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Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

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Class377/5

Class377/5

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Paul Sidorczuk said:
Before today, when was the last time that a TOC used new and unliveried units on service runs ?
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Manchester77 said:
Arriving at Lancaster 60 minutes late
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Would it have been when the first batch of 350s were pooled between Central and Silverlink?
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Nope the last unbranded units in service from new were the 377/5 that were delivered in a base coat but no branding during 2009.
 
DynamicSpirit

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8A Rail said:
New grey livery?? It ain't for starters and it's the delivery pre livery finish just like the 350/1's and the 350/2's before they eventually got put into LM livery after (I think) a couple of years being in service.
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Interesting. I have to admit that comes as some relief to me since I far prefer the TPE purple to the gray of those new units.

But I'm now puzzled. Wouldn't it be cheaper and more efficient for the trains to be painted from the start in their intended TPE livery, rather than - as you seem to be implying - first painted a livery that isn't intended to be used, followed by a complete respray (or whatever they do to brand trains) soon afterwards?
 
Eagle

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It's not going to be repainted, it's going to be an all-over vinyl covering (same as the 185s, which still have their navy blue and silver undercoat under the vinyl).

The vinyls are being done in the UK, and so far the three units that have arrived have been too busy doing testing to have that done. As more units start arriving, there should be enough downtime for them to have the vinyl applied.
 
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47802

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Are we 100% sure these trains will have full branding given there is only a couple of years left on the franchise.
 
DynamicSpirit

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Eagle said:
It's not going to be repainted, it's going to be an all-over vinyl covering (same as the 185s, which still have their navy blue and silver undercoat under the vinyl).

The vinyls are being done in the UK, and so far the three units that have arrived have been too busy doing testing to have that done. As more units start arriving, there should be enough downtime for them to have the vinyl applied.
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Ah, OK. Thanks for the explanation, Eagle.
 
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BantamMenace

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Going back a page or two to where a "suitable replacement in future years" is talked about so TPE have a 'better' single fleet is it just me that things the 4 and 5 car voyagers should all be given to TPE with the addition of a pantograph car (and an addition vehicle where needed) to make them all 6car electric intercity stock.
The name of the project to do such a thing a few years ago escapes me but it seems a far better value for money option than an entire new fleet.
I think XC would benefit more from an entire new fleet of electric and bimode 6+ car units (iep or similar) as much of there routes will be under wires with only the extremities that aren't by the time we're talking about such a cascade occurring.
 
33Hz

33Hz

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It was just called the e-Voyager but it was dropped in September last year. It was claimed that the business case didn't stack up with the increasing electrification - straight EMUs being better.

I don't agree with that. Even with the electric spine and other projects proposed, there will be a lot of running under the wires for many years. Actually I think the problem will get worse before it gets better.
 
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YorkshireBear

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33Hz said:
It was just called the e-Voyager but it was dropped in September last year. It was claimed that the business case didn't stack up with the increasing electrification - straight EMUs being better.

I don't agree with that. Even with the electric spine and other projects proposed, there will be a lot of running under the wires for many years. Actually I think the problem will get worse before it gets better.
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You have been fooled that has nothing to do with it.

The price Bombardier were charging, and the fact that they were going to source all parts from their plants in Europe not Alstom in the UK as with the original ruined the business case.
 
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edwin_m

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The e-Voyager would have been very useful for CrossCountry as more of its routes were electrified but most of them still involving use of non-electrified sections. However I think they would be overkill for Transpennine - wrong interior layout with very poor boarding times, and 6 cars is probably too long for the outer ends of the TPE network that probably won't be electrified. I still think it has to be a new build of 3-car or 4-car 23-metre flat-ended EMUs with end gangways.
 
33Hz

33Hz

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YorkshireBear said:
You have been fooled that has nothing to do with it.

The price Bombardier were charging, and the fact that they were going to source all parts from their plants in Europe not Alstom in the UK as with the original ruined the business case.
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As I said above, I don't agree.

But before the project was canned Alstom were invited to bid according to Captain Deltic. From November 2012:


Informed Sources was an early proponent of the proposal to add a pantograph car to a Class 220 Voyager DEMU to create a dual mode train able to run under electric power under the wires. The last progress report was in the August Informed Sources, after it emerged that Bombardier, which had promoted e-Voyager as a way to preserve ‘British jobs’ at Derby, was planning to import the new electrical equipment from its works in Sweden, thus threatening jobs at Alstom’s Preston plant.

Alstom was invited to bid after all. And then it all went quiet until, early in October, Informed Sources reported that work on e-Voyager had been ‘quietly dropped’ back in mid September.

This was due to a combination of factors which mean that a business case acceptable to DfT can no longer be made.

Apart from the cost of the extra cars and modifying the existing vehicles, the expanding electrification programme means that it will be possible to cover more Voyager-type duties with straight EMUs. In its ICWC bid Virgin proposed replacing Voyagers with Baby Pendolinos.
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I think this is a big shame, for the reason edwin_m states.


However, if the business case is made or broken on just keeping jobs, it's always pretty flimsy in this day and age.

Let's hope that the alternative they were considering is quick infill of the gaps.
 
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GRALISTAIR

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DJH1971

DJH1971

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I believe this is the last day (if not tomorrow) of the Manchester Victoria blockade.

Anyone got more news of things going on?

And how did today's '350' run go?
 
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175001

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Work pretty much complete. Tracks from 1 2 3 and 4 all lowered for the wires.

Metal has appeared on the station celling under the MEN Arena.

Plenty of structures up between Ordsall and Deal St.
 
LNW-GW Joint

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familyguy99 said:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=110161001&postcount=1253
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Interesting pictures west of Victoria.
They show why the large-footprint mast foundations looked a little odd during construction.
They have now been built up in layers in a pancake structure to get the strength needed.
Better than boring deep holes in the old viaduct brickwork.

Also on the curve from Salford Central to Ordsall Lane, the new stanchions are mostly on the inside (north), with the droppers cantilevered over both tracks.
This leaves the south side clear for the future Ordsall Chord to come in across the river.
Clever stuff.
 
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