Swansea to West Wales local services

[Delta558]

Class 158's I think will be ideal for the west wales services as well as the heart of wales line due to the long distances.

Class 158s are only allowed on the Heart of Wales line as empty stock, not in passenger service.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The electrification schemes are simply not going to free up enough DMU's as unless you keep Pacers in service the EMU's in many cases are going to replace stuff sent straight to the breakers. Rural west wales is not exactly at the top of queue either for more DMU's there's still plenty of urban/city region commuter zones in need.

Ex EMT Meridians for Bristol to Portsmouth and some Bristol to West of England semi fasts.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yea, that sounds perfectly logical. Unfortunately all the references on radio this morning have centred around resolving the M4 bottleneck at Newport. One can hope......???

At the moment, Wales does not have a capital budget for rail.
Virtually all the money comes from the England+Wales-level HLOS/SoFA and routed into Network Rail.
That pays for things like electrification, resignalling and IEP, and is pretty much fixed for the next 5 years (CP5).
The WG can add a bit of pocket money for specific local schemes (eg Wrexham-Saltney redoubling).

The new devolution funding proposals do not seem to change this, and only relate to roads (Wales has had roads devolution for some time).
But the detail has yet to emerge.
The DfT has not put anything out suggesting there have been any changes.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Class 158s are only allowed on the Heart of Wales line as empty stock, not in passenger service.

Definately need some suitable stock (SuperSprinters, ie. 155/156) moved to Wales & Borders then. Unless you want to use 2-car 175s on the HOWL services or HOWL can easily be fixed to allow 158s to carry passengers (the Wales & West route map I've got shows HOWL as an Alphaline service, suggesting HOWL was ok for 158s in the past, unless the map is wrong).

 

[swcovas]

Definately need some suitable stock (SuperSprinters, ie. 155/156) moved to Wales & Borders then. Unless you want to use 2-car 175s on the HOWL services or HOWL can easily be fixed to allow 158s to carry passengers (the Wales & West route map I've got shows HOWL as an Alphaline service, suggesting HOWL was ok for 158s in the past, unless the map is wrong).

I think there are minor clearance problems at a couple at a couple of stations which are not insurmountable. A 158 did a return trip attached a service train earlier this year.

 

[craigybagel]

Running Gerald to Fishguard is a ridiculous idea, that service rarely carries more than 2 carriages worth of people. Even if you did want to run it just to free up stock, you have the problem that only Carmarthen depot sign the route and neither the guards nor the drivers there sign the stock.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Generally I agree with clockface timetables, especially in areas served quite frequently - hourly or better.

Outside this frequency, and particularly in areas with capacity restrictions such as single lines with passing loops, would it be far better to match the timetable to likely demand i.e. scholars and commuters whilst at the same time ensuring maximum efficiency in the use of trains and crew? Off-peak leisure trips are less time specific sp long as they are about the time people wish to travel e.g. after breakfast.

As has been pointed out earlier, trains to both Pembroke Dock spend the best part of an hour sitting at the terminus, at Milford Haven it is often half an hour. If this time is also traincrew rest breaks - fine. Otherwise it is a considerable waste of trains and traincrew and therefore money.

Perhaps, west of Carmarthen, the service should be recast, abandoning the clockface timetable?

It may be possible to enhance the Fishguard service as a result.

I see the key problem to the current timetable being the lack of services from urban centres to the west for daytrippers, Fishguard particularly but Tenby is not great either. For example current trains from Swansea to Tenby are 0750 then 1000 (connection at Carmarthen).

A connection / through carriages off the 0904 ex Cardiff, 1058 ex Carmarthen would fit the bill, giving an arrival in Fishguard around 1200.

As an example, not checked for single track occupation, but you get the picture: Depart Whitland 1120, arrive Fishguard 1200, return 1204 to Carmarthen 1257 (connects with the 1302). Depart Carmarthen 1440 (connecting from the 1430 arrival) to Fishguard 1540, return 1604 to Carmarthen 1657 (connects with the 1702).

 

[Rhydgaled]

Running Gerald to Fishguard is a ridiculous idea, that service rarely carries more than 2 carriages worth of people.

The boat train demand seems to fluctuate quite a bit. It is strengthened to 4-car sometimes. Really, it needs to be a 158 when only two coaches are required but what do you do when it needs strengthening? Finding a 2nd 158 would be difficult and attaching a lessor sprinter would reduce the top speed to 75mph.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Running Gerald to Fishguard is a ridiculous idea, that service rarely carries more than 2 carriages worth of people. Even if you did want to run it just to free up stock, you have the problem that only Carmarthen depot sign the route and neither the guards nor the drivers there sign the stock.

