Proposal To Withdraw Heritage Routemaster Route 9

[duncanp]

Transport for London are proposing to withdraw heritage routemaster route 9.

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/route-9

The text of the consultation is below:-

We are proposing to withdraw the journeys on route 9 that operate with traditional Routemaster buses and would like to hear your views.

Bus Route 9 - Hammersmith to Aldwych

Route 9 operates between Hammersmith and Aldwych broadly at the following frequencies

•Monday to Saturday daytimes – Every 6 minutes (5 minutes at peak times)
•Evenings and Sundays – Every 10 minutes


In addition, there are journeys that operate between Kensington High Street and Trafalgar Square using traditional Routemaster buses. Buses run every 20 minutes between approximately 0930 and 1830 daily and serve a number of tourist attractions.

Usage on this additional service is limited and relatively expensive to operate.

We are therefore proposing to withdraw the journeys on route 9 operated by traditional Routemaster buses in July 2014.

The fully accessible New Routemaster buses were introduced on the main service on route 9 in October 2013, on which there is spare capacity to absorb those passengers currently using the journeys between Kensington High Street and Trafalgar Square.

Traditional Routemaster buses will continue to operate on route 15 between Trafalgar Square and the Tower of London.

I suppose in an era of cuts to funding then lightly used bus services that are relatively expensive to operation have to go. Can't help thinking that the other heritage route may be for the chop soon, as the old style routemasters cannot last forever.

I will be sad to see them go, but you can't halt progress otherwise there would still be horse buses on the streets of London. (and elsewhere for that matter)

 

[ModernRailways]

The main thing for me is that by removing them from this route it will give them a reason to also push for the removal of them on the 15.

What I think should happen is maybe run them less frequently, however in the Summer when the Tourists tend to come over, put them out there a bit more. After all, if you ask an American one significant thing about London, the Red Routemaster will (almost) always be mentioned!

 

[dk1]

The main thing for me is that by removing them from this route it will give them a reason to also push for the removal of them on the 15.

What I think should happen is maybe run them less frequently, however in the Summer when the Tourists tend to come over, put them out there a bit more. After all, if you ask an American one significant thing about London, the Red Routemaster will (almost) always be mentioned!

I have always been surprised at how empty some on the 15 route are. Lots of photos & interest but few punters aboard. Shame really.

 

[christopher]

leondaniels.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/all-good-things-as-they-say-come-to-end.html

 

[Robertj21a]

Hardly surprising as the Routemasters on the 9 are not really used very much, far more sensible to use the better ones on the busier 15. Also high time that they started to cut back on these expensive 'toys' that might fool those from across the Atlantic, but really aren't proper Routemasters anyway!

Robert

 

[hassaanhc]

I have always been surprised at how empty some on the 15 route are. Lots of photos & interest but few punters aboard. Shame really.

That is actually true for a lot of London routes outside the peaks. I did use the 15 not long ago in the early afternoon between Tower Hill and Limehouse, very few people on it and almost had the whole upper deck to myself. Doesn't help that the Aldgate-All Saints section is paralleled by the 115, which is more useful for links to much of East London including the important Canning Town Bus Station and runs at the same frequency, while the 15 diverts at All Saints to terminate around the corner at Blackwall Station. And then there is usually a choice of other routes depending on where you are travelling.

 

[tbtc]

Surely Boris would never.... oh, wait... expensive, complicated bits of old kit that require double-staffing, anyone?

 

[theageofthetra]

In the summer months why don't they run some open top RM's or modern buses on the key tourist routes? This used to happen 10 or so years ago.

 

[bb21]

Surely Boris would never.... oh, wait... expensive, complicated bits of old kit that require double-staffing, anyone?

The cynic in me can't stop feeling that it is more about removing Ken's legacies and imposing his instead. Once they are gone on the 9, they will probably be reduced in frequency on the 15, until their eventual withdrawal in the not too distant future.

 

[ModernRailways]

The cynic in me can't stop feeling that it is more about removing Ken's legacies and imposing his instead. Once they are gone on the 9, they will probably be reduced in frequency on the 15, until their eventual withdrawal in the not too distant future.

That's what I thought. This is just kind of a stepping stone for TfL in getting rid of the Routemasters altogether!

What TfL should do, is reduce them significantly in the winter - less tourists - and then in Summer increase them - more tourists. I'm sure they could even get away with putting a special fare on them - pretend they are ran by a private firm?

 

[Robertj21a]

The cynic in me can't stop feeling that it is more about removing Ken's legacies and imposing his instead. Once they are gone on the 9, they will probably be reduced in frequency on the 15, until their eventual withdrawal in the not too distant future.

Boris will get rid of the (old) Routemasters still on the 15 once TfL are ready to put the (new) Routemasters (Borismasters) on to the route - next year ? Just think how Boris can emphasise that 'his' baby has even managed to outdo the classic icon that he inherited from 'Red Ken'.

Robert

 

[IanD]

After all, if you ask an American one significant thing about London, the Red Routemaster will (almost) always be mentioned!

But most of those I know (the other half and her family are American) just think a Routemaster is any red bus in London.

 

[Be3G]

I have to admit I wasn't surprised to see the consultation appear in my RSS reader. I haven't caught either the 9H or 15H often, but when I have, neither buses have seemed busy.

