Funding sought for four new Dumfries & Galloway stations

[MidnightFlyer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-25657914

A bid is to be made to secure funding to build new railway stations across Dumfries and Galloway.

The local authority said it wanted to tap into a £30m fund set up by the Scottish government.

The council's Labour-SNP administration has unveiled plans to seek government funding to establish up to four new local train stops.

In order of priority, they could be at Thornhill, Eastriggs, Dunragit/Glenluce and Beattock.

The first two on the list have both been subject to studies which showed that new rail stations would bring major benefits to the wider community.

The council, which plans to draw up the cash bid in conjunction with local transport partnership SWESTRANS, would also like to see the development of a rail passenger facility serving Dunragit and Glenluce.

A campaign is already under way in Beattock to reopen the former station in the village.

Passenger figures
The proposed funding application will also include proposals to refurbish the train station at Stranraer.

Councillor Colin Smyth, who chairs the economy, environment and infrastructure committee, admitted that some of the proposals were more realistic than others.

However, he said the authority hoped to secure some financial support from the Scottish government.

He said the latest passenger figures suggested that the number of people travelling by train was growing and it was important that the region had the facilities in place to cater for them.

He added that improving the rail network meant better links for business which could also help boost the local economy.

Interesting proposals. Thornhill looks to be a sizeable community (by local standards), and could also potentially serve the likes of Beattock, Moffat and Leadhills. As, like Eastriggs, it is situated on the Glasgow & South Western it shouldn't be a huge hindrance to any timetabling. It will be interesting to see how Eastriggs's case is affected by both Gretna Green and Annan being so close by.

Dunragit will probably give some indication as to what the Stranraer line's future is. Further, with the A74 being rerouted away from the village / railway line it will be interesting to see how the more complex accessibility affects the case.

Beattock is the most interesting one. I imagine it could be justified in terms of passenger figures but I can't imagine where you'd fit it into a timetable unless you eventually had some form of local service along the WCML, which I can't imagine. Would it be worthwhile TPE serving it a couple of times a day, and then even if the timetable needs to be so sporadic, will this affect the business case?

I am also intrigued by what the proposed work to be done at Stranraer station is.

 

[Altnabreac]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-25657914



Interesting proposals. Thornhill looks to be a sizeable community (by local standards), and could also potentially serve the likes of Beattock, Moffat and Leadhills. As, like Eastriggs, it is situated on the Glasgow & South Western it shouldn't be a huge hindrance to any timetabling. It will be interesting to see how Eastriggs's case is affected by both Gretna Green and Annan being so close by.

Dunragit will probably give some indication as to what the Stranraer line's future is. Further, with the A74 being rerouted away from the village / railway line it will be interesting to see how the more complex accessibility affects the case.

Beattock is the most interesting one. I imagine it could be justified in terms of passenger figures but I can't imagine where you'd fit it into a timetable unless you eventually had some form of local service along the WCML, which I can't imagine. Would it be worthwhile TPE serving it a couple of times a day, and then even if the timetable needs to be so sporadic, will this affect the business case?

I am also intrigued by what the proposed work to be done at Stranraer station is.

All look good options worth investigating.

Thornhill has a decent population of 1,500 or so and is in a strategic position to act as a rail head for surrounding villages. Main downside (and probably the reason why it hasn't reopened before now) is that the station is around 1 mile outside the actual town so it is likely to be mainly a park and ride rather than a solution for people without cars, who will continue to use the bus. Still think it has potential though.

Eastriggs will I think have the best business case. Again a population of 1,500 or so, a decent station location and potential for commuting in both directions to Dumfries and Carlisle (and indeed Gretna Green for the outlet village). The Dumfries to Carlisle trains always seems busy with a good mix of commuters, shoppers and tourists. Although its close to Annan I think the numbers will definitely make sense here.

