Class 458/5

[Goldfish62]

Training has been cancelled until further notice, Alstom are going to complete the fault free running before crew training will recommence.

Thanks for the update. Given that the initial contractual 5K miles fault-free running requirement is in itself apparently unprecedentedly high, I confidently expect that the trains will need a refurb before they enter service in about 15 years time.

 

[Manchester77]

I'm sure in a recent modern railways it stated that the entire conversion process was supposed to be complete by June or something, that sounds completely unlikely.

Are the 458/5s very different from the existing 458s in terms of guard controls and drivers cab or are there only minor differences?

 

[Monty]

From what we have been told is that the driving controls and GOPs (Guards Operating Panels) should remain unaltered. However there is additional GOP in the coach next to where the accessible toilet is located.

Personally I think the 458/0s are going to need as much if not more work than the ex460 vehicles. The first units are approaching 17 years old, their passenger saloons are in dire need of a thorough deep clean and some of the cabs are in very poor shape indeed. There are a few knocking about that even leak when it rains.

 

[Manchester77]

Personally I think the 458/0s are going to need as much if not more work than the ex460 vehicles. The first units are approaching 17 years old, their passenger saloons are in dire need of a thorough deep clean and some of the cabs are in very poor shape indeed. There are a few knocking about that even leak when it rains.

If they leak they need the finest treatment by Newton Heath with their duct tape!

Thanks, obviously it is new but if some of the equipment is similar should that mean that training isn't as long and extensive?

 

[Monty]

Can't speak for the drivers, but for guards who already sign 458/0s it's a one day conversion course. The only thing of note for us is the extra GOP panel, publicly accessible inter-unit gangways and ASDO. I can't imagine the drivers conversion course being all that long either.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm sure in a recent modern railways it stated that the entire conversion process was supposed to be complete by June or something, that sounds completely unlikely.

The original schedule had most in service by now. The first pair of units were supposed to be delivered in April last year and in service within six weeks. Instead one was delivered in September and another in November and will be in service in.... (answers on a postcard).

It would appear that the original corrosion issues are the least of the problems....
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Can't speak for the drivers, but for guards who already sign 458/0s it's a one day conversion course. The only thing of note for us is the extra GOP panel, publicly accessible inter-unit gangways and ASDO. I can't imagine the drivers conversion course being all that long either.

There are of course drivers at Strawberry Hill who don't currently sign 458s who will need full training (a friend of mine being one), however long that is.

 

[Matt Taylor]

For guards Class 158 & 159 is a combined two day course, 455s are a two day course so I would expect 458s to be a two day traction course. There is no similar course for Desiros as they are the base traction for all crew (except Salisbury).

 

[TEW]

Personally I think the 458/0s are going to need as much if not more work than the ex460 vehicles. The first units are approaching 17 years old, their passenger saloons are in dire need of a thorough deep clean and some of the cabs are in very poor shape indeed. There are a few knocking about that even leak when it rains.

The 458s are looking a lot better now than a couple of years ago. New seat covers and floors which were installed in the last couple of years made a difference. The seats were noticably brighter after going through the programme. Compared to the Desiros and even the 455s the 458s do feel tatty though. They don't seem anything like as modern as the Desiros.

 

[Goldfish62]

The 458s are looking a lot better now than a couple of years ago. New seat covers and floors which were installed in the last couple of years made a difference. The seats were noticably brighter after going through the programme. Compared to the Desiros and even the 455s the 458s do feel tatty though. They don't seem anything like as modern as the Desiros.

The problem is that floors are not cleaned nearly as much as they should and the bright blue shows all the dirt. Plus the toilets are awful (including the removal / mummifying of the baby-changing tables).

As regards the seats, they do indeed look a lot better, but the seat cushions were not replaced so some of the foam has now collapsed making the offending seats rather uncomfortable.

Presumably at the time of doing this work no one expected the 458/0s to have to soldier on for quite so long....

 

[Monty]

There are of course drivers at Strawberry Hill who don't currently sign 458s who will need full training (a friend of mine being one), however long that is.

A number of VZ (Strawberry Hill) crew have recently signed 458/0s, this was done to avoid them doing an entire course in the future when the 458/5s are operational.

 

[TEW]

The problem is that floors are not cleaned nearly as much as they should and the bright blue shows all the dirt. Plus the toilets are awful (including the removal / mummifying of the baby-changing tables).

As regards the seats, they do indeed look a lot better, but the seat cushions were not replaced so some of the foam has now collapsed making the offending seats rather uncomfortable.

Presumably at the time of doing this work no one expected the 458/0s to have to soldier on for quite so long....

Indeed, especially at this time of year when you've got lots of people with wet, muddy feet getting on the train. Footprints are always very noticable.

It's a shame because in my opinion the seats of the 458s are a lot more comfortable than those on Desiros. Hopefully more care will be taken with ths cleanliness and upkeep of the interior of the 458/5s. I've noticed some 450s have started to have harder wearing, darker carpets fitted in the vestibules. I hope it's a project being rolled out to all 450s as it's certainly an improvement on the current threadbare carpets in the vestibules.

 

[southern442]

Does anyone know what will happen in terms of the automated announcements, will they stay the same (man on 458 and the lady on 458531-6)or will they receive new ones?

 

[Goldfish62]

Does anyone know what will happen in terms of the automated announcements, will they stay the same (man on 458 and the lady on 458531-6)or will they receive new ones?

