Trains leaving early and cancelling stops

[infobleep]

Not a good morning for south west trains. To be fair to them staff are human and we all make mistakes.

First thing to happen was the 7.04 to be delayed by 10 minutes. Now instead of cancelling early stops also served by a train that should run 10 mins later and would have done if this train hadn't departed late, they cancelled stops such as Clapham Junction. A big junction with such few trains from Guildford

This would have meant people going there being delayed by 30 mins, unless under the circumstances you'd be allowed to travel via Waterloo. I suspect not.

Roll on your the next train to stop there. The 7.33. I arrived at 7.32 to see it had already left the platform. It left up to a minute and a half early! Not good if you went off to kill time after the 7.03 service to there was cancelled.

I had to reach Surbiton so ended up going via Woking. Of course the next set of trains were late.

However that was nothing compared to the bloke actually trying to get to Clapham Junction. His next train was the the very slow 7.58 via Epsom. I wasn't quick enough to point out the 8.31 only arrives 3 mins later but leaves Guildford almost an hour later than the current time. He'd have been even less imprrssed.

There was customer services card given out when the bloke asked for a complaints form but no suggestion from the member of staff if he might like to go via Waterloo, which usually is more expensive according to National Rail Enquiries but prices are listed. Perhaps that's not allowed when staff make honest mistakes, as I'm sure the early departure was.

I've had it happen at Harrow a couple of times and in the 90s a Glasgow train left Haywards Heath early. One woman that day was actually going to Glasgow!

I now know what happens in the National Rail Enquiries app when a train leaves early. It gets given the wording no report. I guess the app isn't designed to cater for early departures.

Upon arrival 3 minutes late into Surbiton, excluding the earlier delay, the departure board was announcing the train after it, which was a stopping service. Cue tannoy announcements and even the train guard making an announcement as this was a non stop service. It caused a slight further delay to that service.

Perhaps someone cleared the departure screen early by mistake. More likely a technical fault.

Unrelated to all of this but still keeping staff busy, as a woman attempted to board the late running 7.45 to Waterloo from Guildford, she got pushed from behind and her shoe ended up beside the track. They couldn't remove it until the train had left.





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[BestWestern]

Hmm, unfortunate! Particularly at that time of the day. Obviously impossible to say of course without knowing details, but there is a small chance the train could have been instructed to leave early for some reason, already full to capacity or something going on on the platform for example - but as you say, most likely the Guard being keen! It's easily done, if you've spent some of the journey running late it can catch you out if you suddenly end up early!

 

[reb0118]

Not a good morning for south west trains. To be fair to them staff are human and we all make mistakes......


............It left up to a minute and a half early!.................


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It could be a dodgy watch. My watch is radio controlled but yesterday it was one month, one day, and, crucially, one minute fast!

It is in the rule book that a passenger train must not leave early but mistakes do happen it is therefore common sense for passengers to be on the platform a few minutes before the advertised departure time.

Another point is that the station clock may be out. A question for the forum: if the station clock is a wee bit slow should the train depart right time or wait on the clock to catch up?

 

[bezzer]

It could be a dodgy watch. My watch is radio controlled but yesterday it was one month, one day, and, crucially, one minute fast!

It is in the rule book that a passenger train must not leave early but mistakes do happen it is therefore common sense for passengers to be on the platform a few minutes before the advertised departure time.

Another point is that the station clock may be out. A question for the forum: if the station clock is a wee bit slow should the train depart right time or wait on the clock to catch up?

Very often the clocks don't work or tell different times! At Tottenham Hale, the large Radio Controlled clock is always ahead of the clock on the display board on the platform, which is invariably different to the driver's watch!! So I always wait until every clock is saying the right time. If anyone queries it well then they can tell me which clock to follow!!

The company have not given me a radio controlled watch. I have my own cheap watch which always falls behind time and I have to adjust every other day. And on many stations where you stop you cannot see the station clock.

So if I ever did leave early then my argument would be that the onus is on the company to provide me with a watch that tells the correct 'train time' otherwise I cannot be blamed for leaving a few seconds early.

But as you rightly say, passengers need to understand that the advertised time is the departure time and that station duties will begin about 15 seconds before the advertised time to depart.