Beattock is a tricky one. Its a small village, albeit serving a decent hinterland, including nearby Moffat which has a population of 2,500. But the question is what services will stop there? Extra stops in TPE Manchester services are a possibility but the disbenefits may be too high. I would imagine any station would need to be considered jointly with South Lanarkshire alongside Symington (for Biggar) and possibly Abington to try and make the case for a new WCML local service. There are certainly gaps in the current service at Lockerbie that a new service could cover in the same way as the new Scotrail Dunbar service operates but the WCML is busier and timetabling could be tricky.

Dunragit again makes sense now that the boat train traffic has gone from Stranraer. Dunragit and Glenluce have a low population but there are a couple of tourist attractions nearby and it has potential to act as a railhead for Whithorn and the Rhins. Given the low passenger numbers on the current line any journey time disbenefits are likely to be outweighed by the value of the new traffic. A new station would be a positive sign that the government sees a future for the Stranraer line. Might happen together with the proposed recast of services to have less through Glasgow trains.

I presume the Stranraer station proposals are a revival of the plan to relocate the station from the Harbour to somewhere closer to the town centre, again this is overdue and would be another positive sign that the line has a sustainable future.

 

[paddy1]

Several years ago Dumfries and Galloway Council commisioned a study for consultants to assess the feasibility of a local service along the WCML between Carlisle and Glasgow serving new stations at Beattock (serving as railhead for Moffat), Abington, Symington and others, one of the aims being to encourage settlement and to offer local people easier access to the large cities for commuting etc..

Anyone know what the outcome was and whether there have been any developments relating to this since then?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is it not the case that other areas of Scotland have made similar transport submissions that they claim will help their own communities ?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Several years ago Dumfries and Galloway Council commisioned a study for consultants to assess the feasibility of a local service along the WCML between Carlisle and Glasgow serving new stations at Beattock (serving as railhead for Moffat), Abington, Symington and others, one of the aims being to encourage settlement and to offer local people easier access to the large cities for commuting etc..

Anyone know what the outcome was and whether there have been any developments relating to this since then?

Afraid I dont know however my first thought here was that any local service neednt go any further than Carstairs due to the 2 hourly service there between Glasgow and Edinburgh that could be used for connections.

Someone else mentioned Thornhill station Location - I should think that despite this the service would be popular as the bus is irregular, slow and costly and for those who dont drive use of a taxibus link would work well here to connect with trains.↲

 

[harz99]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-25657914



Interesting proposals. Thornhill looks to be a sizeable community (by local standards), and could also potentially serve the likes of Beattock, Moffat and Leadhills. As, like Eastriggs, it is situated on the Glasgow & South Western it shouldn't be a huge hindrance to any timetabling. It will be interesting to see how Eastriggs's case is affected by both Gretna Green and Annan being so close by.

Dunragit will probably give some indication as to what the Stranraer line's future is. Further, with the A74 being rerouted away from the village / railway line it will be interesting to see how the more complex accessibility affects the case.

Beattock is the most interesting one. I imagine it could be justified in terms of passenger figures but I can't imagine where you'd fit it into a timetable unless you eventually had some form of local service along the WCML, which I can't imagine. Would it be worthwhile TPE serving it a couple of times a day, and then even if the timetable needs to be so sporadic, will this affect the business case?

I am also intrigued by what the proposed work to be done at Stranraer station is.

Interesting, but only a wish list that will no doubt be equalled by other Councils, and £30m will not stretch very far. With the current Scottish Government and it's record of spending mostly in the Central Belt and further north , I don't see D&G getting much, if anything at all from the list.

Anyhow, the order I would put the projects in is Beattock, Dunragit, Thornhill and Eastriggs. Others have given valid reasons for the last three options, so I am not going to revisit that side of matters.

Beattock does not require a local service to be added, it simply needs the existing TPE trains to call, which should be possible using the time released by the improved performance of the 350s over the 185s. Also the gaps in service that Lockerbie currently has will be all but eliminated from May, so it should be possible to provide a decent level of service to all destinations from Beattock as well.

