TfGM to cut funding for buses

[northwichcat]

I'm not sure if there's a more detailed/reliable source for this. I get the impression from this they are cutting bus funding but ensuring funding for Metrolink expansion is ring fenced.

Transport bosses will slash their funding by more than £19m over the next two years – with commuters, children and the disabled all being targeted in the cutbacks.

Transport for Greater Manchester chiefs say they are facing 'unprecedented pressures' after their budget was frozen for three years despite costs being expected to spiral.

It means the 2014/15 budget is £20m less than it was in 2007/08.

They will slash:

* £7.1m from the general bus network, school buses and the city centre Metroshuttle
* Nearly £0.7m from the Ring and Ride service - a bus for the disabled and elderly who can't take regular public transport
* About £8.2 from 'operational costs' - which means 20 per cent of all posts will go to save £5.2m. This is on top of the 15 per cent of jobs already cut. A voluntary severance scheme has begun and vacant posts won't be filled - but compulsory redundancies aren't ruled out.

The measures were discussed at a Transport for Greater Manchester budget briefing yesterday.

Emma Antrobus, transport policy manager at Manchester Chamber of Commerce, said: “It's a shame cuts are going to have go be made in public transport provision at a time where the economy appears to be recovering and we are all working so hard to try and get people into work, particularly young people.

“Exacerbated by continuing high fuel costs, these cuts to public transport will have an impact on people travelling to work and therefore will make conditions even more difficult for some businesses.”

The £7.1m general cut will affect bus services subsidised by TfGM – which is 20 per cent of the network. It will mean reduced frequency of some routes, while bosses hope to make further savings by getting operators to take on services they currently subsidise.

Funding for night buses will be removed – but it's hoped bus operators will take up the slack.

Bosses hope they will make savings on both the bus network and Yellow School buses when contracts are up for renewal – also relied on to save £0.4m cut from the city centre Metroshuttle.

Nearly £0.7m will go from Ring and Ride, with the budget driven down from £5.58m this year to £4.92m in 2015/16. This means users will no longer get a 20 per cent discount on return journeys and won't be able to advance-book the service on a weekend.

A further £3m will be cut from across the network by Transport for Greater Manchester.

Councillor Andrew Fender, chairman of the TfGMC, said: “We’ve achieved a great deal over recent years as we deliver the £1.5bn investment in transport infrastructure and services through the Greater Manchester Transport Fund. Equally as important is our day-to-day spending on crucial bus services and concessionary travel.

“As a local government body, we are acutely aware of the need to make ongoing efficiency and cost savings – while at the same time protecting our long-term investment in transport infrastructure.”

The majority of the budget comes from a levy funded by taxpayers in Greater Manchester's 10 authorities. This will remain at £198m a year until 2016/17.

But each year, costs go up while three per cent of the budget has to go to the £1.5bn Manchester Transport Fund.

In 2014/15, £210.8m will go to Metrolink, £24.9m to interchange projects, and £50.9m on other schemes.

Steve Warrener, TfGM finance and corporate services director, said authorities were facing 'unprecedented budgetary pressures'.

He said cost savings needed to be made in order to continue supporting the Greater Manchester Transport Fund.

He added: ““Given the growing costs of supporting essential bus services and providing free or discounted travel to young people, pensioners and people with disabilities, and as almost 50 per cent of our levy-funded expenditure is committed, we are left with little choice but to look at making those savings through reductions in headcount.

The budget will be considered for approval by the Greater Manchester Combined Authority at the end of January.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...port-greater-manchester-slash-funding-6536033

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It might have paid you to have attended the 2014/2015 TfGMC Budget briefing discussion meeting that was held at 1100 on Tuesday of this week at Manchester Town Hall in the main council chamber, rather than to publish items from an article from the the scurrilous Manchester Evening News.

