FCC 319/2s

[samj]

Evening all,

I travelled on 319216/319219 earlier this morning both in Southern colours working the 11:37 Brighton-Bedford. I was just wondering the 319/2s have any seperate diagrams to the other FCC Class 319s? As I generally see the Southern ones coupled together 75% of the time. Any help would be appreciated, many thanks

 

[asylumxl]

Evening all,

I travelled on 319216/319219 earlier this morning both in Southern colours working the 11:37 Brighton-Bedford. I was just wondering the 319/2s have any seperate diagrams to the other FCC Class 319s? As I generally see the Southern ones coupled together 75% of the time. Any help would be appreciated, many thanks

As a regular commuter on TL, while they do turn up in pairs sometimes, I don't think they have set diagrams. It's not uncommon to see them coupled to your average FCC livered 319 to be honest.

 

[Class377/5]

The 319s are spilt into two groups with the /0 and /3 on 'metro' work and the /2 and /4 doing the Bedford - Brighton routes.

However the diagrams aren't neatly spilt with one pair of diagrams seeing Brighton, Sevenoaks and Sutton all in a single day.

The addition of the joint SE services back in 2009 makes things more complex which is why you get units all over the place. The Southern units do seem to be paired with each other as much as they aren't.

 

[JB25]

Why are they STILL in Southern livery?

 

[Class377/5]

Why are they STILL in Southern livery?

Because its cost 10k per unit and they were supposed to have been withdrawn by now.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Why are they STILL in Southern livery?

More importantly have you SEEN the state of them inside?

I was on an ex SN 319 last weekend and it was probably the filthiest train I've ever been on.

 

[tsr]

More importantly have you SEEN the state of them inside?

I was on an ex SN 319 last weekend and it was probably the filthiest train I've ever been on.

It's funny you should say that. I usually find them better and more comfortable than the "FCC livery" sets, unless you get a particularly rattly old set. That, however, is a comparison, and not a statement that they are acceptable. Very few, if any, 319s really make good impressions, and I have previously detailed the range of disgusting substances I've found. I can do so again if anyone wants to liven up their evening.

Before anyone shouts at me:
1. I have been on a Pacer or two, yes... and I feel some variants aren't much worse, especially if clean
2. I know they can't be replaced immediately, but when new stock comes, they desperately need a major refurb
3. I accept cleaning these things must be awful, and "train presentation" staff do have my sympathies

 

[cjmillsnun]

FCC need to work hard on cleaning their 319s if the ex SN ones are the better. Other commuter TOCs do a lot better.

Just giving them a deep clean would improve matters considerably.

 

[CC 72100]

It's funny you should say that. I usually find them better and more comfortable than the "FCC livery" sets, unless you get a particularly rattly old set. That, however, is a comparison, and not a statement that they are acceptable. Very few, if any, 319s really make good impressions, and I have previously detailed the range of disgusting substances I've found. I can do so again if anyone wants to liven up their evening.

Go on then, go for it!

 

[Class377/5]

FCC need to work hard on cleaning their 319s if the ex SN ones are the better. Other commuter TOCs do a lot better.

Just giving them a deep clean would improve matters considerably.

New equipment for that very purpose has been brought however its a case of slowly working through the units. Normally they can only get cleaned inbetween the peaks which is slowing process down and its Hornsey doing the deep clean.

Will note that most other TOCs have spare units compared to the minimal the TL route does especially when you realise 75% of the fleet is over due a major overhaul (original plan was for only a handful of 319s left now with the original idea of 20-25 additional units given to TL by Dec 2011 in addition to the 377/5 fleet and the TRSP units from Feb 2012).

 

[tsr]

Go on then, go for it!

Caution! Not for the squeamish.

• Blood (dried & heavily splattered)
• Sticky liquids - maybe soft drinks - with ingrained dirt
• The dirty muck you get on a headrest when it hasn't been cleaned for weeks/months/years/decades (probably not centuries)
• Various foodstuffs - mostly old
• Assorted sweets & gum - including a surprising variety of old lollipops
• The usual black dust found on ledges
• Paint-like substances of unknown origin
• Dandruff/hair (kind of understandable, I guess, as you can't really shave all passengers)
• Suspected snot
• Puddles of unidentified liquid (possible snow melt/urine combo) - shortly to be classified as lakes by enthusiastic geographers
• Other substances which were brown and unidentifiable

What I can remember does vary from week to week & month to month. The blood incidents have since spread to a 377 I was on last week, operated by Southern.