As regards Stranraer, I suspect that D&G are looking for money to refurb the EXISTING station. They have after all, spent the original money that was supposedly ring-fenced for the proposed Transport Interchange on other matters in Stranraer - I don't see the SG looking favourably on paying again for new station.

Time will tell.

 

[Altnabreac]

Is it not the case that other areas of Scotland have made similar transport submissions that they claim will help their own communities ?

The £32m of Scottish Stations fund money is meant to be given out to projects pre-approved by Regional Transport Partnerships (RTPs). http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...rail2014/Scottish_Stations_Fund_Process_0.pdf
I can’t see any evidence that anyone has actually applied yet, but the money will be available from April 2014 so we’ll probably see more stories like this in the next wee while.

I’ve looked through the minutes of each RTP to try and find which stations if any they are considering putting forward for the plan. In terms of new stations there seem to be:

SPT
Robroyston, Ravenscraig and Plains.
http://www.spt.co.uk/documents/latest/sp291113_agenda7.pdf

SESTRAN
East Linton, Reston, Winchburgh, Bonnybridge, Grangemouth, Cambus and Newburgh.
http://www.sestran.gov.uk/uploads/newsletter_oct_2013.pdf

SWESTRANS
Thornhill, Eastriggs, Beattock and Dunragit/Glen Luce.
http://swestrans.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=13293&p=0

NESTRANS
Kintore
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...xYCIAQ&usg=AFQjCNGIDHbNIrgk2rhWH_17JNpjwYFgnA

HITRANS
Dalcross (Inverness Airport)
http://www.hitrans.org.uk/Documents/Item_13_-_Network_Rail_s_Strategic_Business_Plan.pdf

TACTRAN
None that I can find.

ZETTRANS
No railways in Shetland!

So that's 16 new stations plus the various refurbishment/enhancement schemes knocking about. The £32m obviously won't cover all the schemes on the list in CP5 without additional funding sources from developers and local authorities.

I'd say from this list the ones most likely to happen in CP5 are Winchburgh, Ravenscraig, Kintore, Dalcross and East Linton. These all have a reasonable amount of work already done on funding, developer contributions, business case, etc. They also fit relatively easily into existing timetabled services (or will do after planned upgrades like electrifiction at Winchburgh).

SG usually like a geographical spread for funds like this so you'd say one of the SWESTRANS stations is likely to make the cut as well. Probably Eastrigg or Thornhill as they are fairly easy to do.

 

[poshfan]

Thornhill has a decent population of 1,500 or so ... Main downside (and probably the reason why it hasn't reopened before now) is that the station is around 1 mile outside the actual town

I have often noticed how village residents have a lower distance tolerance than town dwellers, most townies would not regard a 1 mile (15 mins) walk to their local station as overly long, especially if it avoids town centre jams and parking charges.

 

[Eagle]

Beattock does not require a local service to be added, it simply needs the existing TPE trains to call, which should be possible using the time released by the improved performance of the 350s over the 185s.

Although some would say that the time released would be better used by adding calls at Motherwell instead.

 

[harz99]

Although some would say that the time released would be better used by adding calls at Motherwell instead.

They might but only on the trains that go to Glasgow:grin:.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I have often noticed how village residents have a lower distance tolerance than town dwellers, most townies would not regard a 1 mile (15 mins) walk to their local station as overly long, especially if it avoids town centre jams and parking charges.

I think people are generally tolerant up until the point something isn't in their settlement (or within about 500 yards of it). It's a psychological thing.

 

[bluenoxid]

The £32m of Scottish Stations fund money is meant to be given out to projects pre-approved by Regional Transport Partnerships (RTPs). http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...rail2014/Scottish_Stations_Fund_Process_0.pdf
I can’t see any evidence that anyone has actually applied yet, but the money will be available from April 2014 so we’ll probably see more stories like this in the next wee while.