If anyone with any queries on the bus services, please contact Howard Hartley, Head of Bus at TfGM, 2 Piccadilly Place, Manchester, M1 3BG or at howard.hartley@tfgm.com

 

[northwichcat]

It might have paid you to have attended the 2014/2015 TfGMC Budget briefing discussion meeting that was held at 1100 on Tuesday of this week at Manchester Town Hall in the main council chamber, rather than to publish items from an article from the the scurrilous Manchester Evening News.

So I take it from being organised at that time that the majority of attendees were councillors and pensioners with very few people who use public transport on a daily basis for commuting?

 

[oldman]

The newspaper report does not seem wildly out of line with the TfGM budget paper. Para 4.10 under supported services says:

As noted above the revised budget proposals include savings of £7.1 million from procurement and other efficiencies in the delivery of the services. This includes additional efficiency/procurement savings of £3.4 million (in addition to the savings of over £3 million annually that have been delivered in the last two years). In addition, further savings of £3.7 million will need to be delivered from the following areas:

 Commercialising existing subsidised services;
 Reducing service frequencies, whilst maintaining the network;
 Additional efficiencies in service delivery and service reduction, including night services; and
 Schools services (from 2015/16 onwards).

There is, as always, much talk of efficiency savings, but all too often these are a euphemism for cuts.

 

[gordonthemoron]

to reduce the need for private cars, bus services should run 24/7 like some already do in London

 

[northwichcat]

to reduce the need for private cars, bus services should run 24/7 like some already do in London

The Nightbus routes need to run beyond the GM boundary as well.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So I take it from being organised at that time that the majority of attendees were councillors and pensioners with very few people who use public transport on a daily basis for commuting?

How most unkind of you. There were also people there who represented the voluntary sector. Is is not the duty of councillors from all ten areas of Greater Manchester to represent the views of their constituents who would be unable to attend this meeting. There were three consultants present who were acting on behalf of residents associations ( in which ages encompass a very wide age range). There was a strong representation from the Wigan and Leigh areas in the attendees present.

 

[northwichcat]

How most unkind of you. There were also people there who represented the voluntary sector. Is is not the duty of councillors from all ten areas of Greater Manchester to represent the views of their constituents who would be unable to attend this meeting. There were three consultants present who were acting on behalf of residents associations ( in which ages encompass a very wide age range). There was a strong representation from the Wigan and Leigh areas in the attendees present.

Many people make over 450 journeys on the Metroshuttle buses per year to get between the city stations and their work place. If a low £1 single fare was introduced then that'd be an extra £450+ a year they'd have to spend that additionally on top of any rail fare increases. Yet most of these people weren't able to attend a meeting during normal office hours where Metroshuttle funding came up.

 

[gordonthemoron]

if Metroshuttle charged, I wouldn't use it (i always use it when visiting Manchester up till now) and surely it's a benefit for Town Centre shops aswell as potentially reducing congestion?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Many people make over 450 journeys on the Metroshuttle buses per year to get between the city stations and their work place. If a low £1 single fare was introduced then that'd be an extra £450+ a year they'd have to spend that additionally on top of any rail fare increases. Yet most of these people weren't able to attend a meeting during normal office hours where Metroshuttle funding came up.

The matter of the three Metroshuttle free buses was raised at the meeting in the context on how these greatly enhance commuter and shopping movements and raising the profile of Manchester city centre. I did not recall any mention whatsoever of a charge being levied on the users of these three bus routes at the meeting.

The Oldham Metroshuttle 400 bus, that linked the old inconveniently situated Oldham Mumps stop to the main shopping area, incidentally will be withdrawn once the new Manchester Metrolink line takes its new route through Oldham town centre.

The free Bolton and Stockport Metroshuttle buses perform useful links from the railway stations there to many parts of their town centres for visitors and residents of those two towns.

 

[tbtc]

I could see a meeting scheduled for 1100 on a working Tuesday being in favour of cutting the free Metroshuttle buses, since many of those able to attend such a meeting would have free travel passes anyway - its an easy saving for TfGM to make in that respect - would be a big shame though.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I could see a meeting scheduled for 1100 on a working Tuesday being in favour of cutting the free Metroshuttle buses, since many of those able to attend such a meeting would have free travel passes anyway - its an easy saving for TfGM to make in that respect - would be a big shame though.

