I lived in Newcastle for over ten years, but now I've moved to London.
Moving the Tridents due to vandalism was, in my opinion, an excuse. Single deckers are cheaper to buy and cheaper to run. Stagecoach have their most modern buses on the 39/40 route (naturally after DfT green fund paid towards them), so what changed? The chavs in Walker are still there.
The T-reg ALX300s are usually out in force on the 30/31/36 diagrams, I'd hardly call the 30/31 a peripheral route in the city.
Fleet presentation from Stagecoach is not bad but not anything special. The 51 MANs are knackered and desperately need a proper internal refresh. As for the contravision on the deckers, whoever thought that was a good idea wants shooting. It wasn't you was it? But fleet presentation doesn't sort out the chronic timekeeping problems that Busways have, especially on the 22 where in my experience 30-minute gaps in service are not uncommon.
As for Go Ahead, they're no better, and pointing out what they do just highlights Nexus' point even more. They still have a fair few R-reg Darts and they're knackered too, as well as the Volvos out in County Durham. Their behaviour in acquiring Hexham depot was disgraceful, as has been well documented.
As for Arriva, I think most people agree they're mired in mediocrity. As for the 10, as I argued before, that route is mainly targeted at the people of Prudhoe and West Gateshead, and that's where the money is on the route. Hexham people would take the faster bus or, more likely, take the train or drive. The problems on the 685 are not confined to Arriva, either; Stagecoach Cumberland regularly stuck the Alexander B10Ms on their 685 diagrams, even before the floods, and even now stick their 55 Darts or the E300s on it regularly.
If First reduced their fares due to a "petition" it'll be the first time in history a bus company listened to passengers. As for "agitation in the north east", there is, and plenty of it. Nexus are agitating because they feel they're being ripped off by the three big bus companies in the area, and rightly so. Plenty of money and plenty of old rope. Nexus are slightly more powerful and influential that somebody having a whinge in the Evening Chronicle, hence why the likes of Souter are being so vocal about it.
Finally, you claim we need "shareholder investment" to get new buses. My point was that the NBC and the PTEs and the corporations were perfectly able to buy new buses in the same fashion that the private companies do. In the past they bought new buses for the profitable bits and cascaded kit downwards. The big bus companies do exactly the same thing. Nothing has changed except fares are 20% higher than they need to be to pay for the shareholder dividends.
Oh dear David. You must have forgotten that the Enviros were first brought onto the 62/63, and of course, the 1 has had standard Enviros too. Also, you've forgotten that the GBF only funds the capital difference between standard and hybrid/gas so Stagecoach are still funding a lot of investment in new fleet.
As has been pointed out to you before, the 30/31 used to be double decked routes but the half emptying of the Montagu Estate has severely depressed that service. Guess you'd forgotten that too!
Your opinion on the Tridents? You'll be telling us that in your opinion, that Trident wasn't burnt out but merely singed!!
Your opinion on Stagecoach is tainted by your hatred of Souter, then you're never going to accept that. However, I know people at Walkergate/Wheatsheaf and it was the case that vandalism was the reason. That said, they clearly couldn't carry on not having deckers and advances in digital recording etc mean they're happier to have new deckers on those routes.
The Tyne Valley routes. Well if you're confining your opinion to those people who only wish to travel from Hexham/Corbridge to Newcastle, then on a narrow point, you'd be right. However, total market and net worth? Then the 10 is much more lucrative which is ONE of the reasons why Go Ahead wanted it but not the 685. Also, Peter Huntley didn't want a shared route with CMS. So despite the fact that one service is traditionally hourly with singles, and the other is half hourly with DDs, you reckon the former is the more lucrative and desirable. Oooh, me ribs
I don't work for Stagecoach and I wouldn't use contravision if I did but what that has to do with the performance and value of bus services in the Nexus area. I don't like the collusion that eventually happened with Go Ahead/Arriva but you have to remember that the climbdown eventually happened because Go Ahead DID actually begin competing with Arriva. You know, Newcastle to Cramlington to Blyth, and to Ashington? Capitalising on a complacent Arriva so that Go Ahead were a cuckoo that Arriva eventually had to pay to evict - the cost being Hexham depot (and a cash adjustment).
I also don't work for Go Ahead or Arriva. I do know that Go Ahead don't have any R reg Darts.... rather than you forgetting something, you've clearly remembered something from a time ago!
First in Bristol did react to the petition; did you not know that? As regards Nexus' motives, they may be entirely laudable or perhaps it is part of a longstanding agenda to regain the type of control they lost in 1986. I agree that, in particular, Arriva have helped them by providing some ammunition in terms of service delivery, but not Stagecoach and Go Ahead. As for the 22, don't use it and so can't comment on its timekeeping or otherwise; however, my experience of operators in T&W is generally positive.
Now, onto the NBC. You brought this up originally but clearly don't get it, so let's spell it out in simple terms that you get.
The NBC during the 1970s had the benefit of the new bus grant and had massive losses underwritten, especially in the southern territories but also places like Lincolnshire. Was this what you meant by you not recalling NBC firms struggling for new vehicles?
In 1979, that changed and new vehicles were suddenly not longer massively subsidised (by up to 50%) and the massive operating losses were also to be halted. Hence, despite what you said, the NBC was struggling for new buses especially in the south, and that ignores the massive fleet reductions from MAP projects in the early 1980s or the problems would've been worse.
Now, of course, we have the practice of being able to cascade vehicles from strong territories to less lucrative areas. However, what happens if T&W is then followed by GM, West Yorks, etc. Suddenly, you don't have the bedrock of those operations. T&W may be just one area, and in isolation, that isn't as much of an issue but if one goes, where next. That is what the whole issue is with the operators. Arriva might not stand to lose much but what if the next area to do that is Merseyside? THAT is why bus operators are so up in arms about it, not because of the Chronicle, Nexus or anything else - they see it as the thin end of the wedge.
And the need for shareholders? Why do YOU think businesses, whether they be bus operators or brewers, need shareholders? In this case, is it for the capital spend on 500 new vehicles a year that is then recouped over the next 15 years? And get it into your head that in the 1970's/1980's, the whole bus industry was massively subsidised so if you think that the situation then was self funding, then wake up! In 1970, the NBC made an operating loss of £8m - in today's money, that's £104m. So yeah, a lot has changed since then.
I'm glad you think that Nexus has got it's sums right on this, and can have more buses, newer buses, lower fares and do all that by attempting to get bus companies to both source vehicles AND accept 5%. After all, you've got most of the other facts wrong in this thread