 

[JB25]

Before I started working on the railway I often got FCC 319s from Sutton to City. They were absolutely disgusting... So many times I got on one and it stunk of stale alcohol or urine. They clearly have not been cleaned in ages. Surely FCC must realise that it will put customers off.

What are they eventually going to replace the 319s with?

 

[Monty]

I thought the long term plan was that the Class 700 (Desiro City) would be the main traction on the TL route, with the 319s being forced upon long suffering northerners and the 377s going elsewhere.

 

[CC 72100]

Caution! Not for the squeamish....

It sounds fairly typical of older stock that's used on a high frequency service so doesn't get turn around cleans or a heavy clean at the depot often enough.

It's exactly the same here on the suburban services, even on stock that only entered service 10 or so years ago. Deep cleaning is a rather alien concept! Of course, over here we have the added 'issues' of the high number of homeless who frequent the system (and don't hesitate to 'do their business' wherever (not) appropriate!)

At least the 319s aren't going to be around in that condition for too much longer, but until then, why not take a leaf out of this book? :P

[youtube]l3yj7TGtJl0[/youtube]

 

[TEW]

I thought the long term plan was that the Class 700 (Desiro City) would be the main traction on the TL route, with the 319s being forced upon long suffering northerners and the 377s going elsewhere.

Yes, the 700s will be the sole traction through the Thameslink core as they are the only trains that will be fitted with ATO, which is necessary for the high frequency service planned for the core. The 377/2s and /5s will return to Southern, as has always been the intention. The original plans for the 319s were to split them between the North West and Great Western, but it looks like the Great Western will now have new build stock, possibly the 387s currently on order for temporary use on Thameslink.

 

[387star]

It sounds fairly typical of older stock that's used on a high frequency service so doesn't get turn around cleans or a heavy clean at the depot often enough.

It's exactly the same here on the suburban services, even on stock that only entered service 10 or so years ago. Deep cleaning is a rather alien concept! Of course, over here we have the added 'issues' of the high number of homeless who frequent the system (and don't hesitate to 'do their business' wherever (not) appropriate!)

At least the 319s aren't going to be around in that condition for too much longer, but until then, why not take a leaf out of this book? :P

[youtube]l3yj7TGtJl0[/youtube]

Wow cool video comfy looking trains that grime shifter is still used today

 

[D7666]

New equipment for that very purpose has been brought however its a case of slowly working through the units. Normally they can only get cleaned inbetween the peaks which is slowing process down and its Hornsey doing the deep clean.

Will note that most other TOCs have spare units compared to the minimal the TL route does especially when you realise 75% of the fleet is over due a major overhaul (original plan was for only a handful of 319s left now with the original idea of 20-25 additional units given to TL by Dec 2011 in addition to the 377/5 fleet and the TRSP units from Feb 2012).

I am a FCC north side commuter and no defender of FCC on most things.

However, one of the things FCC did do right after getting the franchise was drastically improve train cleaning an presentation.

If anyone thinks Thameslink 319s are dirty now then they never saw a GoVia Thameslink 319. Up to FCC takeover you had layers of grim on the internal panelling you could scrape with your finger nail, and the floor level body side heater grilles were packed with dried vomit. A hot 319 on a winter morning reeking of stale vomit was not something to savour.

The list of dirt posted above by someone else was all much greater then with goVia who seemed to just give up, long before they lost the franchise.

Within 3 months of FCC taking over they cracked that one - they all had internal body side cleans and they cleaned out the grilles. OK that was a while ago, but they are still vastly improved on what GoVia used to present.




--
Nick

 

[LBSCR Times]

It's a problem too with the diagramming of the fleet in that the majority of units don't get much time in depots, maybe only a couple of hours at the most, due to the frequency of the overnight service, which is a mixture of 319/3 and 319/4 units.
The number of times the first trains in the morning arrive at Brighton full of vomit, and need cleaning before going back out as a peak working.......

And no, the 319/2's do not have specific diagrams, they normally drop into any 319/4 diagram.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

80 diagrammed from 84 with some sets doing 800 miles a day is hard work for a 319.

