Virgin Trains London-West Midlands route/timetime changes from December?

[LNW-GW Joint]

Maybe not at 2 hour intervals but virgins idea is to run one train daily in each direction. One of the early evening Chester trains from Euston could run to Blackpool instead of Chester meaning one of the morning services from Chester would have to start at Blackpool.

The 2 double evening Holyhead Voyagers split at Chester.
The second unit off the 1710 forms the last Chester-Euston of the day.
The second unit off the 1810 runs to Wrexham and then ECS to Crewe.
In the morning, the 0626 joins with the Lancaster unit at Crewe (as noted above), and the Wrexham unit (ECS from Crewe) joins at Chester to form the 0735.

Not a lot of scope for change there.
Remember Virgin works to a timetable fixed by DfT, and Blackpool and Shrewsbury are not in it (at the moment).
They were not even in the aborted 2012 franchise spec.
They are "optional extras" which Virgin is trying to resource.
Cutting other services to make it happen is not an option.
Having said that, Wrexham is also not in the franchise spec either.

 

[MK Tom]

It does mean that the three VT services from MK to London (ex-Chester, ex-Manchester, ex-Scotland) are now bunched up at one end of the hour.

All within 15 minutes. I do accept this as a price for gaining the direct hourly service to Wolves and beyond, but it adds to the case for having a stop at MKC on either Liverpool or direct Glasgow services.

 

[tractakid]

What time do they pass MK?

 

[The Planner]

Glasgows at xx:58½ and Man Piccs at xx:08½, xx:28½

 

[tractakid]

We already have a Manchester service, so a stop on Liverpool would be nicer. Trouble is the LIV trains are only hourly and they can't stop everywhere, especially as they gain a Crewe stop in December.

 

[dannypye9999]

It would be nice if the Birmingham to Scotland trains made a stop at Stafford as it misses out on a direct train to Preston and beyond, I see no need for three trains an hour Stafford to Liverpool. Also Hartford should serve along the Virgin route like previously in the days of British rail.

 

[sonic2009]

Would Hartford be able to accomadate 9 or 11 car pendos? I don't think so.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It had its platform lengths purged (I can't think of a better word) a couple of years ago - reduced by approx. 40m at the London end so at a guess it could now just about take a 9-car Pendo, but 11 is out of the question (it would perhaps have just fitted beforehand).

 

[sonic2009]

Do 11 cars operate to Liverpool? I don't think we will be seeing Hartford anytime soon.

Although i do agree that Stafford should be added to Birmingham - Scotland

 

[Eagle]

Do 11 cars operate to Liverpool? I don't think we will be seeing Hartford anytime soon.

Yes, in fact they were the first services to have 11-car units introduced.

Of course you could always make the London to Glasgow trains stop at Hartford. Also means they'd get a direct service to Warrington back. Win win.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Of course you could always make the London to Glasgow trains stop at Hartford. Also means they'd get a direct service to Warrington back. Win win.

Cue baffled London commuters who thought they were going to Hertford (North or East).

Hartford's best prospect is from the proposed LM Birmingham-Preston service.
All gone a bit quiet on that one.

 

[Eagle]

All gone a bit quiet on that one.

Basically Network Rail said it would not be possible until the next full WCML recast. That was originally planned for 2013 or 2014, but with the delay of the new WCML franchise it's been pushed back to 2016 or 2017 at the earliest (and may have to wait until the Norton Bridge remodelling is done).

 

[dannypye9999]

Would Hartford be able to accomadate 9 or 11 car pendos? I don't think so.

"Passengers for Hartford please travel in the correction portion of the train due to the short platforms at this station"

Wasn't that the announcement they used to make?

 

[The Planner]

Norton Bridge will be in for Dec 16 which is when they would do the recast.

 

[sonic2009]

Norton Bridge will be in for Dec 16 which is when they would do the recast.

What are the plans for Norton Bridge?

 

[swt_passenger]

The Norton Bridge area plans are usually referred to as a part of the 'Stafford area improvements'. It's to provide grade separation of the route towards Stoke, hence more paths on the main line.

Nothing really to do with the station of the same name...

