2J96 from Woodgrange Park: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L36678/2014/02/03/advanced

Interestingly it misses out Gospel Oak!

 

[swt_passenger]

Interestingly it misses out Gospel Oak!

No through platform, as you must be aware of...

 

[Tomnick]

There's no through platforms on the T&H lines, just the bay - presumably running through onto the NLL proper (only a slight inconvenience for anyone who wanted Gospel Oak or anything east of there) is preferable to terminating in the bay then having to shunt to continue west as ECS!

 

[EM2]

I caught it the other week from Wanstead Park (only as far as Blackhorse Road) and it was almost empty, in comparison to the one before that was so busy I couldn't get on!
Obviously starting only one station away rather than two has an impact on that, and does illustrate how many people board at Barking!

 

[12CSVT]

I caught it the other week from Wanstead Park (only as far as Blackhorse Road) and it was almost empty, in comparison to the one before that was so busy I couldn't get on!
Obviously starting only one station away rather than two has an impact on that, and does illustrate how many people board at Barking!

Loadings on this one seem to vary from one day to another. There have been times when this one has been completely wedged. Probably depends how far in front the previous one (0748 off Barking) is.

 

[urban469]

Fascinating! Thanks everyone for the info. Is that the only passenger-carrying DMU on LO outside of the Goblin line? Are there any services in the other direction?

Also, why do they need to get a DMU to Willesden Jctn every day - is there a service reason?

 

[NSEFAN]

Fascinating! Thanks everyone for the info. Is that the only passenger-carrying DMU on LO outside of the Goblin line? Are there any services in the other direction?

Also, why do they need to get a DMU to Willesden Jctn every day - is there a service reason?

Presumably it makes sense to send the DMU to Willesden Junction rather than terminate at Hampstead Heath, as it would need to head back to Willesden TMD anyway. There's also the problem of the unit blocking up the very busy NLL if it has to reverse at Hampstead Heath, or confused passengers trying to board the unit once it terminates!

Not sure if there's a return working in the evening, though.

 

[455driver]

No through platform, as you must be aware of...

Oops, for some reason I forgot the bay was a bay and thought it was a through line!

I was up that way last year on a photo trip as well!

 

[causton]

Presumably it makes sense to send the DMU to Willesden Junction rather than terminate at Hampstead Heath, as it would need to head back to Willesden TMD anyway. There's also the problem of the unit blocking up the very busy NLL if it has to reverse at Hampstead Heath, or confused passengers trying to board the unit once it terminates!

Not sure if there's a return working in the evening, though.

It used to terminate at Hampstead Heath when it was an 'it might run or it might not' service, but it blocked the NLL for too long and then meant that the existing NLL trains behind it were very busy IIRC!

An easier way to do rare track now, better than turning up at 5am or midnight to do the avoiding line at Gospel Oak or the Willesden bay

 

[bb21]

Willesden Jn Bay is not that difficult at the moment tbh. Seems to be plenty of engineering diversions in the last year and in the coming months, together with Primrose Hill on those days.

I can't remember whether it used to run ECS to Willesden when it terminated at Hampstead Heath. It certainly did not block the station for long on the occasions I caught it. It comes in, drops everyone off, and is on its way about a minute later.

 

[causton]

When I caught it from Blackhorse Road to Willesden, it was packed and spent a bit of time at each station, not excessively long, but there were a lot of people getting on and off, even at the NLL stations!

 

[mister-sparky]

I haven't been to Gospel Oak for so long I can't remember, but is there any way of converting the bay into a through easily? Or is it ridiculously difficult and/or complicated and expensive?

 

[12CSVT]

I haven't been to Gospel Oak for so long I can't remember, but is there any way of converting the bay into a through easily? Or is it ridiculously difficult and/or complicated and expensive?

For one train a day it just wouldn't be practical. Not to mention the cost.

 

[transmanche]

I haven't been to Gospel Oak for so long I can't remember, but is there any way of converting the bay into a through easily? Or is it ridiculously difficult and/or complicated and expensive?

It's not a bay platform in the traditional sense, as I don't think there's anything particularly solid at the end of the line, so it wouldn't be too difficult to turn it into a loop.

Who knows, it may be worth considering when the line is electrified - as there'll no longer be any particular reason to terminate all services at Gospel Oak. Depending on paths, some could continue through to Willesden Junction (or beyond).

(Being totally "blue sky"; for connectivity, half the trains could be diverted to Kentish Town (the line's old terminus) and half continue beyond Gospel Oak. But that would require a new platform at Kentish Town... which would be v expensive!)

 

[Tomnick]

(Being totally "blue sky"; for connectivity, half the trains could be diverted to Kentish Town (the line's old terminus) and half continue beyond Gospel Oak. But that would require a new platform at Kentish Town... which would be v expensive!)

It'd also require reinstatement of the south curve to allow them to run into Kentish Town - not sure how much the formation has been built on, but it sounds expensive already!

 

[swt_passenger]

It's not a bay platform in the traditional sense, as I don't think there's anything particularly solid at the end of the line, so it wouldn't be too difficult to turn it into a loop.

Who knows, it may be worth considering when the line is electrified - as there'll no longer be any particular reason to terminate all services at Gospel Oak. Depending on paths, some could continue through to Willesden Junction (or beyond).

I'd expect provision of a west bound through platform at Gospel Oak has never been considered a significant problem, perhaps the wider issue will be the corresponding eastbound platform; and as new work that would need step free access.

 

[cle]

How many cars does the current platform at Gospel Oak take? It'd need six ideally, to properly futureproof - even though a 4 car sub-fleet would be most likely.

 

[D6975]

Using the ruler on Google Earth it appears to be just under 100m long.

 

[Sprinter]

Using the ruler on Google Earth it appears to be just under 100m long.

The bay at Gospel oak can easily fit two two coach units in it. I remember in the latter days of Silverlink one 150 would be stabled at Gospel Oak in between the peaks, with the in service trains pulling in front of it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's not a bay platform in the traditional sense, as I don't think there's anything particularly solid at the end of the line, so it wouldn't be too difficult to turn it into a loop.

Who knows, it may be worth considering when the line is electrified - as there'll no longer be any particular reason to terminate all services at Gospel Oak. Depending on paths, some could continue through to Willesden Junction (or beyond).

Thinking out loud:

The paths might indeed be a problem as this would create additional conflicting moves across the NLL? Don't the freights use most, if not all, of the available paths? Then again, aren't some of these freights ceasing to use the GOBLIN and NLL when the Ipswich work is completed, so the paths should in theory become available anyway?

 

[swt_passenger]

Then again, aren't some of these freights ceasing to use the GOBLIN and NLL when the Ipswich work is completed, so the paths should in theory become available anyway?

The paths just become available for the expected additional freight from London Gateway though...