But no such proposal was made at the meeting. Please see my earlier posting about the Metroshuttle services.

The matter of raising a charge for the use of these services was an idea of another forum member upon this thread just to reflect his own personal view on this matter.

Whilst I live in Cheshire East and exterior to the TfGM area, I attended in my capacity of consultant to a residents and ratepayers association of part of the Stockport MBC part of Greater Manchester, in case people are wondering why I received an invitation to attend from the TfGMC. I had represented other residents associations at these meetings in previous years, so I am already known to the TfGMC.

I am also registered as a stakeholder on all the existing and lines in construction progress of the Manchester Metrolink system and also on that of the Leigh Guided Busway, receiving regular TfGM e-mail information and progress reports on all these.

 

[northwichcat]

The matter of the three Metroshuttle free buses was raised at the meeting in the context on how these greatly enhance commuter and shopping movements and raising the profile of Manchester city centre. I did not recall any mention whatsoever of a charge being levied on the users of these three bus routes at the meeting.

There is a mention of a £0.4m saving in the report oldman posted and it seems to suggest it's up to Manchester City Council to decide how to make that saving. There's 3 ways I can think of that'll achieve that:
1. Reduce the number of bus services.
2. Introduce a fare.
3. Raise £0.4m somewhere else and use that money to fund the shortfall.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There is a mention of a £0.4m saving in the report oldman posted and it seems to suggest it's up to Manchester City Council to decide how to make that saving. There's 3 ways I can think of that'll achieve that:
1. Reduce the number of bus services.
2. Introduce a fare.
3. Raise £0.4m somewhere else and use that money to fund the shortfall.

That is your own personal view on how to resolve the matter, which I respect, but it will be the actual decision that is reached by the relevant body charged for making that decision that will be the one that matters.

 

[northwichcat]

That is your own personal view on how to resolve the matter, which I respect, but it will be the actual decision that is reached by the relevant body charged for making that decision that will be the one that matters.

Other than reversing the decision are there any other options that Manchester City Council could make?

Number 3 could mean a number of things from getting rail operators to support the Metroshuttle, sponsorship, raising council tax, cutting funding for something else etc.

 

[transmanche]

Number 3 could mean a number of things from getting rail operators to support the Metroshuttle, sponsorship, raising council tax, cutting funding for something else etc.

Does Manchester City Centre have a Business Improvement District Company? If so, they would be a logical source for funding Metroshuttle.

 

[gordonthemoron]

if rail passengers using metrosuttle have plusbus tickets could a proportion of the plusbus revenue be contributed to metroshuttle?

 

[northwichcat]

if rail passengers using metrosuttle have plusbus tickets could a proportion of the plusbus revenue be contributed to metroshuttle?

Wouldn't it have to be a fare paying service to achieve that otherwise why would anyone bother showing Plusbus tickets even if they are in possession of one?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Does Manchester City Centre have a Business Improvement District Company? If so, they would be a logical source for funding Metroshuttle.

That was one of the points that was raised from the floor in the Question and Answer session at the meeting that was noted on the meeting platform.

 

[tbtc]

But no such proposal was made at the meeting. Please see my earlier posting about the Metroshuttle services.

The matter of raising a charge for the use of these services was an idea of another forum member upon this thread just to reflect his own personal view on this matter.

Whilst I live in Cheshire East and exterior to the TfGM area, I attended in my capacity of consultant to a residents and ratepayers association of part of the Stockport MBC part of Greater Manchester, in case people are wondering why I received an invitation to attend from the TfGMC. I had represented other residents associations at these meetings in previous years, so I am already known to the TfGMC.

I am also registered as a stakeholder on all the existing and lines in construction progress of the Manchester Metrolink system and also on that of the Leigh Guided Busway, receiving regular TfGM e-mail information and progress reports on all these.

