No smoking signs at West Ham

[howittpie]

While at West Ham this morning on the C2C platform noticed a poster saying no smoking including electronic cigarettes. This is the first time I have noticed one of these notices, my question are they common?

 

[anti-pacer]

While at West Ham this morning on the C2C platform noticed a poster saying no smoking including electronic cigarettes. This is the first time I have noticed one of these notices, my question are they common?

Can't speak for trains but Arriva Yorkshire have them on their buses.

 

[Butts]

Oh my god :roll:

They'd be banning sweet cigarettes next if you could still get them !!

 

[rdeez]

I don't agree with the banning of electronic cigarettes personally (Disclaimer: I use them). I know the usual arguments, from a distance / in a crowd / on CCTV they may look real etc etc...fair enough they may trigger some false alarms from time to time but really, is it that big an issue? I like to use mine on trains. One of my biggest 'triggers' for lighting up was just after a journey, and I found that if I used the e-cig after leaving the station I still had the craving, whereas if I had a few puffs here and there en-route I didn't on arrival.

I don't believe they cause others any nuisance and certainly no other passengers have ever asked me to stop, moved or looked uncomfortable about it, though I'd certainly move or stop if they preferred.

Hope other stations / TOCs don't follow suit.

 

[bicbasher]

Sainsburys also have a sign banning electronic cigarettes at my local store.

 

[313103]

Actually I wish these electronic things were banned on public transport, I had the misfortune to have someone sit in front of me on a boris bus a few weeks ago and a women was using one like it out of fashion. When the chemicals were released they went straight up into the buses air condition unit and therefore most of us got a whiff of it. I would rather cigerate smoke fumes then the fumes of these sickly things.

 

[rdeez]

Actually I wish these electronic things were banned on public transport, I had the misfortune to have someone sit in front of me on a boris bus a few weeks ago and a women was using one like it out of fashion. When the chemicals were released they went straight up into the buses air condition unit and therefore most of us got a whiff of it. I would rather cigerate smoke fumes then the fumes of these sickly things.

I don't think inconsiderate use by a handful of people is a good justification for an outright ban.

 

[Jonny]

While at West Ham this morning on the C2C platform noticed a poster saying no smoking including electronic cigarettes. This is the first time I have noticed one of these notices, my question are they common?

ScotRail were reportedly the first, IIRC and it was in their announcements on my last trip with them.

 

[Monty]

Our current brief is that we are unable to stop passengers from using them while travelling by train as it isn't technically smoking. However we have been told they looking into amending the railway bylaws to ban it in the near future. From a staff point of view it causes headaches as passengers will complain that someone is 'smoking' and when they hear there is little you can do about it a conflict situation can develop.

 

[Butts]

Our current brief is that we are unable to stop passengers from using them while travelling by train as it isn't technically smoking. However we have been told they looking into amending the railway bylaws to ban it in the near future. From a staff point of view it causes headaches as passengers will complain that someone is 'smoking' and when they hear there is little you can do about it a conflict situation can develop.

Are the complainants retarded ?

Can they not tell the difference between an e-cig and a b&H :roll::roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

ScotRail were reportedly the first, IIRC and it was in their announcements on my last trip with them.

At least you can smoke on their platforms

 

[Monty]

Are the complainants retarded ?

Can they not tell the difference between an e-cig and a b&H :roll::roll:

I imagine not from a distance, but then again most of the complainants are smokers themselves who moan why e-cig users can get away with it and they cannot... So you could say the complainants are mentality handicapped. (retarded is such a strong and offensive word).

 

[Z12XE]

Greater Anglia, c2c and Capital Connect have also banned the use of electronic cigarettes at stations, due to it being "in line with the British Medical Association's recommendation that e-cigarettes should be included in the ban on smoking in public places."

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

At least you can smoke on their platforms

Why are the bus stations in "TfGM-land" treated to regular recorded announcements the smoking is not allowed within the confines of them, yet platforms on railway stations, being another public transport utility, appear not to be covered by that same law. Were you just referring to railway station platforms in Scotland or does this same matter also affect railway station platforms in Wales and England ?

Can someone reiterate the exact legal position on this matter.

 

[Stats]

Why are the bus stations in "TfGM-land" treated to regular recorded announcements the smoking is not allowed within the confines of them, yet platforms on railway stations, being another public transport utility, appear not to be covered by that same law. Were you just referring to railway station platforms in Scotland or does this same matter also affect railway station platforms in Wales and England ?

Can someone reiterate the exact legal position on this matter.

In England and Wales smoking is banned in any public room, building or workplace with a roof or ceiling and where the openings in the walls cover less than half the total area of the wall space. There are a limited number of exceptions.

Smoking on open platforms is not covered by the legislation but by Railway Byelaw 3 which says that "No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed."

