Why are my tickets rejected at the barriers?

[Saint Sophie]

I travel from Carmarthen to Harlow Town every couple of months when I visit home from university. I take the train from Carmarthen to Swansea, then the First Great Western to London Paddington, and then the tube to Liverpool Street and finally, Liverpool Street to Harlow Town - and then the same route for a return journey.

I have noticed that I would have journeys where my tickets keep getting rejected at the London barriers. I have to show the barrier staff member my ticket in order to get through. This happens at every single barrier I go through. This is a major annoyance and inconvenience, not only for myself but for others behind me. They are perfectly valid tickets and sometimes they work - other times they don't and I'm told to 'seek assistance'.

My Carmarthen-Harlow ticket is the ticket I use through the barriers (I get issued a Carmarthen-Harlow ticket, Liverpool Street-Harlow ticket and Swansea-Paddington ticket). Sometimes it works fine. Other times it simply does not let me through. I've tried all three tickets at points and none of them work. I really don't know why this is and it's really bothersome when you have queues of people impatiently sighing behind you as your ticket spits back out at you!

Does anyone have an idea why this happens sometimes, and other times it's fine?

 

[furlong]

When a ticket barrier rejects a ticket if the barrier is not the sort with space to display a message then instead it displays a code number (2 or 3 digits).

This can be decoded to give you a broad reason why the ticket was rejected.

Next time this happens make a note of the code number and if you tell us this and the details of the ticket and which station it was (so we'll know which type of barrier codes were used) someone on here should be able to give you a good indication why it didn't open.

On older London Underground barriers the code number is displayed sideways where you walk through.

 

[jnjkerbin]

Also bear in mind that the magnetic strip on the back of the ticket which the barrier sees can be wiped if the tickets are stored next to an electronic device eg. a phone.

 

[razor89]

As I understand it, barriers will not accept through tickets, at least that is the case on the barriers in my area.

In Liverpool, for example, barriers set to EXIT the station will only accept tickets with destination LIVERPOOL STNS, and barriers set to ENTRY will only accept tickets with origin LIVERPOOL STNS (Both will also accept local ranger/ PTE tickets). Any other tickets are rejected.

However this is when the barriers are set to full checking mode. They can also be set to just check the date on the tickets, or even to accept any readable ticket.

 

[dzug2]

You are not (some of the time) trying to use your seat reservation tickets to work the barriers are you?

 

[SickyNicky]

You are not (some of the time) trying to use your seat reservation tickets to work the barriers are you?

To be fair, this happens frequently at intermediate stations, even reasonable ones. Some barriers are programmed better than others (or you could say that some are stricter).

On most journeys that I make I either use a ticket starting or ending short, one that has lenient off-peak restrictions or I break my journey en route. I get refused by the barriers at least half the time. It is frustrating having to show the ticket to the staff, although I rarely, if ever, have trouble in being allowed through.

The most interesting tickets can be rovers, which often don't allow you through any barriers (e.g. Heart of Wales Circular Day Ranger - not allowed at Hereford, Shrewsbury, Newport, Cardiff or Swansea!)

 

[Soyyo]

The most interesting tickets can be rovers, which often don't allow you through any barriers (e.g. Heart of Wales Circular Day Rover - not allowed at Hereford, Shrewsbury, Newport, Cardiff or Swansea!)

My ALR would not let me through any automated barriers last year, to the point at least where I stopped trying after a few days. Surely these could easily be set to be let you through everywhere...

 

[SickyNicky]

My ALR would not let me through any automated barriers last year, to the point at least where I stopped trying after a few days. Surely these could easily be set to be let you through everywhere...

Yes, and don't you love the "ticket not valid at this location" messages you get on East Midlands and East Coast barriers.

 

[Eng274]

Often when I'm using the Glasgow central barriers against the flow of 200 commuters from the Cathcart circle or a busy Ayrshire service, it is astounding how many tickets do not work and passengers have to use the gateline staff to pass. Many just default to the gateline staff anyway to avoid the few seconds delay, which makes the barriers redundant somewhat.

Through tickets not being accepted e.g. Blantyre to Edinburgh via glasgow queen street, is a bit of a nuisance as well. Not that much of a nuisance in the grand scheme of things but if one uses such tickets every day it could grate a little.

 

[razor89]

IMO the gating systems in use are not good enough, I get the impression they have been 'done on the cheap'... Surely it can't be so difficult to program a version of the routeing guide into the system, to allow through tickets? And surely the people responsible (DfT/ Cubic/ TOCs) should have realised that current ticket stock is not robust enough? (Too easily damaged/ mag strip wiped)?