I was responding to the Manchester Evening News article quoted by jcollins, which identified the Metroshuttle as something that could be cut, hence my post where I stated that "I could" see it as being something tempting to cut (given the emotive aspect of cutting the "Ring and Ride" service -much easier to cut services for everyday commuters than those for "the disabled and elderly who can't take regular public transport").

In fact the "free" minibus service round Leeds is no longer free (50p/ ticket nowadays), there's suggestion that the Rotherham "FreeBee" will be cut, the wave of such services started around ten years ago (when councils had spare money for such "luxuries") seems to be coming to an end. From memory, there was a Birmingham equivalent too, since cut?

Thanks for the PM, but I think I've said all I need to on this thread.

 

[telstarbox]

Does Manchester City Centre have a Business Improvement District Company? If so, they would be a logical source for funding Metroshuttle.

Yes - Cityco - http://cityco.com/heartofmanchester/

The Metroshuttles in Manchester are already partly funded by NCP Manchester (who run the city centre car parks on behalf of MCC) and Allied London (developers of the Spinningfields site, which is why all the routes serve that area).

 

[WatcherZero]

I was at the tuesday meeting, attendees were mostly councillors, press, TfGM staff, disabled groups and a few elderly freinds of station/bus services groups. Most entertaining element was a ranting old man who demanded that his requests to be appointed to sit on TfGM committee's was being ignored. While TfGM said their consultation with disability/users groups was strong there was a general public consensus at the meeting that the quality of public consultation had declined over the last 5 years since they axed the four town hall Q&A sessions each year in each of the ten districts. They said the 40 meetings a year that used to be run was too expensive and they barely had the staff after the cuts to hold any public meetings at all, 15% fewer headcount having to manage a annual capital spend five times as large as it was a decade ago.

Main gist was hard savings already made but even more need to be made though they will mostly fall on TfGM staff (20% cut ontop of a existing 15% cut). They are axing subsidy for night bus services on the ground of cost/usage so these services will have to be purely commercial in future (though any of you who use them will know they already have vast ticket prices). Council tax local levy for revenue services will be cut by 3% while that for capital projects will be increased by 3% for a net 0% change in council tax. Savings in procurement of subsidised services need to be made but they will prioritise reduced frequency over axing of services.

Metroshuttle funding didnt come up, there was a man who demanded that Yellow bus ticket prices were raised to the same level as commercial bus fares for the same distance and it was unfair that those who used commercial services had to pay more. Currently of course yellow bus fares in GM are a flat zonal distance based fare while commercial fares are set by the operators. I asked and they confirmed that they were looking at generating a couple of million pounds from commercial opportunities such as station name sponsorship (e.g. the For Bolton University bit under Bolton platform signs, but only as the subtitle, they wont sanction a primary name change as it would be confusing/require changing again when the sponsorship ended) advertising in larger interchanges/city centre stations and on vehicles, etc...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

While TfGM said their consultation with disability/users groups was strong there was a general public consensus at the meeting that the quality of public consultation had declined over the last 5 years since they axed the four town hall Q&A sessions each year in each of the ten districts. They said the 40 meetings a year that used to be run was too expensive and they barely had the staff after the cuts to hold any public meetings at all, 15% fewer headcount having to manage a annual capital spend five times as large as it was a decade ago.

Was it not said that only three members of the public attended one of those meetings ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Metroshuttle funding didnt come up

Thank you for confirming what I said earlier in the thread.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was at the Tuesday meeting, attendees were mostly councillors, press, TfGM staff, disabled groups and a few elderly Friends of station/bus services groups.

What category of these did you put me in ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Most entertaining element was a ranting old man who demanded that his requests to be appointed to sit on TfGM committee's was being ignored.

I was unfortunate to have him two rows back on my left-hand side.

 

[Moonshot]

I actually got an invite to this as well, but had to decline due to work committments.

No matter which way you look at this, savings have to be found in line with other areas of public spending. Absolutely the right thing to do as well.