Phase 3 – Proposed flyover at Norton Bridge. The proposed construction of a grade-separated junction, including 10km of new 100mph railway, 12 new bridge structures, four river diversions, major environmental mitigation works, pipeline, road and footpath diversions and the construction of temporary haul roads. As an infrastructure project of national significance, the scheme is currently subject to a Development Consent Order, which provides the relevant powers and permissions to enable successful delivery of the programme. Upon the granting of the order, main works are scheduled to run from spring 2014 to 2017, with key commissionings in 2016.

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...0m-Stafford-rail-improvements-begin-1d36.aspx

 

[Philip Elliott]

Far from being a branch, Norton Bridge to Macclesfield is the North Staffordshire Railway mainline...

 

[swt_passenger]

Far from being a branch, Norton Bridge to Macclesfield is the North Staffordshire Railway mainline...

Fixed...

 

[Eagle]

Nothing really to do with the station of the same name...

Apart from being in the same place, of course. :P

 

[swt_passenger]

Apart from being in the same place, of course. :P

I was trying to put across that 'Norton Bridge improvements' don't actually affect the station in a positive way, it will still not re-open...

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I was trying to put across that 'Norton Bridge improvements' don't actually affect the station in a positive way, it will still not re-open...

The station is still open - its just that Notwork Rail took away the footbridge and there aren't any trains which call there any more. A rail replacement bus operates and has done so for a decade. Just like Barlaston and Wedgwood.

The question is whether new platforms should have been included within the Transport and Works Act to enable the replacement service to operate.

The reason for a lack of trains calling at the three stations mentioned was a lack of track capacity. Norton Bridge remodelling creates that capacity - so far as Norton bridge goes, so there is no excuse for not re-instating a service - LM pass through 3 times an hour in each direction with suitable stock.

 

[tractakid]

The reason for a lack of trains calling at the three stations mentioned was a lack of track capacity. Norton Bridge remodelling creates that capacity - so far as Norton bridge goes, so there is no excuse for not re-instating a service - LM pass through 3 times an hour in each direction with suitable stock.

I'm sure vast population mass surrounding the station would love a West Coast Main Line train service.

Not sure anyone else on the WCML would like trains being delayed by a stop here.

Yes, the geek in me would love a minimal train service stopping here, but, it won't happen.

 

[The Planner]

The reason for a lack of trains calling at the three stations mentioned was a lack of track capacity. Norton Bridge remodelling creates that capacity - so far as Norton bridge goes, so there is no excuse for not re-instating a service - LM pass through 3 times an hour in each direction with suitable stock.

No it doesn't, the Norton Bridge scheme nails the coffin shut, the platform is on the fast lines which see more services as part of the scheme as well as being sped up. The re-signalling work doesn't allow for the station to be re-opened in it's current guise. LM will use the flyover and have no access to where the station currently is.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

No it doesn't, the Norton Bridge scheme nails the coffin shut, the platform is on the fast lines which see more services as part of the scheme as well as being sped up. The re-signalling work doesn't allow for the station to be re-opened in it's current guise. LM will use the flyover and have no access to where the station currently is.

Hence why platforms should be provided on the new line. Alternatively closure notices should be published and the DFT take it on the chin rather than avoiding the issue. Too frightened after Etruria?

 

[The Planner]

Platforms on the new line would only allow trains to/from Crewe to call in the down unless you moved even further south. Doing the job properly and going for closure is being looked at the last I heard.

 

[Eagle]

Plus the new line is about half a mile away from the old one. So that's not "providing new platforms", that's building a new station.

 

[callum112233]

Just browsing realtimetrains and found this rather unusual (well unusual to me) diagram.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y81743/2013/12/08/advanced

Whats this all about?

 

[dave_wm]

As of today, there's now a generally hourly through London - West Midlands - Scotland service, which is headcoded 9Mxx or 9Sxx to avoid confusion with the services via the Trent Valley, which run as 1Mxx or 1Sxx.

HTH

 

[43074]

It's the first day of the new timetable, and as of today Virgin Trains are combining most of their Scotland to Birmingham services with one of the three trains per hour between Birmingham and London.

Edinburgh to Birmingham

Most Virgin Trains services from Scotland to Birmingham run through to Euston.

 

[callum112233]

Oh I see. I wasn't aware of that. That's quite a journey

parts of the WCML will certainly be alot busier along with the new TPE timetable too.