 

[dvboy]

e-cigs are banned in Cineworld cinemas, probably as they are more of a distraction for people sitting behind than anything else. I believe they can potentially set smoke alarms off too which is why they shouldn't be used indoors.

 

[Harlesden]

I'm a 30-per day man for the past 40 years. If I can manage to comply with the law by doing without smoking entirely for the 3-hours journey between London King's Cross and Grimsby Town (plus another 20 minutes gazing at the departure board at King's Cross for my platform number), anyone should be able to manage for a few hours

 

[Crossforth]

Network Rail has banned all e-cigs on their property including in offices, mess rooms and vehicles (not sure whether it includes stations) since June

 

[Butts]

I imagine not from a distance, but then again most of the complainants are smokers themselves who moan why e-cig users can get away with it and they cannot... So you could say the complainants are mentality handicapped. (retarded is such a strong and offensive word).

I did not mean handicapped , you said that not me. I meant underdeveloped.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why are the bus stations in "TfGM-land" treated to regular recorded announcements the smoking is not allowed within the confines of them, yet platforms on railway stations, being another public transport utility, appear not to be covered by that same law. Were you just referring to railway station platforms in Scotland or does this same matter also affect railway station platforms in Wales and England ?

Can someone reiterate the exact legal position on this matter.

Paul I was talking about Scotland, with which the exception of Network Rail Stations, any form of puffing is allowed on open platforms.

 

[starrymarkb]

Are the complainants retarded ?

Can they not tell the difference between an e-cig and a b&H :roll::roll:

There are some which are designed to look like a real cig, not the silver ones with blue LED

 

[Butts]

There are some which are designed to look like a real cig, not the silver ones with blue LED

It has been brought to my attention that someone was offended by my use of the word retarded in connection with being unable to differentiate between an e-cigarette and a real one.

I used the word in the context of a synonym for stupid (underdeveloped), which in my view is acceptable use of colloquial language.

May I just reiterate mentally handicapped was not on the agenda, as I suspect most people would have realised.

If anyone else was offended I hope this explanation will assuage your anger at me.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Four problems with e-cigs.

1) People who have given up smoking (or are still struggling) do not like to be REMINDED of cigarettes. I was told by someone who gave up years ago that it really annoys them - I kind of see this point. Perhaps its rubbing the ex-smokers nose in it but it is also reminding them.

2) The bma has not approved them I believe. They contain addictive chemicals that increase the "smokers" dependance on e-cigs and ordinary cigarettes as well. I watch my step son smoking them more and more because he believes it is convenent and safe !.

3) I cannot believe that the chemicals in e-cigs do not get into the air and so get inhaled by others. If I cannot inhale them then I fail to see how the user can inhale them - unless the user has some special filter in their lungs.

4) They are grossly overpriced for what they are. I assume the government is not taxing them as heavily as real cigarettes ?.

If you had asked me BEFORE e-cigs came along I think I would not have objected to them but now I think about it the above is what arises.

I suppose the moral question is do e-cigs help people give up cigarettes or do they make it easier to not address the issue. I saw the banning of smoking in public places as making life nicer for non-smokers - I used to avoid wearing clean clothes to the pub (NO I do not now go naked to the pub). I also saw that it could encourage smokers to give up by making smoking less convenient - not sure we should push people around like that ?.

 

[tony_mac]

Can someone reiterate the exact legal position on this matter.

The position has been given, but there are two TOCs (Scotrail and Merseyrail) who have chosen not to ban smoking on all open platforms.

It does seem to be extremely bizarre that Scotrail have 'banned' electronic cigarettes on platforms, but not actual smoking.

I am not aware of any legal powers behind the 'ban' - they are going to be classed as a 'medicine'.
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/06june/pages/e-cigarettes-and-vaping.aspx

 

[Butts]

The position has been given, but there are two TOCs (Scotrail and Merseyrail) who have chosen not to ban smoking on all open platforms.

It does seem to be extremely bizarre that Scotrail have 'banned' electronic cigarettes on platforms, but not actual smoking.

I am not aware of any legal powers behind the 'ban' - they are going to be classed as a 'medicine'.
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/06june/pages/e-cigarettes-and-vaping.aspx

I think they have banned the e-cigs onboard have they not - as you say it would be insane to ban them on the platform but not real tabs - mind you this is The Railway

Was just musing whether you are allowed to use jos sticks and the like onboard ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I suppose the moral question is do e-cigs help people give up cigarettes or do they make it easier to not address the issue. I saw the banning of smoking in public places as making life nicer for non-smokers - I used to avoid wearing clean clothes to the pub (NO I do not now go naked to the pub). I also saw that it could encourage smokers to give up by making smoking less convenient - not sure we should push people around like that ?.

Has it not gone far enough now , remember you are talking about 10 Million people and 12 Billion pounds a year to the treasury.

