Following instructions after disruption.

[tractakid]

London Midland disruption- my intended train from New Street was cancelled. Asked two different members of staff what I should do- ticket office and platform staff. They both said board the 21:10 Virgin. I'm on the train now, and an announcement has been made explicitly stating this Great Escape ticket was invalid. What do I do if the conductor comes round?

 

[Zoidberg]

London Midland disruption- my intended train from New Street was cancelled. Asked two different members of staff what I should do- ticket office and platform staff. They both said board the 21:10 Virgin. I'm on the train now, and an announcement has been made explicitly stating this Great Escape ticket was invalid. What do I do if the conductor comes round?

I would retaliate first - seek him/her out and explain the situation.

EDIT:

This was Tweeted at 21:16 - I don't know if it means only in the Euston - Birmingham direction.

London Midland ‏@LondonMidland ...

#Northampton Update 8 - Ticket acceptance with @VirginTrains has now been extended from Euston to Birmingham.

...

9:16 PM - 29 Oct 13

 

[tractakid]

Absolutely the right thing to do. Thank you. He basically slated LM and then said he'd let me off because I went to find him.

 

[Zoidberg]

Absolutely the right thing to do. Thank you. He basically slated LM and then said he'd let me off because I went to find him.

Good result

 

[DaveNewcastle]

What an excellent illustration of 'the right thing to do' being put to the test - and being demonstrated to be the correct action.

Good stuff!

(I wouldn't have called it "retalliation" though!)

 

[WelshBluebird]

It is sad that someone not as clued up would have potentially been kicked off or been made to pay more though. Passengers should be able to trust the advice of station staff without having to double check with a different member of staff. (yes I know you have the "man at the station said its ok" problem, but there must be a better way than what the OP had to do).

 

[martinsh]

They both said board the 21:10 Virgin.... What do I do if the conductor comes round?

Faint with surprise - that he left his cubbyhole after 7pm !!!

 

[tractakid]

I'm also glad my phone's battery life lasted to make use of this thread. Thank you very much for your speedy response, Zoidberg.

 

[yorkie]

It is sad that someone not as clued up would have potentially been kicked off or been made to pay more though. Passengers should be able to trust the advice of station staff without having to double check with a different member of staff. (yes I know you have the "man at the station said its ok" problem, but there must be a better way than what the OP had to do).

Agreed, I'd like to see someone politely and assertively point out that they are following instructions, that ticket acceptance is in force, and decline to part with any money, and see what happens. But I don't blame the OP for not wanting to be that person - it's a very intimidating situation to be in, and not everyone can handle that pressure. It's a shame that rail travel is like this at times, I can only think some people want to put people off - it's a unique industry in that respect, like no other.

 

[455driver]

London Midland disruption- my intended train from New Street was cancelled. Asked two different members of staff what I should do- ticket office and platform staff. They both said board the 21:10 Virgin.

Did you tell them what ticket you were using at the time?

 

[beeza1]

Did you tell them what ticket you were using at the time?

Or to put it the other way, did the staff ask you which type of ticket you had?

 

[Fare-Cop]

tractakid has obviously got the right result, but for all others in the future, could we all not help ourselves in a similar situation by taking a couple of steps to secure the ground before likelihood of any problem arising

A traveller in that position would be well-advised to show their ticket to platform/booking office staff and say 'I've got this ticket, my train is cancelled / delayed etc. What train can I catch now?'

When they get the answer say 'thank you for confirming that will be OK, can I take your name please so if anyone asks they will know I've checked'. Make a brief note of the date, time and location

If possible get the station staff to sign the BACK of your ticket.

Well done tractakid and to Zoidberg for such prompt and good advice. If only it were always so easy.

 

[LowLevel]

I'd suggest it may actually be the VT TM who was unaware - ticket acceptance of another operator's tickets is just that, I'm not aware of any differentiation between types of tickets. Maybe VT control hadn't sent it out yet or similar.

 

[SJN]

Last night there was a failed train by Milton Keynes and some LM services were delayed or cancelled and ticket acceptance with Virgin was in place. Therefore, I think the guard was wrong in 'slating LM' and should have just accepted the ticket as it was correct.

 

[tractakid]

I specifically mentioned I needed a London Midland train, although I'm not sure if I mentioned Great Escape. I'm more sure did to the platform staff, though. Ticket office staff didn't ask which ticket I had, presuming I didn't say.
The problem with rail travel, especially when making connections, is that there isn't much time to think. Your advice is great- but when panic sets in, thought processes aren't as clear and logical as they should be.