 

[WatcherZero]

Was it not said that only three members of the public attended one of those meetings ?

Yeah but as they were quite common, locally oriented mainly to deal with local bus services it was to be expected. The meeting where they did round table discussions on Greater Manchester Transport Fund spending priorities at manchester Central a couple of years ago was how I see they should be run, that had a couple of hundred attendees. The annual budget ones pre-GMCA where they discussed capital spending as well as revenue spending were also well attended, probably around 100 members of the public each year, since they restricted it to revenue questions only public attendance has been what 30-40 members of the public?

In my experience of attending them it should be quality over quantity, they should be a focal point in general public consultation on policies and priorities held annually or semi-annually in the city centre with nothing off the table for discussion.

 

[Tetchytyke]

cutting the free Metroshuttle buses... its an easy saving for TfGM to make in that respect

I thought the funding for the Manchester city centre Metroshuttles came from National Car Parks, partly as a way of linking their car parks to the shops?

I doubt NCP would be very impressed at TfGM trying to impose a charge on top of their funding.

 

[northwichcat]

I thought the funding for the Manchester city centre Metroshuttles came from National Car Parks, partly as a way of linking their car parks to the shops?

I doubt NCP would be very impressed at TfGM trying to impose a charge on top of their funding.

TfGM must provide funding towards it if they are proposing cutting their subsidy by £0.4m.

It's likely the funding arrangement is similar to what the free Chester rail shuttle used to be like. However, Cheshire West council had to withdraw their subsidy as a rival commercial service was registered* and the other parties funding the service (Virgin, Merseyrail, ATW and Northern) weren't obliged to fund the shortfall or to subside a fare paying bus so the free service went.

 

[WatcherZero]

The policy on Metroshuttle services in the county is TfGM will pay half if the local council/private sponsors agree to pay the other half.

 

[Robertj21a]

I was at the tuesday meeting, attendees were mostly councillors, press, TfGM staff, disabled groups and a few elderly freinds of station/bus services groups. Most entertaining element was a ranting old man who demanded that his requests to be appointed to sit on TfGM committee's was being ignored. While TfGM said their consultation with disability/users groups was strong there was a general public consensus at the meeting that the quality of public consultation had declined over the last 5 years since they axed the four town hall Q&A sessions each year in each of the ten districts. They said the 40 meetings a year that used to be run was too expensive and they barely had the staff after the cuts to hold any public meetings at all, 15% fewer headcount having to manage a annual capital spend five times as large as it was a decade ago.

Main gist was hard savings already made but even more need to be made though they will mostly fall on TfGM staff (20% cut ontop of a existing 15% cut). They are axing subsidy for night bus services on the ground of cost/usage so these services will have to be purely commercial in future (though any of you who use them will know they already have vast ticket prices). Council tax local levy for revenue services will be cut by 3% while that for capital projects will be increased by 3% for a net 0% change in council tax. Savings in procurement of subsidised services need to be made but they will prioritise reduced frequency over axing of services.

Metroshuttle funding didnt come up, there was a man who demanded that Yellow bus ticket prices were raised to the same level as commercial bus fares for the same distance and it was unfair that those who used commercial services had to pay more. Currently of course yellow bus fares in GM are a flat zonal distance based fare while commercial fares are set by the operators. I asked and they confirmed that they were looking at generating a couple of million pounds from commercial opportunities such as station name sponsorship (e.g. the For Bolton University bit under Bolton platform signs, but only as the subtitle, they wont sanction a primary name change as it would be confusing/require changing again when the sponsorship ended) advertising in larger interchanges/city centre stations and on vehicles, etc...

Quite surprised to see that anybody is subsidising night services - or are these really early morning 'workers' services ?.

Robert

 

[northwichcat]

Quite surprised to see that anybody is subsidising night services - or are these really early morning 'workers' services ?.

Robert

The Manchester night buses are probably intended to prevent people drink driving.

Details on the nightbuses are here: http://tfgm.com/buses/Pages/nightbus.aspx Some of them already are commercial.