Most regressive taxes are frowned upon , but strangely not excise duty on tobacco.

 

[tony_mac]

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/electronic_cigarettes

we have decided not to allow customers or staff to smoke e-cigarettes on our trains or at stations or train depots.

'other lighted item' probably covers jos sticks under the railway byelaws.

 

[Starmill]

Most regressive taxes are frowned upon , but strangely not excise duty on tobacco.

It's because it's a demerit good! Got nothing to do with redistribution!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why are the bus stations in "TfGM-land" treated to regular recorded announcements the smoking is not allowed within the confines of them, yet platforms on railway stations, being another public transport utility, appear not to be covered by that same law. Were you just referring to railway station platforms in Scotland or does this same matter also affect railway station platforms in Wales and England ?

I don't know what Metrolink's policy on e-cigs, but since eating is actually banned I should think this is (or will be). However, actual smoking is definitely banned on open platforms, not that people don't do it/all staff will challenge those who do!

 

[Butts]

It's because it's a demerit good! Got nothing to do with redistribution!--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I don't know what Metrolink's policy on e-cigs, but since eating is actually banned I should think this is (or will be). However, actual smoking is definitely banned on open platforms, not that people don't do it/all staff will challenge those who do!

Apart from those that are smoking themselves no doubt.

So you are alleging that excise duty on tobacco is not a regressive tax in the true meaning of the term ?

 

[badassunicorn]

I use a vaporiser (looks like this https://www.vapinapes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/vapor_how_works.jpg ) and I really struggle to see how someone could mistake it for a cigarette. It looks nothing like one, there is no smell to the vapor and no flame. As someone who used to smoke 20+ a day I can honestly say I would not have been able to stop smoking without it. It provides you with a crutch to lean on whilst giving up, but I don't think it has replaced smoking for me. I can go for days without using it if I forget to charge the battery, and I have no desire to start actual smoking again.
I think so many people are using e-cigs or vaporisers nowadays that it would be hard for joe public to mistake a real cigarette for one.
The way I see it, why should people who are trying to quit a filthy habit that causes so much damage and pollution get shunned? Plus the amount of people I see/smell ACTUALLY smoking on trains/stations/toilets on the railway far outnumbers those who use e-cigs.

 

[Starmill]

Apart from those that are smoking themselves no doubt.

So you are alleging that excise duty on tobacco is not a regressive tax in the true meaning of the term ?

Nope I'm saying it's irrelevant; that's not why they're taxed. The duty is to pay for the negative externalities caused by their consumption; passive smoking, strain on NHS, etc. A higher price ought to lead to lower consumption too.

Perhaps this isn't the place for it, but it's my personal view that on these grounds tobacco and tobacco products are too cheap.

 

[Stigy]

Are the complainants retarded ?

Can they not tell the difference between an e-cig and a b&H :roll::roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


At least you can smoke on their platforms

Even a few feet away the only giveaway as to what's real and what's not is the smell. As a non-smoker, I can smell from some distance what's a real cigarette, but chances are if they all smelled real too, I'd have to get to within a few feet to tell the difference unless they're brightly coloured.

 

[Butts]

Even a few feet away the only giveaway as to what's real and what's not is the smell. As a non-smoker, I can smell from some distance what's a real cigarette, but chances are if they all smelled real too, I'd have to get to within a few feet to tell the difference unless they're brightly coloured.

Blimey are you a bloodhound
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Nope I'm saying it's irrelevant; that's not why they're taxed. The duty is to pay for the negative externalities caused by their consumption; passive smoking, strain on NHS, etc. A higher price ought to lead to lower consumption too.

Perhaps this isn't the place for it, but it's my personal view that on these grounds tobacco and tobacco products are too cheap.

What would you tax instead if everyone stopped smoking ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I use a vaporiser (looks like this https://www.vapinapes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/vapor_how_works.jpg ) and I really struggle to see how someone could mistake it for a cigarette. It looks nothing like one, there is no smell to the vapor and no flame. As someone who used to smoke 20+ a day I can honestly say I would not have been able to stop smoking without it. It provides you with a crutch to lean on whilst giving up, but I don't think it has replaced smoking for me. I can go for days without using it if I forget to charge the battery, and I have no desire to start actual smoking again.
I think so many people are using e-cigs or vaporisers nowadays that it would be hard for joe public to mistake a real cigarette for one.
The way I see it, why should people who are trying to quit a filthy habit that causes so much damage and pollution get shunned? Plus the amount of people I see/smell ACTUALLY smoking on trains/stations/toilets on the railway far outnumbers those who use e-cigs.

Actually smoking on trains - I have not witnessed that for years !!

Believe me those vaporisers are not the "real McCoy" but if they are helping you quit that's fantastic.