I’ve looked through the minutes of each RTP to try and find which stations if any they are considering putting forward for the plan. In terms of new stations there seem to be:

SPT
Robroyston, Ravenscraig and Plains.
http://www.spt.co.uk/documents/latest/sp291113_agenda7.pdf

SESTRAN
East Linton, Reston, Winchburgh, Bonnybridge, Grangemouth, Cambus and Newburgh.
http://www.sestran.gov.uk/uploads/newsletter_oct_2013.pdf

SWESTRANS
Thornhill, Eastriggs, Beattock and Dunragit/Glen Luce.
http://swestrans.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=13293&p=0

NESTRANS
Kintore
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...xYCIAQ&usg=AFQjCNGIDHbNIrgk2rhWH_17JNpjwYFgnA

HITRANS
Dalcross (Inverness Airport)
http://www.hitrans.org.uk/Documents/Item_13_-_Network_Rail_s_Strategic_Business_Plan.pdf

TACTRAN
None that I can find.

ZETTRANS
No railways in Shetland!

So that's 16 new stations plus the various refurbishment/enhancement schemes knocking about. The £32m obviously won't cover all the schemes on the list in CP5 without additional funding sources from developers and local authorities.

I'd say from this list the ones most likely to happen in CP5 are Winchburgh, Ravenscraig, Kintore, Dalcross and East Linton. These all have a reasonable amount of work already done on funding, developer contributions, business case, etc. They also fit relatively easily into existing timetabled services (or will do after planned upgrades like electrifiction at Winchburgh).

SG usually like a geographical spread for funds like this so you'd say one of the SWESTRANS stations is likely to make the cut as well. Probably Eastrigg or Thornhill as they are fairly easy to do.

TACTRANs - Dundee West???

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Does anyone know how the Dunragit/Glenluce proposal would work? I don't know the area, but looking on Google maps, the two villages are a long way apart. A station only for Glenluce looks workable (based only on Google maps, I don't know the area) as it's a reasonable sized settlement and the rail line goes right past it. You could position a station within easy walking distance of the entire village. The line also goes right past Dunragit, but that doesn't look remotely big enough to justify a station there.

But a station for *both* communities at the same time? Unless they're planning to build a rather useless park-and-ride halfway between them, that doesn't seem possible.

???

 

[snowball]

It would be interesting to know the exact location of the proposed station there. On the basis of seeing it from the A75 and on the OS map, I'd say Dunragit scarcely merits being described as a hamlet. A bypass is under construction on the A75, not because there's a significant number of houses to bypass, but to bypass the low railway bridge. Glenluce is a proper village but a mile or more from the railway.

However there are other stations that are further from the village they're named after.

Edit: thinking about it some more, the most likely location seems to be near the existing Dunragit railway bridge. It's at least a couple of miles by road from Glenluce, but you can't do an awful lot better than that without reopening the Dumfries-Stranraer line/

 

[jopsuk]

I have often noticed how village residents have a lower distance tolerance than town dwellers, most townies would not regard a 1 mile (15 mins) walk to their local station as overly long, especially if it avoids town centre jams and parking charges.

A 1 mile walk through town, where there's street lighting, pavements and traffic speeds are usually 30mph or less, is a different prospect to 1 mile on an unlit national speed limit road that may or may not have a footway.

 

[harz99]

Does anyone know how the Dunragit/Glenluce proposal would work? I don't know the area, but looking on Google maps, the two villages are a long way apart. A station only for Glenluce looks workable (based only on Google maps, I don't know the area) as it's a reasonable sized settlement and the rail line goes right past it. You could position a station within easy walking distance of the entire village. The line also goes right past Dunragit, but that doesn't look remotely big enough to justify a station there.

But a station for *both* communities at the same time? Unless they're planning to build a rather useless park-and-ride halfway between them, that doesn't seem possible.

???

A station with any sort of parking and vehicle access at Glenluce is pretty nigh impossible due to the railway infrastructure being at height on an embankment. Unless huge amounts of money were spent, you would only end up with a short halt, with steep pedestrian access, no parking - much the same as Barrhill.

