Why is there so much freight through Königswinter? (Germany)

[stuartmoss]

Hi All,

I've just got back from 2 days in lovely Königswinter, and WOW the amount of freight through that station in 24 hours is absolutely incredible. I'm just sorting some sample videos out now but I've never seen as much freight through a station before, particularly one with only two through lines. It was literally one train every 4 minutes, and even more so at night, particularly between 1:30am and 2:30am, when the level crossing stayed down for 20 minutes at one point.

Does anyone know why this line is so busy with freight? Where is it all coming from and going to?

Cheers

Stu.

 

[30907]

At a guess: North Sea Ports and industrial Northern Germany to/from, industrial Southern Germany, and pretty much anywhere in Europe between (say) the Rhone Valley route through France and the routes through Austria. Plus the Saarland and Lorraine as far as Koblenz. No wonder wagon noise is a live issue in the Rhine Valley!
There is effectively no alternative route in that part of Germany, and of course the line is relatively easily graded.

http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/ds_redaktion/news.php?DS=1&p=1&id=544#544 gives a list from last summer with timings for Linz, Remagen, Boppard and St Goarshausen (haven't checked the abbreviations against a list) - even without checking the details or knowing German, the origins and destinations will give you an idea (BTW a couple of passenger trains have escaped being edited out!)

BTW you chose the busiest section too - most freight takes the right bank of the Rhine (downstream), and Intercity passenger the left bank.

 

[LouJ]

Many lines in Germany are as busy with some even busier! The traffic down the Rhine is on one of the major north south routes. Much of the traffic originates from Rotterdam and other ports plus local traffic generated within Germany. Destinations could be anywhere from switzerland to Hungary.

I live in Stafford and local enthusiasts are happy when we get 6 freights an hour. They never believe me when I rave about freight traffic levels on DB. Around Hannover you can get 20 freights an hour, hamburg area maybe more, Augsburg up to 16 an hour at night ...

As an aside Britain could learn a lot from germany on how to mix freight and passenger to make the best of available paths.

 

[317666]

The line from Hamm(Westf) to Bielefeld is another freight hotspot, it's the longest section of four-track mainline in Germany IIRC. Overtook countless freights while on an ICE.

 

[stuartmoss]

Here's a sample of what goes on at night there: http://youtu.be/D6NfHSnvF6I

I'll upload a day video next week, just off to Latvia now!

 

[shx]

I live in Stafford and local enthusiasts are happy when we get 6 freights an hour. They never believe me when I rave about freight traffic levels on DB. Around Hannover you can get 20 freights an hour, hamburg area maybe more, Augsburg up to 16 an hour at night ...

Almost all overseas traffic for countries to the south and east of Germany runs through our lines - even Norway/Sweden get a significant share through Germany.
On top, Europe got a common carriage profile - UK's profile is significantly smaller, prohibiting large scale freight traffic from/to the continent.

 

[steevp]

As an aside Britain could learn a lot from germany on how to mix freight and passenger to make the best of available paths.

For someone unfamiliar with this, please could you elaborate - is it just a case of having lots of passing loops or is there something else that makes the pathing of a mix of traffic better in Germany? Thanks

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

For someone unfamiliar with this, please could you elaborate - is it just a case of having lots of passing loops or is there something else that makes the pathing of a mix of traffic better in Germany? Thanks

Germany and neighbouring countries make a lot of use of bi-directional running.
You might get switched to the "other" line to overtake a stopper or a freight, then back to the normal line. Or the other train uses the "wrong" track.
No need for passing loops, and all done at speed.
We have stretches of bi-di signalling but they seem to be of limited functionality and rarely used, mainly during engineering work.

 

[steevp]

Thanks LNW-GW Joint - just what I needed to know

 

[bangor-toad]

You might get switched to the "other" line to overtake a stopper or a freight, then back to the normal line. Or the other train uses the "wrong" track.
No need for passing loops, and all done at speed.

Hi there,
I don't know enough about this to be authoritative but I can't see how this could work with an intensive service.

If you have a high flow in both directions then passing / overtaking on the "wrong side" is going to use up an incredible number of paths in the other direction. I can't see how this could improve total capacity at all as it seems to introduce all the complexities of single line working...

Now if there was a large inbalance between flows, ie lots northbound and only a few southbound then perhaps it'd work.
If not, it'd need really precise timing and any delay would massively propogate through the system.

I can't see how this methodology is helpful or beneficial. Am I missing something?
Cheers,
Jason

 

[DownSouth]

Hi there,
I don't know enough about this to be authoritative but I can't see how this could work with an intensive service.

