Building on flood-plains

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If what is claimed to be true regarding the type of future weather patterns to affect Britain, how might this affect the future political thought on the matter of building large numbers of new homes in flood-plain areas, that are said to be desperately needed, in parts of the south of England.

 

[LexyBoy]

I would imagine the same head-in-the-sand thinking that led to building on flood plains in the first place would apply. Unfortunately of course it's often not the new-builds that are affected but older properties downstream, either because of the loss of flood plains or a deliberate choice by the EA to allow those places to flood in preference to the new developments.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

If what is claimed to be true regarding the type of future weather patterns to affect Britain, how might this affect the future political thought on the matter of building large numbers of new homes in flood-plain areas, that are said to be desperately needed, in parts of the south of England.

I wonder which seem more desperately needed at the moment - the flood-prone new houses or the flood plains on which they are/are to be built?

Of course the problem is not confined to houses. Roads and railways are built on flood plains and many people continue to be surprised and angry every time they are innundated.

 

[Johnuk123]

We don't need any new houses at all what we need is less population growth.

 

[gordonthemoron]

what we need is for everybody to move to Hull

 

[Johnuk123]

what we need is for everybody to move to Hull

What we need to do is to force all asylum seekers/illegals/benefit tourists etc. etc. to live in Dundee then hope Scotland votes to go independent.

 

[Greenback]

A retired physicist told me last year that in 50 years time the ice cap that feeds in to the Gulf Stream will have melted, basically meaning that there won't be a Gulf Stream any more. He said that this would mean much colder weather for the UK and Norway.

When I asked if the melting would mean a rise in sea level with parts of the country being lost he became a little vague, saying it was impossible to be specific but that sea levels would rise, but perhaps only by a tiny amount.

Whatever happens, I think it is more important for the UK to become less dependent economically on London and the south east so that new homes don't have to be built on flodo plains at all.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

What we need to do is to force all asylum seekers/illegals/benefit tourists etc. etc. to live in Dundee then hope Scotland votes to go independent.

We would need new housing for all the Brits who live abroad who would be sent back to the UK if other countries followed your reasoning!

 

[Manchester77]

I live in an area which has quite a strictly enforced flood management scheme. The Mersey through the Stretford and Urmston area (by the M60) has quite a clear distinctive flood plain, the area has land not used by residential properties but by recreational grounds. There's also high embankments which protect the land anyway. This poses the question; why can the EA enforce land use management in this area but not in other areas?

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I'd vote for making all those who have their entire garden monoblocked over pay a surcharge on their council tax for as a penalty for contributing to the problem. (Or they can join a rota to cut my grass).

 

[fowler9]

What we need to do is to force all asylum seekers/illegals/benefit tourists etc. etc. to live in Dundee then hope Scotland votes to go independent.

Well that is a tiny proportion of the population so what do we do about everyone else? George Monbiot did an interesting piece in the Guardian the other day about flood defences and how removal of trees at higher altitudes and modern flood defences are causing floods in some places.

 

[SS4]

What we need to do is to force all asylum seekers/illegals/benefit tourists etc. etc. to live in Dundee then hope Scotland votes to go independent.

All we need now is your foolproof plan to determine just who falls into the above categories. I'm sure you can succeed where professionals have failed for decades :roll:


IMO we should be looking at curbing ownership of second homes through taxation - moreso if these second homes are empty for a long portion of the year.

 

[fowler9]

Coming over here, taking our jobs, stealing our women, claiming our benefits. yadda yadda. Ha ha.

 

[GB]

We don't need any new houses at all what we need is less population growth.

What we need is more affordable housing.

 

[gswindale]

What we need is more affordable housing.

But not more "social" housing!

It is important to distinguish between the 2, which is something the government is not always good at doing! (all parties suffer with this problem).

 

[YorkshireBear]

Its cheap land so why not build on it? :roll:

I do think some engineers over the century have been a little negligent or maybe we just didn't understand. Flood plains are flood plains for a reason i do not see why we ever built on them.

Of course impermeable land is now just as much of a problem. Too many hard surfaces not enough open ground and trees to disrupt it. Steps are being taken but its too late. We have already created the problem and the government as always with environmental problems can't be bothered doing anything or educating anyone. Just shrugging off responsibility.

 

[Ploughman]

New estates reliant on 1960s drainage systems to get to the outfall.
Drains already at capacity and no prospect of any improvement.

 

[fowler9]

We need loads more social housing. Turning homes in to investments has almost been the ruin of this country.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It matters not a jot if the housing is either social or private housing if a decision is made to build on known flood plains, this being the raison d'etre of this particular thread.

 

[TheKnightWho]

What we need to do is to force all asylum seekers/illegals/benefit tourists etc. etc. to live in Dundee then hope Scotland votes to go independent.

I am struggling to see how this would be of any benefit to us whatsoever.

But then, I suppose you don't actually ever have to see these people in real life, do you.

All we need now is your foolproof plan to determine just who falls into the above categories. I'm sure you can succeed where professionals have failed for decades :roll:


IMO we should be looking at curbing ownership of second homes through taxation - moreso if these second homes are empty for a long portion of the year.

I'm sure we can all guess what the main criterion would be

Coming over here, taking our jobs, stealing our women, claiming our benefits. yadda yadda. Ha ha.

Stealing our jobs and coming over to take our benefits are fundamentally contradictory claims, which is what makes the whole thing hilarious...