Surely it can't be that difficult to train up some Carmarthen crew for the stock or Cardiff? crew for the route? Easier to find 101 reasons not to do something I suppose.

The journey time Cardiff to Fishguard is 2 and a half hours. On the summer day I travelled (before the addional services), the combined 150 / 142 was quite busy, the vast majority travelled throughout and on to the ferry. Only 2 people, myself included, exited the station towards the town. For a journey of that length a better quality of stock is required. I was in the four wheeled wagon with bus seats and the trolley attendent was under instruction not to serve passengers in the 142 as it has no tables for putting hot drinks down on when served.

Gerald happens to be available, at the right times. It makes more efficient use of rolling stock - which everyone states is in such short supply. If Gerald needs feeding and watering, could it run PM Day 1: Cardiff to Holyhead (servicing available overnight). Day 2: Holyhead - Cardiff - Fishguard - Cardiff with Gerald 2 coming out to form the onward service to Holyhead in the PM?

 

[merlodlliw]

Have a look here. Near the end of the article is a quote saying something about canvasing for further community views at the end of the trial.

Network rail made that quote, not the paymaster WG,with all respect

A timetable for the new services was developed following close consultation with a variety of interest groups and the local community in order to ensure that it best fits the needs of the region.

Then its a failure with five hours gaps & no Sunday service,in my opinion
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Class 158s are only allowed on the Heart of Wales line as empty stock, not in passenger service.

Except on Royal Welsh Show days.I have seen 158s parked up at Llandod on arrival from Builth Rd, this may be ten years ago.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Gerald happens to be available, at the right times. It makes more efficient use of rolling stock - which everyone states is in such short supply. If Gerald needs feeding and watering, could it run PM Day 1: Cardiff to Holyhead (servicing available overnight). Day 2: Holyhead - Cardiff - Fishguard - Cardiff with Gerald 2 coming out to form the onward service to Holyhead in the PM?

It is farce to think Gerald needs a six hours service after a five hour journey, but eho will pay for Gerald to go to Fishguard anyway? ATW won't.

 

[PHILIPE]

Class 158's I think will be ideal for the west wales services as well as the heart of wales line due to the long distances.

If what Gareth has been told does turn out to be correct (In fact I will be surprised if it doesnt happen) then the wales & borders franchise would be able to have a uniform fleet of dmu's these being class 158's and 175's. Of course there will be the issue of some branches such as the line to BLaenau festiniog etc.

Additional dmu's would be required for addsitional services to Abergavenny & Chepstow for example and if the Manchester - south wales services are cut back to Cardiff perhaps some trains could be formed by more than one unit providing extra capacity on very busy services. Certainly the Cambrian line would be grateful for additional 158's to provide a boost in capacity for additional carriages on existing services and a few extra services to plug the two hour gaps.

Portion workings would allow the Fishguard services to attach to/from services between Swansea - Pembroke Dock/Milford Haven at Whitland or Claberston road where 2tph should be the maximum with a 2 hourly heart of wales line service running from Swansea to Shrewsbury and beyond Shrewsbury to Crewe
with a few peak time extras to Pontardulais & Ammanford

158s cannot work via the HOW Line due to clearance issues, Llandovery, I think
They can work without passengers and with air bags deflated and have done attached for movement purposes especially when an occupation at Port Talbot overran by 5 days about 6 years ago.

 

[craigybagel]

The boat train demand seems to fluctuate quite a bit. It is strengthened to 4-car sometimes. Really, it needs to be a 158 when only two coaches are required but what do you do when it needs strengthening? Finding a 2nd 158 would be difficult and attaching a lessor sprinter would reduce the top speed to 75mph.

Most of the route is 75 max anyways so top speed isn't much of an issue, when the 158's are on it they don't spend that much time above that.

Surely it can't be that difficult to train up some Carmarthen crew for the stock or Cardiff? crew for the route? Easier to find 101 reasons not to do something I suppose.