It never ceases to amaze me what abuse you get when you depart a minute late, someone runs up the stairs, the doors have closed and you are pulled away, they complain that you did not wait for them. So what I open the doors, shut them again and then someone else appears. Now I am 3 minutes late.

When there is a train every 6 minutes, many fast, as on the West Anglia route I the rush hour, people have no idea that being 1 minute late soon results in trains being 10/15 minutes late. All because they couldn't be arsed to get to the station on time.

Besides, there is a train every 15 minutes, not as if they need to wait another hour!!!

 

[ushawk]

The Clapham issue pops up on here every few months. Due to the tight pathing, some late running services will skip Clapham due to the long dwell time there which will in turn not hold anything up behind.

Yes, it delays other people on the late service - but it reduces delays on following services.

 

[CNash]

It's a bit of a conundrum. By missing stops on a late running service, you're potentially making some of your passengers - already frustrated and running late - even later. I've certainly been in that situation - trains diverted to Cannon Street at the last minute, or not stopping at Clapham Junction. But it's done to try to even out the service and minimise the disruption to the rest of the services.

You could make the argument that the passengers affected are already late, so a little more lateness can't hurt... but then I (and many other people) are paid strictly by the hour, so any further lateness in getting to work will cause me to lose money, and Delay Repay only goes so far.

In short, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

[CallySleeper]

Interesting that 2G14 (the 0703 ex) was actually just about on time again by the time you got to Surbiton & New Malden, maybe a couple of minutes down, but arrived into Waterloo over five minutes early! :/

Also, 2G16 (the 0733) was not only clearly early leaving Guildford but London Road (Guildford) also. For once this isn't a case of a two/three minute differential between the WTT and public timetable.

 

[infobleep]

It would appear they later on decided to cancel every atop after Effingham Junction. That wasn't the departure board state when they left. Then it was everything after Surbiton. Given it arrived 5 mins early, surely a case for at least keeping Clapham Junction as a stop. Perhaps Surbiton too based on other train stopping patterns.

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[fowler9]

I have a lot of sympathy for the railways and other public transport (Buses and planes for example) when it comes to this. People don't seem to appreciate or understand the knock on effects of disruption. That isn't to say I don't understand people being more than a little peed off at the disruption.

 

[W230]

It could be a dodgy watch. My watch is radio controlled but yesterday it was one month, one day, and, crucially, one minute fast!

We all get radio controlled watches. For some reason, a colleague's ended up 7 minutes fast. Nobody knows why but he only ended up noticing because he couldn't work out how he'd lost so much time!

I always go by company watch. If it says time to go, then I depart!

Very often the clocks don't work or tell different times! At Tottenham Hale, the large Radio Controlled clock is always ahead of the clock on the display board on the platform, which is invariably different to the driver's watch!!

It's the same on the tube at Tottenham Hale. The old analogue clock at the far end of the SB platform appears to show the correct time, with the modern digital TIS always being four minutes slow. Well, until it stopped working completely last week!

 

[pt_mad]

It could be a dodgy watch. My watch is radio controlled but yesterday it was one month, one day, and, crucially, one minute fast!

It is in the rule book that a passenger train must not leave early but mistakes do happen it is therefore common sense for passengers to be on the platform a few minutes before the advertised departure time.

Another point is that the station clock may be out. A question for the forum: if the station clock is a wee bit slow should the train depart right time or wait on the clock to catch up?

When looking at TRUST there are often many instances when trains report as leaving a minute early.

Always wondered the reason for this. Some of the stations are origin stations and it also seems to happen at larger interchange stations. Is it that doors are closed 30/40 seconds before dept. time and the doors have closed very fast as the guard was on the ball, and then the first signal is just at the end of the platform? Or do they sometimes intentionally get them out slightly earlier to free up platforms?

 

[W230]

When looking at TRUST there are often many instances when trains report as leaving a minute early.

Always wondered the reason for this. Some of the stations are origin stations and it also seems to happen at larger interchange stations. Is it that doors are closed 30/40 seconds before dept. time and the doors have closed very fast as the guard was on the ball, and then the first signal is just at the end of the platform? Or do they sometimes intentionally get them out slightly earlier to free up platforms?