To be fair (and I have long been a traveller on them) , FCC have a massively improved cleaning regime inside now - seats "properly" cleaned and vacuumed and all surfaces in much , much better condition than Govia did (which I am told cost them the franchise - amongst other things) - very little graffiti now - but damned window scratching.

The 319/2 are great off peak - more room , tables in standard etc - but a 319/3 in the peak is the answer as they "eat up passengers".

 

[D7666]

To be fair (and I have long been a traveller on them) , FCC have a massively improved cleaning regime inside now - seats "properly" cleaned and vacuumed and all surfaces in much , much better condition than Govia did (which I am told cost them the franchise - amongst other things) - very little graffiti now - but damned window scratching.

WOW

Somebody else noticed and agrees ... see my posting up thread

It is about the only thing FCC got right on Thameslink ......... but it was a great improvement after GoVia .

Actually I think setting up Bedford Cauldwell properly and removing units from Selhurst, and moving heavy work to Hornsey might have made a difference too, although all of that took longer to cascade through the whole fleet than the simple act of cleaning them did.

--
Nick

 

[cjmillsnun]

Wow cool video comfy looking trains that grime shifter is still used today

So I see from here http://www.superfine.co.uk/product.php?prodid=ettan7ck

Wondergunge appears to still be in use as well.

And yes, Mk1 stock was very comfy.

 

[zn1]

things were so much easier when it was just 2 subclasses -the 319/0 and 319/1 . all this extra subbing of the fleet must be a pain for the planners....its really rather simple this one...the pan removed 319's should be simply renumbered 3199**. and the pool code changed for costings and fleet management....why do the privateers make it so bloody complicated..
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
the interior cleanliness of any unit must be spotless, the South central used to be stickler for traincare, with traincare audits done en route by the carriage cleaning team. A cleans were six weekly, squab covers were changed regularly. The south centrals fleets were brilliantly clean, as were the 319's when selhurst used to do all the maintenance and manage the cleaning. it would appear from comments that cleaning standards have changed, saying that the old school have retired now...
makes me sad to see my old division being slammed down again

 

[heart-of-wessex]

I assume free First Class is available without a fine if travelling on a Sutton loop service anywhere on the route without a penalty fare?

Seen it at least once last month when a Sutton service arrived at St Pancras with the screen's saying 'Standard Class only service' then a 319/3 arrived with a 319/4 on the rear.

 

[W230]

I assume free First Class is available without a fine if travelling on a Sutton loop service anywhere on the route without a penalty fare?

Seen it at least once last month when a Sutton service arrived at St Pancras with the screen's saying 'Standard Class only service' then a 319/3 arrived with a 319/4 on the rear.

I believe so, yes. I think it's the same on the Sevenoaks route although they are really South Eastern services

 

[D7666]

makes me sad to see my old division being slammed down again

I've lived in Luton since before 319s were introduced on the Thameslink route and been travelling with them ever since 319s entered traffic even before the Snow Hill route was opened.

Back then, BR CD -> NSE NSC, whatever you want to call it, all 319s were based at Selhurst no matter what sub-sector they belonged to.

And IMHO that is where the rot started with two things - one was SHST never really cleaned units, nor did any of the berthing locations, the other, a bit later, when the original 319/1s were introduced, was a total could not care less attitude about getting first class on the right trains. Both those things were bequesthed to the TOCs, GoVia did nothing about either. At FCC seem to try.

--
Nick

 

[LBSCR Times]

things were so much easier when it was just 2 subclasses -the 319/0 and 319/1 .

There are only 319/3's which mostly see service on the Loop and Sevenoaks, and 319/4's which run Bedford to Brighton.
There are NO diagrammed 319/3's to Brighton on a weekday.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

the interior cleanliness of any unit must be spotless, the South central used to be stickler for traincare, with traincare audits done en route by the carriage cleaning team. A cleans were six weekly, squab covers were changed regularly. The south centrals fleets were brilliantly clean, as were the 319's when selhurst used to do all the maintenance and manage the cleaning. it would appear from comments that cleaning standards have changed, saying that the old school have retired now...
makes me sad to see my old division being slammed down again

When 319's go into Selhurst, they get cleaned after the Southern units have been done. So, sometimes they go back out with the previous nights rubbish still on board, until a complaint goes in by FCC.