Not as easy as you'd think. There is a lot of training that goes in to signing for the stock/route and it's not like there is a surplus of staff available to be released for training either right now. Also, the rosters are such that for the guards at least there is only link, meaning that all of the guards at the depot concerned would need to be trained up. You'd be talking about either ~ 50 guards at Carmarthen, or 90 guards at Cardiff Mainline, plus drivers as well (the drivers are still in links so admittedly you woudn't need to train as many of them). At the moment, Gerald is crewed by small depots which helps keep costs down (Holyhead drivers and guards, plus Shrewsbury guards or 1 link worth of drivers from Crewe). Where do you plan on finding the money to train up more crews?

The journey time Cardiff to Fishguard is 2 and a half hours. On the summer day I travelled (before the addional services), the combined 150 / 142 was quite busy, the vast majority travelled throughout and on to the ferry. Only 2 people, myself included, exited the station towards the town. For a journey of that length a better quality of stock is required. I was in the four wheeled wagon with bus seats and the trolley attendent was under instruction not to serve passengers in the 142 as it has no tables for putting hot drinks down on when served.

For what it's worth, I think it would be great to have more appropriate stock to work the Fishguards, 150s are probably not the most ideal stock for the route, 158's or 175s would be much more appropriate. Unfortunately there aren't enough of them to go around. Again, it's a case of more money is needed to acquire more trains, a case that exists all across the network, but when the franchise was let on a no growth basis, what is the company supposed to do? It is making the most of limited assets, physical and financial.

 

[Tobbes]

The journey time Cardiff to Fishguard is 2 and a half hours.

Is this the best available time via the District Line? I see 3 hours stopping everywhere with a reverse in Swansea, and I would've thought the the Gerald set would have made better time on the SWML and the SDL than that.

Sorry for the dumb question, I'm just curious.

Tobbes

 

[anthony263]

the 10:57 from Cardiff ususally arrives into Fishguard Harbour at 13:20 so 2 hours 22 minutes is achieveable.

 

[Delta558]

the rosters are such that for the guards at least there is only link, meaning that all of the guards at the depot concerned would need to be trained up. You'd be talking about either ~ 50 guards at Carmarthen, or 90 guards at Cardiff Mainline, plus drivers as well (the drivers are still in links so admittedly you woudn't need to train as many of them).

The roster at Carmarthen has always (for the last decade, at least) been one link for the guards and one link for the fully qualified drivers - didn't stop them working the Fishguard specials behind the Class 50s a few years ago with about 12 guards and 10 drivers. Prior to that, Cardiff traincrew would re-learn the route each year for the summer workings. In neither case did the entire link have to learn traction / route.

 

[merlodlliw]

158s cannot work via the HOW Line due to clearance issues, Llandovery, I think
They can work without passengers and with air bags deflated and have done attached for movement purposes especially when an occupation at Port Talbot overran by 5 days about 6 years ago.

When I saw the 158s parked up at Llandod, I presumed they had been used for the Royal Welsh as it was show week. Neither ATW or BR ran specials from the North to the RWS. 150s were used last year to Builth Road.

 

[krus_aragon]

Due to little use of First class & free meals on Gerald usually zero to 3 on most days, one North Wales AM has suggested "Business Class" to replace First, politicians are allowed business class but not First, although this rule was flouted by 2 WG Ministers who were seen in First on Gerald last Month.

Do their rules state not to travel in first class, or that they aren't allowed to claim first class travel as expenses? If the latter, might they have paid for the 'first class upgrade' themselves? (I'm afraid I hadn't seen this in the press, so don't know any of the details.)

 

[Rhydgaled]

Is this the best available time via the District Line? I see 3 hours stopping everywhere with a reverse in Swansea, and I would've thought the the Gerald set would have made better time on the SWML and the SDL than that.

I think the best a 175 or 158 could manage at the moment is 1hr 23-25mins Carmarthen-Cardiff via the SDL stopping at Llanelli, Port Talbot and Bridgend. I think the SDL hasn't been maintained to passenger standards so there are some very low linespeeds which would probably be raised if the route was used by passenger trains more often. It's about 50mins from Carmarthen to Fishguard I think.

Most of the route is 75 max anyways so top speed isn't much of an issue, when the 158's are on it they don't spend that much time above that.

I thought there was quite a bit of 90mph (and some 100mph HST differential) between Briton Ferry and Cardiff.

For what it's worth, I think it would be great to have more appropriate stock to work the Fishguards, 150s are probably not the most ideal stock for the route

Not the most ideal? Worse than that. They are completely unsuitable. So little legroom that even my midget grandmother complained, very few tables, 1/3, 2/3 door arrangment designed for frequent stops (the boat train has only 5 stops).