 

[Greenback]

It would be sad to see RM's go from route 9, but I think TfL would be better employing them on a dedicated tourist route rather than supplementing the regular buses on a 'normal' route.

I would like to see them running betweenWaterloo/London Eye, Westminster, Whitehall, Traflagar Square, Piccadilly Circus, Regent St, Oxford St and ending up at the British Museum/Russell Square.

 

[tbtc]

It would be sad to see RM's go from route 9, but I think TfL would be better employing them on a dedicated tourist route rather than supplementing the regular buses on a 'normal' route.

I would like to see them running betweenWaterloo/London Eye, Westminster, Whitehall, Traflagar Square, Piccadilly Circus, Regent St, Oxford St and ending up at the British Museum/Russell Square.

It'd be interesting to see how a "tourist" route (the RV1 always feels like a half way house between a regular bus service and a tourist route) would do, but I suppose there'd be the argument that they'd be competing with the commercially operated "tour" market if they did that

 

[Yew]

I have always been surprised at how empty some on the 15 route are. Lots of photos & interest but few punters aboard. Shame really.

Tube, most of the tourists who will use them dont know where to get them, and arent sure their travlecards are valid on it. stick some publicity in a few tub stations and usage would increase

 

[ModernRailways]

Tube, most of the tourists who will use them dont know where to get them, and arent sure their travlecards are valid on it. stick some publicity in a few tub stations and usage would increase

That's the problem. A lot of tourists don't think there Travelcards are valid on any other transport other than the tube, it's probably why the actual tours cost so much - £30 for a 24 hour ticket IIRC!

 

[Yew]

That's the problem. A lot of tourists don't think there Travelcards are valid on any other transport other than the tube, it's probably why the actual tours cost so much - £30 for a 24 hour ticket IIRC!

And also, trying to see if I can get route 9 or 15 for a journey I want to make, its really hard.. maybe they could do a short run of tube maps with the historical bus routes on in the summer for tourists? It would certainly help me!

 

[Deerfold]

I have to admit I wasn't surprised to see the consultation appear in my RSS reader. I haven't caught either the 9H or 15H often, but when I have, neither buses have seemed busy.

The 15H runs near my work - i often see it lightly loaded on weekdays. However last time I caught it at a weekend we struggled to get seats.

 

[3141]

Those buses that were refurbished by Marshalls and no longer have winding opening windows are not genuine Routemasters anyway.

 

[Greenback]

It'd be interesting to see how a "tourist" route (the RV1 always feels like a half way house between a regular bus service and a tourist route) would do, but I suppose there'd be the argument that they'd be competing with the commercially operated "tour" market if they did that

Yes, the RV1 is a bit like that! I'm not sure the argument about the tour buses would be very strong. The tours tend to be circular, with commentaries, either live or recorded, whereas this would just be a normal bus route, perhaps even at weekends only, albeit operated by vintage vehicles.

I just see something like that as a way to keep the old buses, which are a popular image of London, while at the same time increasing the number of passengers.

 

[CatfordCat]

My understanding is that if the 'heritage Routemasters' were to be used on a special route of their own, this would fall foul of the impending aspects of the Disability Discrimination Act that relate to bus services.

While the law is not yet in force for full size buses (I think the industry was given something like 20 years' notice to allow existing buses to be replaced), it is TfL policy that all bus services are accessible (one of the arguments for replacing the routemasters in the first place) and a stand-alone non accessible service would be against that policy.

From memory, it will be permissible (under DDA) to run an 'occasional' service with heritage / non accessible vehicles, or to run a 'supplementary' service (i.e. something over and above the regular service on the route) with non accessible vehicles - the latter is what's being done with the 9H / 15H.

I'm not quite sure whether it will be permissible to run a regular 'tourist' service with heritage buses once the law is fully applied. And it will be interesting to see if any operators outside London try to use a 'heritage buses' argument for ageing step entrance buses when the law is fully applied...

There was an attempt (from memory around the late 80s when most routemaster routes were converted to OPO on Sundays) to have a 'stand alone' tourist routemaster route, the 150, which ran as per the 15 from Aldgate to Trafalgar Square, then the 11 to Victoria. Travelcards and the like weren't accepted, and as a result it carried hardly any passengers and didn't last more than one season.

 

[bb21]

My understanding is that if the 'heritage Routemasters' were to be used on a special route of their own, this would fall foul of the impending aspects of the Disability Discrimination Act that relate to bus services.

While the law is not yet in force for full size buses (I think the industry was given something like 20 years' notice to allow existing buses to be replaced), it is TfL policy that all bus services are accessible (one of the arguments for replacing the routemasters in the first place) and a stand-alone non accessible service would be against that policy.

From memory, it will be permissible (under DDA) to run an 'occasional' service with heritage / non accessible vehicles, or to run a 'supplementary' service (i.e. something over and above the regular service on the route) with non accessible vehicles - the latter is what's being done with the 9H / 15H.

Yes, Ken had plans to keep one/two routes on Routemasters then iirc, but disability lobbies wouldn't have any of it, despite the assurance that the whole route would be replicated by accessible buses on other routes, hence the compromise to run them as duplicates over sections of some routes.