 

[bb21]

Surely it can't be so difficult to program a version of the routeing guide into the system

You will be surprised.

 

[CNash]

IMO the gating systems in use are not good enough, I get the impression they have been 'done on the cheap'... Surely it can't be so difficult to program a version of the routeing guide into the system, to allow through tickets? And surely the people responsible (DfT/ Cubic/ TOCs) should have realised that current ticket stock is not robust enough? (Too easily damaged/ mag strip wiped)?

One of the problems with changing ticket stock is that it would require updating the software on (or possibly replacing) every barrier in the country at a monumental cost.

 

[vjm1975]

As I understand it, barriers will not accept through tickets, at least that is the case on the barriers in my area.

In Liverpool, for example, barriers set to EXIT the station will only accept tickets with destination LIVERPOOL STNS, and barriers set to ENTRY will only accept tickets with origin LIVERPOOL STNS (Both will also accept local ranger/ PTE tickets). Any other tickets are rejected.

However this is when the barriers are set to full checking mode. They can also be set to just check the date on the tickets, or even to accept any readable ticket.

I would assume Lime Street lower level barriers would accept through tickets, given you need to pass through them to get to the main line station. Have never had an issue with through tickets being rejected at these barriers, but not tried the other Liverpool underground stations.

 

[telstarbox]

I believe some barriers automatically reject all child or Railcard tickets so that passengers have to use the manual gate - it stops adults using child tickets and similar.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Moorfields rejected my Liverpool Stations-Milton Keynes return ticket (which is valid via Chester)

 

[maniacmartin]

IMO the gating systems in use are not good enough, I get the impression they have been 'done on the cheap'... Surely it can't be so difficult to program a version of the routeing guide into the system, to allow through tickets? And surely the people responsible (DfT/ Cubic/ TOCs) should have realised that current ticket stock is not robust enough? (Too easily damaged/ mag strip wiped)?

The Routeing Guide is very complex, and subject to interpretation. Magnetic ticket stripes are a rather old technology and have a very limited amount of space for data on the stripe. The DfT do have a proposed solution - to move people to smartcards such as ITSO and allow more restriction on Break of Journey, such as the complete withdrawal of BoJ on Oyster.

 

[CNash]

The Routeing Guide is very complex, and subject to interpretation. Magnetic ticket stripes are a rather old technology and have a very limited amount of space for data on the stripe. The DfT do have a proposed solution - to move people to smartcards such as ITSO and allow more restriction on Break of Journey, such as the complete withdrawal of BoJ on Oyster.

When you say "withdrawal of BoJ on Oyster", do you mean removing OSIs, or maximum journey time rules, or something else? I thought break of journey was only relevant on point-to-point tickets.

 

[Eagle]

I believe some barriers automatically reject all child or Railcard tickets so that passengers have to use the manual gate - it stops adults using child tickets and similar.

Yes, this is done a lot, particularly at London terminals.

As the OP stated she was travelling to and from university, I'm going to take an educated guess that she has a 16-25 railcard.

 

[maniacmartin]

I thought break of journey was only relevant on point-to-point tickets.

Exactly my point!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I believe some barriers automatically reject all child or Railcard tickets so that passengers have to use the manual gate - it stops adults using child tickets and similar.

Waterloo will reject Epsom to Birmingham route High Wycombe with Maltese Cross, or indeed any other route High Wycombe ticket...

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Child travelcards I buy online are usually rejected at most barriers, similarly with Avantix issued ones. Ones brought from a London Underground office work fine, as do one on orange stock purchased from somewhere in London.

 

[Haywain]

IMO the gating systems in use are not good enough, I get the impression they have been 'done on the cheap'... Surely it can't be so difficult to program a version of the routeing guide into the system, to allow through tickets? And surely the people responsible (DfT/ Cubic/ TOCs) should have realised that current ticket stock is not robust enough? (Too easily damaged/ mag strip wiped)?

The gates and tickets stock are 1980s technology, and certainly aren't cheap. The limitations of the technology are a significant part of the problem, with only a limited amount of information stored on the magnetic strip, and limitations as to how that can be interpreted by the software on the gates (which is different according to manufacturer).