158's or 175s would be much more appropriate. Unfortunately there aren't enough of them to go around.

Indeed. On the occasions when the boat train is a single 150 I think you could swap the 150 with the 158 that arrives from Pembroke in the morning before messing arround on Ebbw Vale duties. There'd be a little tidying up to do in the evening (eg. one Ebbw Vale needing to be run using the 175 off the Holyhead - Maesteg) but it might work.

However, while you can get one 158 for the boat train, you almost certainly can't get two for when it needs strengthening. The Gerald set is sitting there and seems an obvious solution when the train needs strengthening. The 158 will do nicely the rest of the time.

Again, it's a case of more money is needed to acquire more trains

Or train some staff up to work the Gerald stock west of Carmarthen (it got that far once I think).

158s cannot work via the HOW Line due to clearance issues, Llandovery, I think

Has this always been the case, in which case the Wales&West route map I have is wrong, or is it a recently imposed restriction?

A timetable for the new services was developed following close consultation with a variety of interest groups and the local community in order to ensure that it best fits the needs of the region.

Then its a failure with five hours gaps & no Sunday service,in my opinion

I don't think a Sunday service was on the table, IWJ didn't allocate any monies for it probably. As for the rest of the timetable, I can only guess that the interest groups consulted prior to the full public consultation were concerned that asking for too much would have scuppered the whole thing. They probably saw some good journey oppertunities and decided it wasn't worth arguing. The full public consultation had no obvious effect on the timetable.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the SDL hasn't been maintained to passenger standards so there are some very low linespeeds which would probably be raised if the route was used by passenger trains more often. It's about 50mins from Carmarthen to Fishguard I think.

It might not have been maintained to the linespeeds that you would like, but it has been maintained to passenger standards. Otherwise it woudn't be carrying passenger trains. A comment of this sort could easily re-appear as a headline if some journalist with a little knowledge happened to be googling for an easy story.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It might not have been maintained to the linespeeds that you would like, but it has been maintained to passenger standards. Otherwise it woudn't be carrying passenger trains. A comment of this sort could easily re-appear as a headline if some journalist with a little knowledge happened to be googling for an easy story.

The SDL appears in an NR document as needing to be upgraded as a diversionary route for IEP, the same of the freight line from Port Talbot to Tondu and the bottom half of the Maesteg branch. Unclear whether line speeds were part of agenda.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When I saw the 158s parked up at Llandod, I presumed they had been used for the Royal Welsh as it was show week. Neither ATW or BR ran specials from the North to the RWS. 150s were used last year to Builth Road.

I can remember Chris Gibb sent up the MK2's that were being used on the Rhymney valley commuter trains back in the early 2000's. Class 37 hauled.

 

[Rhydgaled]

It might not have been maintained to the linespeeds that you would like, but it has been maintained to passenger standards. Otherwise it woudn't be carrying passenger trains. A comment of this sort could easily re-appear as a headline if some journalist with a little knowledge happened to be googling for an easy story.

I was only rehashing what I've read on other's posts. Basically what others have said is that becuase very few passenger trains are using it there are some very slow sections which wouldn't exist if they were really intending to use it for frequent passenger use.

 

[edwin_m]

I was only rehashing what I've read on other's posts. Basically what others have said is that becuase very few passenger trains are using it there are some very slow sections which wouldn't exist if they were really intending to use it for frequent passenger use.

That may well be, but there are specific technical standards required for passenger operation, for example in provision of signalling overlaps, and you are incorrectly implying that the line falls short of these. If this was so then Network Rail would be guilty of a safety breach in allowing passenger trains to run without special measures.

 

[merlodlliw]

Do their rules state not to travel in first class, or that they aren't allowed to claim first class travel as expenses? If the latter, might they have paid for the 'first class upgrade' themselves? (I'm afraid I hadn't seen this in the press, so don't know any of the details.)

They can not claim 1st Class travel & are recommended to travel standard.

One of the Ministers alighting at Wrexham knew she had been spotted and scurried along the train to get off from a standard class carriage, much to the amusement of observers but the other Minister remained in First.

They were the sole occupants in First from Cardiff to Wrexham.


[/QUOTE]
I don't think a Sunday service was on the table, IWJ didn't allocate any monies for it probably. As for the rest of the timetable, I can only guess that the interest groups consulted prior to the full public consultation were concerned that asking for too much would have scuppered the whole thing. They probably saw some good journey oppertunities and decided it wasn't worth arguing. The full public consultation had no obvious effect on the timetable.[/QUOTE]

Correct Mon to Sat, 5 trains up & down for £1.4M. My point is Sunday would be an excellent tourist service.