If you have a high flow in both directions then passing / overtaking on the "wrong side" is going to use up an incredible number of paths in the other direction. I can't see how this could improve total capacity at all as it seems to introduce all the complexities of single line working...

Now if there was a large inbalance between flows, ie lots northbound and only a few southbound then perhaps it'd work.
If not, it'd need really precise timing and any delay would massively propogate through the system.

I can't see how this methodology is helpful or beneficial. Am I missing something?
Cheers,
Jason

What you are missing is that neither freight timetables or passenger timetables on any route are evenly distributed across the day, they are weighted and grouped to get the most out of the route across a 24 hour period.

There are probably four keys that are essential for a proper mixed traffic railway:
1. Modern speed signalling, not old hat route signalling.
2. High speed turnouts fit for freight use at no less than ⅓ of the through line's maximum speed.
3. Many crossovers, passing loops and centre tracks which are long enough for stop-free overtaking.
4. The use of powerful electric locomotives on freight services.

Above all, what the UK is missing is a freight-positive attitude to the railways where it is seen to be a good thing for passenger and freight traffic to coexist and draw mutual benefits from the infrastructure instead of working as competitors trying to steal the benefits from the other side.

 

[30907]

If you have a high flow in both directions then passing / overtaking on the "wrong side" is going to use up an incredible number of paths in the other direction. I can't see how this could improve total capacity at all as it seems to introduce all the complexities of single line working...

I think that's a fair point, but where you've got a mix of traffic speedwise and a moderate frequency of service it can work very well, as the overtaken train doesn't need to stop.

The Rhine valley is basically worked as a 4-track main line: as a gross oversimplification, the left bank is used by IC/ICE services (half-hourly) and an hourly stopper (which gets overtaken 3 times between Koeln and Mainz, each time the conventional way during a station stop) while the right bank gets freight and stoppers (which make similar end-to-end times to the freights, so there's not much call for overtaking).

 

[LouJ]

For someone unfamiliar with this, please could you elaborate - is it just a case of having lots of passing loops or is there something else that makes the pathing of a mix of traffic better in Germany? Thanks

No the railway is better at using its resources including paths. The infrastructure is more developed and the use of high powered electrics means many freights run at passenger speeds.

The use of bi-di is also more prevalent. This coupled with a more flexible approach to operating means more traffic on all routes if required. As has been said above high speed points and crossings, flyovers and flyunders plus speed signalling all makes the traffic easier to operate.

Attitude to health and safety is different too. They don't jeopardise safety but have a different approach. For example when a train arrives at a station where it reverses and changes loco, then the loco is released immediately the train completes passing the loco siding points and within seconds the new engine is off into the station coupling up as the train comes to a stand! This practical approach is applied to everything on the railway including freight operation.

 

[Gordon]

You might get switched to the "other" line to overtake a stopper or a freight, then back to the normal line. Or the other train uses the "wrong" track.
No need for passing loops, and all done at speed.
.

I wouldn't agree. Quite a lot of use is made of passing loops and staging yards in Germany and Switzerland, the two countries where arguably the freight traffic is most intensive.

In Switzerland, trains often wait in loops for anything from a few minutes to an hour.

another reason is that in quite a few cases, the fastest express passengers trains now run on separate high speed lines so there is more capacity for freight - e.g. the Rhine valley in Germany

another reason is the increasing number of regular interval passenger timetables, for example on Swiss lines with a rigid half hourly interval passenger service this gives more than enough time for a freight train to travel a good distance before needing to be looped again.

The other reason as someone has already said is that much freight now travels fast enough to get between two main stations in between passengers slots.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hi All,
Königswinter, and WOW the amount of
Does anyone know why this line is so busy with freight? Where is it all coming from and going to?

Konigswinter is on the right bank of the Rhine, which has always been a major freight route linking northern and southern Europe - just as the barges on the adjacent Rhine link the Dutch ports with Switzerland. Before the Koln - FRankfurt ICE high speed line was built most passenger used the left bank and the right bank was mostly dedicated to freight (whilst maintaining the local stopping passenger service).

Although each bank railway is only two track - there are four tracks in total down the Rhine valley corridor - so the right bank is essentially the 'slow lines'

I have been visiting the Rhine gorge since the early 1960s just after I was born. In those days the right bank one was still steam operated



.

 

[stuartmoss]

Here's my daytime rail vid, this was shot over two fairly short periods:

[youtube]lsf79tVN-60[/youtube]