Future of the East Coast EMT Rake

[gage75]

Given that E.C. are soon to get the much lamented (time taken too decide to go for it) IEP stock are they likely to refurb the brought in EMT MK3's, as was travelling on this rake on wed31 Oct, I was less than impressed in with the lack of comfort as compared to the regular E.C. MK3's

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Interesting, because when I travel on the ECML I try as far as possible to get the EMT rake because I find the EMT seats far more comfortable than the EC "Mallard" seats...

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think the one the are permanently keeping has been converted but one is still just a long term loan.

 

[yorksrob]

Interesting, because when I travel on the ECML I try as far as possible to get the EMT rake because I find the EMT seats far more comfortable than the EC "Mallard" seats...

Indeed. Very much down to personal preference.

I remember going down to London for work one day and being pleasantly surprised to end up on the EMT one. And there are plenty who prefer the Mallard seats as well.

 

[Aldaniti]

I much prefer the EMT set. Only trouble is, the different seating arrangements bugger up the reservations! Mallard first class is OK but Mallard standard class seats are awful in my opinion, on a par with their equally awful Virgin equivalents. It's harder, designed to be longer lasting, meaning more profit.

 

[edwin_m]

I've been on this a couple of times recently and was pleased to find that it had acquired power sockets and wi-fi. The EMT ones don't have sockets and when I first used this rake on EC it didn't have either sockets or wi-fi. I guess installing wi-fi is fairly cheap but it looks like some fairly serious money has been spent to install the sockets.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's harder, designed to be longer lasting, meaning more profit.

Actually it's designed to meet modern safety standards which have stringent requirements when it comes to things like fire proofing and impact resistance. Meaning that stuffing a seat full of foam is quite hard to do as it needs to not burn and the seatback itself much more substantial. Also it's the same reason why we don't have low backed seating any more as it needs to help restrain the head.

So there's a little more to it that 'more profit'. BR would have been hamstrung in just the same way had it survived.

 

[edwin_m]

Yes it probably means less profit and/or higher fares. Given how rare accidents are, it would be interesting to see a safety cost-benefit of the larger seats.

 

[38Cto15E]

Am I correct in saying that East Midlands Trains HSTs do not have folding armrests in First where as East Coast and First Great Western do have folding arm rests in First Class on their HSTs?

 

[tom1649]

Actually it's designed to meet modern safety standards which have stringent requirements when it comes to things like fire proofing and impact resistance. Meaning that stuffing a seat full of foam is quite hard to do as it needs to not burn and the seatback itself much more substantial. Also it's the same reason why we don't have low backed seating any more as it needs to help restrain the head.

So there's a little more to it that 'more profit'. BR would have been hamstrung in just the same way had it survived.

I think I'd rather have the extra comfort and have the miniscule risk of accident or injury. Interesting that LUL S8 Stock with the transverse seating are low backed. I take it there's an exemption on these.

I much prefer the old IC70 seats to any of the rock hard overly high backed seats we have today.

 

[ainsworth74]

You might (and to an extent I might) but those that draw up the standards disagree.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Am I correct in saying that East Midlands Trains HSTs do not have folding armrests in First where as East Coast and First Great Western do have folding arm rests in First Class on their HSTs?

That is my experience of their first class seating, (whether running on the MML or the ECML).

 

[Suraggu]

East Caast released a press release a few months ago stating that EC64 (EMT Set) will be refurbished to East Coast Standards to make a uniform rake of HST in time for when the Franchise is re-let.

 

[yorksrob]

East Caast released a press release a few months ago stating that EC64 (EMT Set) will be refurbished to East Coast Standards to make a uniform rake of HST in time for when the Franchise is re-let.

Seems rather a waste, considering EMT have only just done it !

 

[387star]

Seems rather a waste, considering EMT have only just done it !

Can they use the old gner colours or would this incur a cost

At least we will see a grey hst!

The set is a mess at the moment with both first great Western and emt seating

 

[swt_passenger]

...Interesting that LUL S8 Stock with the transverse seating are low backed. I take it there's an exemption on these.

There may be major differences between the rules for stock designed for 50 mph and that designed for 125 mph...

 

[Nym]

There may be major differences between the rules for stock designed for 50 mph and that designed for 125 mph...

100km/h...(!)

That's 62mph in Church of England, and before anyone moans that they never get up to 60mph on the Met, they do on the Fast/Main between Harrow OTH and Watford S Jcn and between Watford N Jcn and Ammersham...

 

[3141]

There may be major differences between the rules for stock designed for 50 mph and that designed for 125 mph...

Also, is there a difference in the sort of whiplash neck injury you might suffer if sitting sideways rather than facing forwards or backwards when an accident occurs?

 

[pdq]

Went to London for the day yesterday with the family. HSTs both ways, even though on Leeds to KGX services with no need for diesel. We had a Mallard to KGX and EMT back. Thought the EMT was horrible in comparison - especially for the children (8 and 4) as the seat cushions kept falling off when they perched on the edges to do drawings etc and the armrests were fixed in place. Lighting is also very bright and harsh. In essence, the Mallard felt a cosy, comfortable place to be, but the EMT I would describe as plain and functional.

 

[Mojo]

Also, is there a difference in the sort of whiplash neck injury you might suffer if sitting sideways rather than facing forwards or backwards when an accident occurs?

The S8 stock has both transverse and longitudinal seating.

 

[yorksrob]

Lighting is something that seems to be difficult for train fitters to get right. The 158's have the nicest ambience (with the exception of traditional tungsten lighting).

 

[gage75]

Went to London for the day yesterday with the family. HSTs both ways, even though on Leeds to KGX services with no need for diesel. We had a Mallard to KGX and EMT back. Thought the EMT was horrible in comparison - especially for the children (8 and 4) as the seat cushions kept falling off when they perched on the edges to do drawings etc and the armrests were fixed in place. Lighting is also very bright and harsh. In essence, the Mallard felt a cosy, comfortable place to be, but the EMT I would describe as plain and functional.

would have to agree, at being six foot plus and of a larger than average size to match much prefer the Mallard seating over the EMT set, in particular the armrests

 

[TheEdge]

Yes it probably means less profit and/or higher fares. Given how rare accidents are, it would be interesting to see a safety cost-benefit of the larger seats.

So shall we remove inflatable slides and seatbelts from planes? Lifeboats from ships? Airbags from cars?

I mean who cares if the structural integrity of the 390 is widely regarded as the reason there was only one fatality at Greyrigg but the seats are not very comfy... :roll:

 

[edwin_m]

So shall we remove inflatable slides and seatbelts from planes? Lifeboats from ships? Airbags from cars?

I mean who cares if the structural integrity of the 390 is widely regarded as the reason there was only one fatality at Greyrigg but the seats are not very comfy... :roll:

It's a question of what is appropriate and reasonable. If you seek absolute safety then you'd never get out of bed in the morning (and eventually die of starvation or bedsores).

There is plenty of evidence that most of the other measures you mention are worthwhile in safety terms, although I believe if you wear you seatbelt then airbags are largely redundant.

The structural integrity of the 390, as relevant to Greyrigg, was no different to that of a Mk3 coach, which has experienced several derailments at similarly high speeds with similar high survivability. In fact a high speed derailment in any modern train is eminently survivable unless it hits something solid.

 

[387star]

Is it certain the set will recieve a new interior?

Standardisation with regards coupling and catering has already taken place I believe

 

[ainsworth74]

Standardisation with regards coupling and catering has already taken place I believe

Coupling? An HST rake is an HST rake as far as I'm aware...

So what needed changing about the coupling?