 

[PHILIPE]

Everybody knows a poster's hate of 150s on the Fishguard Boats by now.
If the 158 off the 07 09 Pembroke Dock were to work the Fishguard Boats and which could cause problems platforming appropriately at Cardiff Central, it would be at Maesteg at the time when it MUST work the 20 17 Cardiff to Manchester.
I think this beating the drum for a 158 on the Fishguard Boats has gone on long enough that it can bore people whatever the frustration felt. I think a 158 might be more appropriate myself but with the present Timetable it cannot be achieved and I understand this. The 158s have got to be cycled around.

 

[craigybagel]

I thought there was quite a bit of 90mph (and some 100mph HST differential) between Briton Ferry and Cardiff.

There is a bit, but mostly in short sections in between bits of 75 or less - there are very opportunities for sustained higher speed running. 150's can pretty much keep to time on Manchester runs, and theres a lot more 75+ running there. 150s quite regularly substitute for 175s on West Wales trains without too much effect on time keeping.

Not the most ideal? Worse than that. They are completely unsuitable. So little legroom that even my midget grandmother complained, very few tables, 1/3, 2/3 door arrangment designed for frequent stops (the boat train has only 5 stops).

Indeed. On the occasions when the boat train is a single 150 I think you could swap the 150 with the 158 that arrives from Pembroke in the morning before messing arround on Ebbw Vale duties. There'd be a little tidying up to do in the evening (eg. one Ebbw Vale needing to be run using the 175 off the Holyhead - Maesteg) but it might work.

If it was a simple swap to put the Pembroke 158 on it do you think they woudn't have done it by now? And as Philipe says

If the 158 off the 07 09 Pembroke Dock were to work the Fishguard Boats and which could cause problems platforming appropriately at Cardiff Central, it would be at Maesteg at the time when it MUST work the 20 17 Cardiff to Manchester.

However, while you can get one 158 for the boat train, you almost certainly can't get two for when it needs strengthening. The Gerald set is sitting there and seems an obvious solution when the train needs strengthening. The 158 will do nicely the rest of the time.

Or train some staff up to work the Gerald stock west of Carmarthen (it got that far once I think).

You'd actually need to train staff to work it west of Cardiff - whilst there are I believe some Cardiff drivers trained on it (who could take it as far as Clarbeston Road), there are no longer any guards who do - Shrewsbury and Holyhead are the only guards who sign it. Surely it's a bit unreasonable to expect a company to pay to take staff off their normal duties so they can be trained to work a train on the rare occasions it might get a bit too busy for a 158?

 

[Rhydgaled]

If it was a simple swap to put the Pembroke 158 on it do you think they woudn't have done it by now?

I don't know why they haven't done anything about it, and I understand it wouldn't be that simple, but I think it is probably possible.

You'd actually need to train staff to work it west of Cardiff - whilst there are I believe some Cardiff drivers trained on it (who could take it as far as Clarbeston Road), there are no longer any guards who do - Shrewsbury and Holyhead are the only guards who sign it. Surely it's a bit unreasonable to expect a company to pay to take staff off their normal duties so they can be trained to work a train on the rare occasions it might get a bit too busy for a 158?

I thought the Gerald set got as far as Carmarthen once. How did they do that? And how would the cost of training staff to take Gerald stock to Fishguard compare to the alternative of hiring extra 158s, even assuming another TOC can spare them?

If the 158 off the 07 09 Pembroke Dock were to work the Fishguard Boats and which could cause problems platforming appropriately at Cardiff Central, it would be at Maesteg at the time when it MUST work the 20 17 Cardiff to Manchester.
I think this beating the drum for a 158 on the Fishguard Boats has gone on long enough that it can bore people whatever the frustration felt. I think a 158 might be more appropriate myself but with the present Timetable it cannot be achieved and I understand this. The 158s have got to be cycled around.

I may not have diagramming experience but I am not completely ignorant. I am aware the unit has to work the 20:17 Cardiff to Manchester and thought things through before suggesting it, hence mentioning that the Holyhead - Maesteg unit would have some extra work to do (if my plan falls down somewhere, that unit not having sufficient fuel is probably where it falls down).