To change to something that is suited to the 21st Century will be very expensive, and take several years to implement and will require involvement of all the TOCs, TIS and gate suppliers, Network Rail, Transport for London and so on. And someone has to pay for this. Because the TOCs all have differing financial priorities because of variations in franchise length and remaining franchise time they will not be able to agree to funding such a project, which means it will be driven by DfT who are effectively outsiders and won't necessarily come up with the best solution for the rail industry but the one that seems to be most cost effective.

Under BR, as a single entity, I believe that the ticketing technology would have changed 10 years ago when APTIS became outdated, and we would probably be talking about second generation smartcards now. And that is not because nationalised industry is better than private but because decisions can be made by one company more easily than agreement can be reached by 30 or more.

 

[trainophile]

Liverpool South Parkway always rejects a through ticket at the second set of barriers, apparently on the grounds that they are programmed to only allow one usage at this station. Some of the barrier staff seem unaware of this, and insist on a fruitless attempt to use the barrier to P5 & P6 even though I tell them it won't work as I have just come through the other set. I swan up to them now saying "I know this won't work but I'll go through the motions".

When I use this route nowadays (which I'm starting to avoid for various reasons... yes you LM ) I tend to approach the gate at the first barriers and hope the staff will open it for me as I'm pulling a suitcase - they usually do. Doing this ensures that my ticket will work at the second set (which is where I generally encounter the disbeliever) so it cuts out the faff, especially as I don't usually have long to catch my Southport connection.

 

[High Dyke]

Would an easier solution be to reduce / remove the automatic barriers...and increase the presence of the Mk1 eyeball gateline staff? Oh perhaps not though as any costs for staffing would detract from the pockets of TOC shareholders...

As i clearly show my lack of understanding on how the barriers work...and given the information posted here about magnetic strips only holding limited amounts of data. In the case of the OP couldn't some of the 'limited info' include validity for a cross-London journey?

 

[185143]

The most interesting tickets can be rovers, which often don't allow you through any barriers (e.g. Heart of Wales Circular Day Ranger - not allowed at Hereford, Shrewsbury, Newport, Cardiff or Swansea!)

Manchester Oxford Road's Barriers wouldn't accept my GM Rail Ranger once. I just assumed this was because I purchased it there, on arrival. Another time, it rejected one I had bought elsewhere, when I was told by staff that the their barriers don't take ANY rangers!

 

[sheff1]

Liverpool South Parkway always rejects a through ticket at the second set of barriers, apparently on the grounds that they are programmed to only allow one usage at this station.

Indeed. This is most ridculous programming I have encountered anywhere. There is a pretty significant flow of people changing between the two parts of the station and yet, as you say, some barrier staff still insist on the farcical charade of inserting a ticket which always rejects. The best one though was when I approached the mainline platforms and, for reasons unknown, all the barriers were set to exit (i.e. a line of red crosses facing me) - even when I pointed this out, the attendant still insisted I insert the ticket

The station could have been laid out with just the one barrier line - there is plenty of room. Does anyone know why it was not ?

 

[PermitToTravel]

In the case of the OP couldn't some of the 'limited info' include validity for a cross-London journey?

Tickets including a cross-London transfer and bearing a Maltese cross are normally encoded like that. This should include all tickets from Carmarthen to Harlow Town. This is how London Underground barriers know whether or not to pass a National Rail ticket

 

[Chapeltom]

Indeed. This is most ridculous programming I have encountered anywhere. There is a pretty significant flow of people changing between the two parts of the station and yet, as you say, some barrier staff still insist on the farcical charade of inserting a ticket which always rejects. The best one though was when I approached the mainline platforms and, for reasons unknown, all the barriers were set to exit (i.e. a line of red crosses facing me) - even when I pointed this out, the attendant still insisted I insert the ticket

The station could have been laid out with just the one barrier line - there is plenty of room. Does anyone know why it was not ?

You'd have to shift the ticket office at LPY if you wanted to just one gateline for all platforms, it would be a lot of hassle in my opinion. I use it 3/4 times a week, so its something I've always thought about myself.

 

[SoonToBeMrsS]

Having dealt with a gateline route programmer person this morning, I can confirm it IS that blooming hard. Time, date, route, railcard and anomalies are scanned for EVERY ticket - it's a massive undertaking.

Kinda glad I'm not him, really!

 

[David Goddard]

My ALR would not let me through any automated barriers last year, to the point at least where I stopped trying after a few days. Surely these could easily be set to be let you through everywhere...

You were brave! We wouldn't dare put our £1040 ALRs through ticket gates last summer, for fear of malfunction