I am told that the system will announce which carriage you are in, as per Southern, thus I'd be surprised if newly recorded announcements using the awful shrill woman weren't used.
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From what we have been told is that the driving controls and GOPs (Guards Operating Panels) should remain unaltered. However there is additional GOP in the coach next to where the accessible toilet is located.

Having just one GOP on a five car train apart from the controls in the cabs compares poorly with the one per coach of the 455s (and the two per coach in Desrios) and is barely an improvement over the 458/0s which have no (operational) GOP outside the cabs, especially as it's SWT's policy that the guard, not the driver, releases the doors.

I know this is a bargain basement conversion and the bare minimum is being being done to the 458/0 coaches beyond reconfiguring the seat layout, but this seems a bit unsatisfactory.

 

[Monty]

It doesn't seem ideal but we'll just have to make the best of it with what we have, it should make it easier for guards to work the 458s. Before we had been largely confined to the middle cab.

 

[TEW]

Still going to be very difficult for guards to come through considering the frequency of stops on the routes they'll now be serving.

 

[Goldfish62]

Still going to be very difficult for guards to come through considering the frequency of stops on the routes they'll now be serving.

Yes, kind of cancels out the one extra panel.
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SWT already run 10 car 444 (230m) which wont be the same length as 10 car 458/5 (200m) so hence hiding some boards and not others.

The stop boards at Richmond have now been uncovered and some of the platform end monitors switched on. Nice to see some activity after many months!

 

[arty762]

458533 was delivered to Wimbledon TCD on 18/01/14.

 

[swt_passenger]

458533 was delivered to Wimbledon TCD on 18/01/14.

Another path in overnight Mon/Tue 20/21 as well:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R91452/2014/01/20/advanced

 

[Goldfish62]

Another path in overnight Mon/Tue 20/21 as well:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R91452/2014/01/20/advanced

Stop boards now uncovered and platform end monitors repositioned at Staines and Richmond, and stop boards fitted at Feltham.

I think things may at long last be moving.....

 

[David Goddard]

Does anyone know what will happen in terms of the automated announcements, will they stay the same (man on 458 and the lady on 458531-6)or will they receive new ones?

And hopefully change the timing of them as well.
Currently, the train pulls up at the station, passengers open the doors to alight and then the announcement comes out with "The door buttons are now activated". By this time, the dwell time has elapsed and the passengers who rely on this information (i.e. partially sighted) are then greeted with the hustler alarm to tell them the doors are closing again.
Also note that the present pitch of the announcements varies, obvious that they are a knit together of the various stations.

 

[lewisf]

Saw a pair of 458/5s pass through New Malden this evening at about 18.30 heading towards London. A training run or another two units delivered?

 

[Goldfish62]

Saw a pair of 458/5s pass through New Malden this evening at about 18.30 heading towards London. A training run or another two units delivered?

That would be from today's test / running-in runs. They did 2 x Staines-Reading and 2 x Staines - Windsor.

Even assuming that there haven't been any faults for a while, the weekly mileage (the test runs only seem to be three days a week) doesn't seem to be accumulating fast enough to reach the contractual 5k mark any time soon.
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Another path in overnight Mon/Tue 20/21 as well:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R91452/2014/01/20/advanced

It was cancelled.

 

[Domh245]

It was cancelled.

Yes, but leaving from the same place, at the same time, to the same destination was this: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O63216/2014/01/20/advanced

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, but leaving from the same place, at the same time, to the same destination was this: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O63216/2014/01/20/advanced

Oh!

So that's now four units that SWT have. Just two more ex-460s to go.

Wonder how the conversion of 8002 is going...when the conversion work ramps up it's supposed to be at least one unit every two weeks being delivered.

 

[Monty]

That would be from today's test / running-in runs. They did 2 x Staines-Reading and 2 x Staines - Windsor.

Even assuming that there haven't been any faults for a while, the weekly mileage (the test runs only seem to be three days a week) doesn't seem to be accumulating fast enough to reach the contractual 5k mark any time soon.
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It was cancelled.

Afaik the fault free running has now been completed, SWT has now resumed traction training. I have my conversion course next week.

 

[TEW]

Oh!

So that's now four units that SWT have. Just two more ex-460s to go.

Wonder how the conversion of 8002 is going...when the conversion work ramps up it's supposed to be at least one unit every two weeks being delivered.

Consensus seems to be that the fourth path was actually just the loco+barrier coaches without a 458/5, hence it running as a Class 4 rather than a Class 6. So still only 3 units for now.

 

[Cottered Crank]

Oh!

So that's now four units that SWT have. Just two more ex-460s to go.

Only three units have been received at Wimbledon Park.
There are two units currently still accumulating their 5000 miles fault free running and a third which was delivered on Saturday 18th. This third unit will remain parked up until a fourth is delivered and the two of them start their 1000 mile fault free running shortly after.

 

[Goldfish62]

Afaik the fault free running has now been completed, SWT has now resumed traction training. I have my conversion course next week.

Excellent news.

 

[hassaanhc]

Noticed that at a couple of stations (I think one on the Hounslow loop and the other is either Putney or Wandsworth Town), the 4-6 car and 8-10 car markers have the 6 and 10 covered up. Not sure how recent that is as I haven't noticed it before. Are we still no closer to having any 458/5 in service?
Today they've had several issues with unavailable stock due to faults according to the Journeycheck page. There was also a 2x450 on the 18:13 to Shepperton.

 

[samuelmorris]

Why would covering the 6 up be anything to do with the 458s?