 

[fowler9]

It matters not a jot if the housing is either social or private housing if a decision is made to build on known flood plains, this being the raison d'etre of this particular thread.

Sorry Paul, that is of course correct. I was letting a personal opinion about social housing seep in there.

George Monbiots article in the Guardian about some farmers in the Welsh borders planting more trees and the science behind it was brilliant. Owen Patterson really doesn't appear to have a clue about the environment which is worrying.

 

[Oswyntail]

What we need is more affordable housing.

No such thing, really. Build a house and sell it at local average-50%, say. House prices are generally at a level dictated by supply and desirability. First owner sells house, but, strangely, they find they can get a much better price than they paid for it. Bingo, "affordable" house reaches same price as surrounding ones. What is desperately needed is to choke off the supply of cheap money, particularly by restricting the ratio of mortgage to salary. Then house prices generally should fall.
Building on flood plains would become unnecessary, as well as being insane.

 

[fowler9]

No such thing, really. Build a house and sell it at local average-50%, say. House prices are generally at a level dictated by supply and desirability. First owner sells house, but, strangely, they find they can get a much better price than they paid for it. Bingo, "affordable" house reaches same price as surrounding ones. What is desperately needed is to choke off the supply of cheap money, particularly by restricting the ratio of mortgage to salary. Then house prices generally should fall.
Building on flood plains would become unnecessary, as well as being insane.

You could be right there. Property is massively over valued, I'm not 100% on the reasons why. People with good jobs are buying hovels for more than the price that you would get a nice semi detached a few years ago with an average job.

 

[SS4]

No such thing, really. Build a house and sell it at local average-50%, say. House prices are generally at a level dictated by supply and desirability. First owner sells house, but, strangely, they find they can get a much better price than they paid for it. Bingo, "affordable" house reaches same price as surrounding ones. What is desperately needed is to choke off the supply of cheap money, particularly by restricting the ratio of mortgage to salary. Then house prices generally should fall.
Building on flood plains would become unnecessary, as well as being insane.

What do you think about the idea that houses are deliberately not being built to restrict supply in order to artificially raise prices?

 

[Amberley54]

What do you think about the idea that houses are deliberately not being built to restrict supply in order to artificially raise prices?

The evidence to back up your suspicion is the fact that the big volume house builders ' land banks have been growing steadily over the past five years, but they refuse to develop if they have to include any significant affordable housing in the development and /or the planning authority requires them to provide any meaningful benefit to the local community via section 108 payments.

Tthey instead bully and blackmail local planning authorities into granting permission on unnecessary greenfield sites for yet more 'executive' developments - the most wasteful type of residential development that contributes nothing to resolving our mounting crisis.

 

[fowler9]

There is no doubt in my mind, not for a second, that houses are not being build in order to keep house prices up. There are huge swathes of brown field sites in Liverpool which are being left empty. A good area of which is off Smithdown Road if anyone knows that area. It currently looks like some kind of comedy park.

 

[Oswyntail]

What do you think about the idea that houses are deliberately not being built to restrict supply in order to artificially raise prices?

It depends. I very much doubt that there is a vast, government-led conspiracy, as governments tend to have difficulty planning anything much. Raising house prices helps no one, as the builders are left with unsaleable stock, and no one can sell at any point in the market, so I doubt that is deliberate. What I do see, though, is that those who own land with development potential are seeing its value as an asset rise steeply, so, effectively it is more profitable not to build houses and keep that asset intact than reduce its value with costly new build. The real question is why land value is rising so steeply, and I suspect that is because the politicians are emphasising building as a means of boosting the economy (really a fallacy). This also leads to the paradoxical situation where it is more cost-effective to buy and build on land really unsuitable for building, such as flood-plains, than on prime building land.

 

[Bevan Price]

A retired physicist told me last year that in 50 years time the ice cap that feeds in to the Gulf Stream will have melted, basically meaning that there won't be a Gulf Stream any more. He said that this would mean much colder weather for the UK and Norway.

When I asked if the melting would mean a rise in sea level with parts of the country being lost he became a little vague, saying it was impossible to be specific but that sea levels would rise, but perhaps only by a tiny amount.

Whatever happens, I think it is more important for the UK to become less dependent economically on London and the south east so that new homes don't have to be built on flodo plains at all.

"Much colder" probably means semi-permanent snow / ice cover over parts of Scotland and maybe parts of Northern England. - a new mini "ice age". Some winters with temperatures like some of those recently occurring in parts of Canada & USA.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

"Much colder" probably means semi-permanent snow / ice cover over parts of Scotland and maybe parts of Northern England. - a new mini "ice age". Some winters with temperatures like some of those recently occurring in parts of Canada & USA.

Would you think that all the recent statements made by various Governments of differing hues in Britain used the global warning scenario when they made predications of how that aspect would affect Britain, without any referral to the points made that you mention in your quote above which would leave Britain in a totally different climatic situation.

There was a "mini-ice age" for a period of time in the last millennium when "frost fairs" were held on the frozen waters of the River Thames, just to give one example.

 

[Class172]

There was a "mini-ice age" for a period of time in the last millennium when "frost fairs" were held on the frozen waters of the River Thames, just to give one example.

I guess you refer to the "little ice age" which occurred in the latter half of the last millennium: this apparently coincided with an extended period of reduced solar activity, and it is thought this can have an effect on the weather.