Dunragit on the other hand has land beside the railway, which if available to purchase could see a simple interchange and parking area easily constructed with a view to the station acting as a railhead for the immediate area and further afield.

The immediate population of either site probably doesn't warrant such schemes, but in an area with very poor public transport and a rail line needing regeneration it might be money well spent.

 

[Altnabreac]

A station with any sort of parking and vehicle access at Glenluce is pretty nigh impossible due to the railway infrastructure being at height on an embankment. Unless huge amounts of money were spent, you would only end up with a short halt, with steep pedestrian access, no parking - much the same as Barrhill.

Dunragit on the other hand has land beside the railway, which if available to purchase could see a simple interchange and parking area easily constructed with a view to the station acting as a railhead for the immediate area and further afield.

The immediate population of either site probably doesn't warrant such schemes, but in an area with very poor public transport and a rail line needing regeneration it might be money well spent.

Looking at the Dunragit Bypass plans:
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/projects/trunk-road-projects/a75-dunragit-bypass-project

The bypass does not have a direct junction with the existing road in the area of the railway overbridge. It does however have direct access onto Station Road which was the former Dunragit station location just to the west of the village by the level crossing. Given this I think it is more likely the station will be located in Dunragit at the former station site. Both Dunragit and Glenluce are too small to justify the station on their own so road access to villages in the Rhins and the Machars is likely to be key to its success.

A station in the area of Glenluce abbey would be technically difficult to build and still a fair distance from Glenluce village. Road access would be much poorer down narrow country lanes.

A station located 200m from the new bypass junction is much more likely to work. See Station Road C52 in this plan here for potential location:
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...ine_drawing_-_final_as_published_-_1_of_2.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

TACTRANs - Dundee West???

Indeed I can give you a list of stations considered for reopening by TACTRAN in recent years:

Dundee West (replacing Invergowrie), Blackford (replacing Gleneagles), Bannockburn, Greenloaning are all mentioned here:
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S3_PublicPetitionsCommittee/Submissions_08/08-PE1115P.pdf

Although this explicitly suggests that Blackford and Greenloaning are no longer favoured for reopening.

I have also seen plans over the years for stations at Bridge of Earn, Causewayhead, St Madoes and Errol but none of them seem to be currently under consideration.

However I can't see any post 2012 discussion of sites being put forward by TACTRAN for the Scottish Stations Fund? Dundee West and Bannockburn are the two that might have a reasonable business case.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

A station with any sort of parking and vehicle access at Glenluce is pretty nigh impossible due to the railway infrastructure being at height on an embankment. Unless huge amounts of money were spent, you would only end up with a short halt, with steep pedestrian access, no parking - much the same as Barrhill.

OK, thanks for the explanation.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It would be interesting to know the exact location of the proposed station there. On the basis of seeing it from the A75 and on the OS map, I'd say Dunragit scarcely merits being described as a hamlet. A bypass is under construction on the A75, not because there's a significant number of houses to bypass, but to bypass the low railway bridge. Glenluce is a proper village but a mile or more from the railway.

As an update to the A75 bypass mentioned above, that is of 5.3 kilometres in length, from week commencing 13th January, the A75 will be temporarily diverted on a 500 metre temporary road stretch at Daisy Knowe, situated between Dunragit and Glenluce.

Historically speaking, there have been railway bridge strikes in the Dunragit area over the years at the railway bridge mentioned in the quote above.

 

[PaulLothian]

Have only just caught up with this interesting thread.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-25657914
Interesting proposals. Thornhill looks to be a sizeable community (by local standards), and could also potentially serve the likes of Beattock, Moffat and Leadhills...

There is of course no direct road linking Beattock and Moffat to Thornhill. Dumfries and Lockerbie are both much nearer. And if going north, for an extra 5 miles of driving, you could be accessing the Strathclyde network at Lanark.