Basically the 17:45 off Cheltenham would terminate at Cardiff with a 150 (off 17:40 off Ebbw Vale) taking a 19:12 Cardiff - Maesteg etc. Taking that 150 leaves nothing to cover the 19:35 Cardiff - Ebbw Vale and return. But I think the 175 off the 18:20 Maesteg - Cardiff is in Cardiff and that time so can work that service.

I understand that there are alot of unknowns which could make my specific suggestion unworkable, but I did try to work out what the diagrams are and tried hard not to break anything. I hope I have succeeded.

 

[Taunton]

I sometimes travel from London to Llanelli on weekdays.

What seems something for attention is the way that the HST from London and the semi-fast ATW train chase each other across South Wales just a signal or two apart, then nothing for an hour, when it all repeats.

For example, the 1145 from Paddington gets to Swansea at 1443. All the way from Newport it has chased the ATW train by just a few minutes, and it may well be stopped outside Swansea waiting for it to depart westwards. Passengers from London then have to wait a full 60 minutes for the next train to Llanelli, when exactly the same thing happens again - and you will see the 1245 from Paddington, having left London an hour after you did, stopped at the signal outside the station waiting for you to clear. There are some extras that fill in, but this is the basic inappropriate pattern.

My username gives away a past history at Taunton, where long ago the trains from Paddington found a whole series of connections waiting to head off to Minehead, Barnstaple and local stations to Exeter in the minutes after the main train carried on west. Somehow this sort of thing is impossible nowadays.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I sometimes travel from London to Llanelli on weekdays.

What seems something for attention is the way that the HST from London and the semi-fast ATW train chase each other across South Wales just a signal or two apart, then nothing for an hour, when it all repeats.

For example, the 1145 from Paddington gets to Swansea at 1443. All the way from Newport it has chased the ATW train by just a few minutes, and it may well be stopped outside Swansea waiting for it to depart westwards. Passengers from London then have to wait a full 60 minutes for the next train to Llanelli, when exactly the same thing happens again - and you will see the 1245 from Paddington, having left London an hour after you did, stopped at the signal outside the station waiting for you to clear. There are some extras that fill in, but this is the basic inappropriate pattern.

My username gives away a past history at Taunton, where long ago the trains from Paddington found a whole series of connections waiting to head off to Minehead, Barnstaple and local stations to Exeter in the minutes after the main train carried on west. Somehow this sort of thing is impossible nowadays.

Its running the ATW trains as through trains from the Marches which means the timetable is driven by paths across Crewe station. The numbers traveling from north of Newport west of Cardiff are very small, that's why running a Swansea to Bristol semi fast EMU is much more preferable as it can be in the gap between FGW trains and provide a better service from Swansea, Neath etc.

 

[anthony263]

For those posters asking about when Gerlad was used on a trip to Carmarthen it was covering for a very late running 175 which was suffering from technical problems and was due to be taken out of serviuce once uit got to Cardiff.

In order to keep the service running west of Cardiff Gerald was scrambled out of Canton depot to work a round trip to Carmarthen and back. It certainly cauight some enthusiasts by surprise. I know one one who asked the conducter if he could purchase a ticket onboard save him having to run downstairs to the booking office.

 

[Greenback]

I sometimes travel from London to Llanelli on weekdays.

What seems something for attention is the way that the HST from London and the semi-fast ATW train chase each other across South Wales just a signal or two apart, then nothing for an hour, when it all repeats.

For example, the 1145 from Paddington gets to Swansea at 1443. All the way from Newport it has chased the ATW train by just a few minutes, and it may well be stopped outside Swansea waiting for it to depart westwards. Passengers from London then have to wait a full 60 minutes for the next train to Llanelli, when exactly the same thing happens again - and you will see the 1245 from Paddington, having left London an hour after you did, stopped at the signal outside the station waiting for you to clear. There are some extras that fill in, but this is the basic inappropriate pattern.

It wasn't always like this. The Marches trains used to hang about somewhere and form services to West Wales at xx05 from Swansea. This made for a poor spread of services for local passengers.

The Carmarthen and Milford Haven trains now have connections out of the additional Mon - Fri xx15 services from Paddington, and it was the introduction fo these services that helped ATW to change the timetable to provide more convenient timings from Swansea. The Saturday timetable is pretty similar to the old Mon - Fri timetable and remains that way because of the lack of connections at Cardiff on Saturdays.

ATW is trying to do the best it can within pathing and stock constraints. I for oen think the timetable is much improved from, say, 10 years ago.