Failed FCC train at City Thameslink 11/11

[Minstral25]

On a side note Blackfriars station was design to accommodate passengers until the 2070's on loadings during design phase. May reach that soon but all major stations do, look at Euston and London Bridge for examples of this.

Blackfriars should also have been built as 4 through platform station.

Create operational flexibility - helps when things go wrong which they invariably do every now and then

 

[Tetchytyke]

Blackfriars is a four platform station, with two south-facing bays that can be used to turn trains round in.

 

[jon0844]

The peaks are already pretty varied, with trains to Brighton, trains both ways round the Sutton loop and the SouthEastern services to Sevenoaks and Rochester.

It's like this already at many of the through stations in London, e.g. Waterloo East, so I don't see that it would be too much of an issue.

I hope that will be the case.

I'm just worried about how busy FCC services are today at King's Cross and all of those people potentially waiting on one platform, rather than more spread out.

 

[Class377/5]

Blackfriars should also have been built as 4 platform station.

Create operational flexibility - helps when things go wrong which they invariably do every now and then

Of course but the more complex you make things the more things fail and affect what is now plain line.

I'm not convinced from an operational pov that four platforms would be that helpful. Especially with platform confusion meaning you actually require more concourse space than the more simpler arrangement we now have.

Blackfriars is a four platform station, with two south-facing bays that can be used to turn trains round in.

Unless your coming to/from London Bridge then its a two platform station of course.

I hope that will be the case.

I'm just worried about how busy FCC services are today at King's Cross and all of those people potentially waiting on one platform, rather than more spread out.

But how many of those people actually start/end their trips at Kings Cross and how many use the Underground/rail to continue moving? Its these that's will likely board elsewhere. For example those nearer the city may use a direct train to Farrington/City/Blackfriars instead lowering the passenger count on both the Tube and Kings Cross platforms but not increasing it at St Pancras.

 

[jon0844]

But how many of those people actually start/end their trips at Kings Cross and how many use the Underground/rail to continue moving? Its these that's will likely board elsewhere. For example those nearer the city may use a direct train to Farrington/City/Blackfriars instead lowering the passenger count on both the Tube and Kings Cross platforms but not increasing it at St Pancras.

I hope this turns out to be the case, and hopefully it will be (or at least people will work out other places to join the train if they come to realise that St Pancras is a mess).

I may well opt to stay on to Finsbury Park if using the Victoria line, although obviously the issue then is that the train will be very busy by then. It's going to be a shame to no longer have empty trains you can board ahead of time.

 

[Class377/5]

I hope this turns out to be the case, and hopefully it will be (or at least people will work out other places to join the train if they come to realise that St Pancras is a mess).

I may well opt to stay on to Finsbury Park if using the Victoria line, although obviously the issue then is that the train will be very busy by then. It's going to be a shame to no longer have empty trains you can board ahead of time.

No-one who gets a peak service from Kings Cross won't have that option post 2018 .

The additional peaks to Welwyn along with Cambridge locals, Kings Lynn and some Peterborough services will all still start from Kings Cross. Its all down to what personally suits but the true affect on GN to Thameslink service services isn't fully known at this point and won't be until Dec 2018 or longer.

 

[Bald Rick]

But how many of those people actually start/end their trips at Kings Cross and how many use the Underground/rail to continue moving? Its these that's will likely board elsewhere. For example those nearer the city may use a direct train to Farrington/City/Blackfriars instead lowering the passenger count on both the Tube and Kings Cross platforms but not increasing it at St Pancras.

Exactly. Well over 100 people get on every southbound peak train at ST P LL in the morning, or at least the ones I get. Many of these come from KX - indeed I know 3 people who do this in just my office. And when Crossrail opens, the opportunities become even more 'exciting'. I would be surprised if the proportion boarding northbound ECML trains at St P will be more than 30% of the full train, ie roughly same as for MML now.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

The bit I find entertaining is that the new Belle Isle junction is being built as a flat crossing, so that the NB ex-KX trains will have to interact with the SB FCC's diving into the 'cross site link', ie. Canal Jnc. Tunnel over to STP. Bearing in mind that some ICs use this section to access KX platforms, especially in the up direction, so significant 'operational interaction' is guaranteed! However did all this get approved...?

 

[JackTheLad]

I boarded a Sutton bound train at Mill Hill Broadway on my way home to St Mary Cray when all this chaos happened. We pulled in to Kentish Town where the train was held for 30mins then subsequently got taken out of service and reversed onto the up slow.

Luckily for me the next train to roll in at Kentish Town albeit for an unscheduled stop was the Rochester train which after Elephant, only calls at Herne Hill, Bromley South and St Mary Cray which in my mind would get me home a lot quicker than an all stations Sevenoaks via the Catford Loop... Boy was I wrong, we were stuck at Kentish Town for 90 minutes.

Felt sorry for the Passengers to stations to Rochester though, we finally got to Bromley South and the driver announced that he has been told to terminate the service at Swanley. To which many disgruntled onward passengers had to suddenly alight in the rain. Good old FCC keeping everyone happy on their commute home

 

[Class377/5]

Expect after Blackfriars FCC don't runs trains towards Bromley but Southeastern take control.

 

[JackTheLad]

Expect after Blackfriars FCC don't runs trains towards Bromley but Southeastern take control.

But in terms of platform/On board announcements, live departure boards, and customer information screens FCC run all the southbound services to Sevenoaks/Rochester/Ashford and SE run all the northbound from Sevenoaks/Rochester/Ashford so as far as the customers were concerned, the train I was on was an FCC service regardless of whether operationally SE take over south of Blackfriars.

 

[jon0844]

I've seen a few Tweets from people moaning about the awful service from @FirstCC in SET land, and telling them to bugger off as they're not wanted.

I guess Joe Public don't quite understand the way things work, and it's rather funny to see people being so angry about what is still just a train.

 

[Jonny]

Is there not enough length of train, that some part of the train will always be at the top and bottom of the hill in order to ease the power requirements as the centre of gravity rises gradually, or is it just too much for 8 cars with one unit's worth (give or take) out of action?

 

[12CSVT]

Is there not enough length of train, that some part of the train will always be at the top and bottom of the hill in order to ease the power requirements as the centre of gravity rises gradually, or is it just too much for 8 cars with one unit's worth (give or take) out of action?

The length of the gradient is far longer than an 8 coach train, more like 13 or 14 coach lengths

 

[Class377/5]

But in terms of platform/On board announcements, live departure boards, and customer information screens FCC run all the southbound services to Sevenoaks/Rochester/Ashford and SE run all the northbound from Sevenoaks/Rochester/Ashford so as far as the customers were concerned, the train I was on was an FCC service regardless of whether operationally SE take over south of Blackfriars.

That's a software 'bug' as the system can't cope with more than one operator.

It states clearly in the timetable the arrangement and two TOC's should be announcing it as their service at their station (with Elephant & Castle and Blackfriars being the odd ones out due to the aforementioned bug),

The train you are on is borrow FCC train, not an FCC control train. There's a rather major different and the situation will be sorted out next year as its clear the current system isn't brilliant.