Not sure how TRUST works with timings but a lot of our departure times show XX:XX½. I will leave at the XX:XX time if ready. Not sure whether that would show a minute early or not though?

 

[pt_mad]

As far as I know TRUST times report from the first signal the train passes after leaving the platform.

I think only full minutes are reported. i.e. 1323 1324 1325 half minutes or seconds are not recognised.


Many every day seem to be booked in at a station as say arr. 1324 dep.1325 and actual dep. 1324 1 Early.

 

[Bevan Price]

We all get radio controlled watches. For some reason, a colleague's ended up 7 minutes fast. Nobody knows why but he only ended up noticing because he couldn't work out how he'd lost so much time!

!

I have a radio controlled clock, but it starts to go slow when the battery is getting flat. Also, if not close to a window, it seems to lose the radio signal and give random errors. Once, it was consistently 4 hours out of sync for some reason. Technology is not always perfect.

For any trains fitted with GPS, the clock on the GPS equipment should normally be more reliable than any watch or station clock, as it gets a time signal from all the satellites in range.

 

[455driver]

If the OP was there for the 0703 departure how come you only got to the 0733 one minute before it departed, that is just careless!
Okay the train left upto 90 seconds early when it shouldnt have but leaving it to the last couple of minutes to get on isnt good is it!

As for everyone dissecting the reporting times, for one they are not that accurate (check the times for Blackwater BAW where trains leave before they arrive) plus the fact that if a train is due to leave at 13:45:00, the doors will start to be closed at 13:44:20, if the doors close quite quickly the train will get underway at 13:44:50, now if the reporting point is right at the end of the platform it might be passed at 13:44:58 so it will show as departing 1 minute early whereas it actually left 10 seconds early.

Lets not do this one again, its boring.

 

[High Dyke]

As far as I know TRUST times report from the first signal the train passes after leaving the platform.

I think only full minutes are reported. i.e. 1323 1324 1325 half minutes or seconds are not recognised.

Many every day seem to be booked in at a station as say arr. 1324 dep.1325 and actual dep. 1324 1 Early.

In the past signallers used to round the times down, before the half minute or round up after the half minute. Nowadays all times are rounded down. Also TRUST usually works on WTT time so if a train departs with a CIS showing a GBTT time it may be recorded as an early departure in TRUST.

Another one that can't really be done is same arrival and departure times - mainly at unstaffed country stations. As timings were originally based on older stock and not for stock with powered doors, which mean a delay in opening them there is a discrepancy when inputting times. Had that this earlier. Train booked Arr: 19:44, Dep: 19:44. Actual times were Arr: 19:44 Dep: 19:45

 

[yorkie]

If the OP was there for the 0703 departure how come you only got to the 0733 one minute before it departed...

I was wondering that, but it's not possible to deduce from reading the post if the OP was actually present when the 0703 departed.

The 0719 arrived at the OPs destination, Surbiton, at 0751, so no need to wait for the 0733 which arrived 0812. I therefore assume this was merely an observation the OP made when viewing realtime train data.

However a complaint about the early departure of the 0733 is a valid complaint.

I've had it happen at Harrow a couple of times and in the 90s a Glasgow train left Haywards Heath early. One woman that day was actually going to Glasgow!

The passenger would have almost certainly arrived early at Glasgow then, as clearly they would have been allowed to travel via London, which is a much quicker route.

 

[pt_mad]

now if the reporting point is right at the end of the platform it might be passed at 13:44:58 so it will show as departing 1 minute early whereas it actually left 10 seconds early.

And you get people coming up to saying 'that train left early' as its actually pulling away 10 seconds before time because the doors were closed so efficiently! Often happens if the guard is ready with the button and some doors have already timed out.

 

[455driver]

As for everyone dissecting the reporting times, for one they are not that accurate (check the times for Blackwater BAW where trains leave before they arrive)

They dont on RT which just has a N/R for the departure but they do on C###B, normally leave 3 minutes before they arrive, 1O88 (1934 Reading to Gatwick) arrived 2006 and left at 2003.