You are correct, the guard hadn't received notice of the ticket acceptance, but later did after encountering other passengers with LM tickets.

The guard mentioned to me that with my great escape ticket, I was not insured to be on that train. (presuming no official ticket acceptance was in place) That's not something I had thought about before. Anyone know anything more?

 

[Tibbs]

I still have some of those free 'sorry we were such failures' tickets from London Midland hanging about.

I wonder how those would go down?

 

[sheff1]

The guard mentioned to me that with my great escape ticket, I was not insured to be on that train. (presuming no official ticket acceptance was in place) That's not something I had thought about before.

Me neither. I never thought I was 'insured' when on a train *. What are passengers insured against ? How would one make a claim if an event covered by this insurance occurred ?


* other than when undertaking international travel covered by my Travel Insurance

 

[WelshBluebird]

Me neither. I never thought I was 'insured' when on a train *. What are passengers insured against ? How would one make a claim if an event covered by this insurance occurred ?


* other than when undertaking international travel covered by my Travel Insurance

Not heard of it either. And in that case, what about passengers who don't hold tickets because there were no facilities to buy before boarding. Does that mean they wouldn't be covered either? Just sounds like an excuse to me.

 

[sarahj]

I was told a while ago that by buying a ticket, you are entering into a contract. That the railway will carry you from A-B, but if something goes wrong (ie train tips over) you would be compensated. Thus, if you hold no ticket, no contract has been made, and if it went wrong, you would get nothing.
Since, with a LM ticket, your contract was with LM, you would tecnically not be covered by traveling on a Virgin service.

In practice, I'm not sure how it would be enforced. Cannot see yet, RPI's going through casualties after a major prang checking if they have tickets.

Also, of course, if your train was major delayed, its not easy to claim a refund etc if you dont have a ticket.


But dont quote me 100% on this.

 

[sheff1]

Thanks Sarah. Pity I didn't know this when I was on the train which derailed at Pitlochry in September 1983. Presumably too late to claim compensation now !

 

[Tibbs]

So you're saying if there's a train crash and someone who doesn't have a ticket gets killed their family isn't going to get a payout?

I had no contract with the guy that ran me over, but I still got compensation.

 

[Deerfold]

So you're saying if there's a train crash and someone who doesn't have a ticket gets killed their family isn't going to get a payout?

I had no contract with the guy that ran me over, but I still got compensation.

You weren't expecting the guy to safely convey you somewhere.

I suspect you would be covered if you were injured whilst not on the train (e.g. due to a derailment).

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I was told a while ago that by buying a ticket, you are entering into a contract. That the railway will carry you from A-B, but if something goes wrong (ie train tips over) you would be compensated. Thus, if you hold no ticket, no contract has been made, and if it went wrong, you would get nothing.

The Railways have a very high standard of duty of care to passengers and to others on Railway property.
There is ample record of incidences of claims for injury, damage and loss incurred by passengers being met by the Railway Companies.

However, the failure to present a ticket doesn't remove all of these obligations, and in fact, the repeated stories of some people (incl photographers and trainspoters) being refused access to railway property is a good example of the industry's need to limit their exposure to those liabilities. A contract CAN be formed without payment, demonstrated by the actions of both parties, and such "gratuitous passengers" still have the protection of that duty of care.

So you're saying if there's a train crash and someone who doesn't have a ticket gets killed their family isn't going to get a payout?

From your language, I expect that this isn't a sincere enquiry, but . . .
While I can't comment on "gets killed and their family doesn't get a payout", I can assure you that anyone travelling under a Contract, whether evidenced by a ticket or not, will be subject to the same duty of care, and the same degree of proportionate recompense where appropriate. The liability to third parties (their family) will be subject to reasonable assessment - ticket-holding or not.

The protection of a rail passenger appears to me to be substantially more robust when tested in extreme incidents than in some equivalent modes of transport.

 

[Zoidberg]

I think that the introduction of the 'insurance' issue by the VM guard, or whatever may be the correct title, at post #15 is something of a scarlet kipper - a 'red herring', if you will - in the context of the original point of this thread.

 

[455driver]

Or to put it the other way, did the staff ask you which type of ticket you had?

Oh silly me I forgot, its always the staffs duty to interrogate the passenger so they have all relevant details rather than the passengers duty to provide the information isnt it! :roll:

 

[beeza1]

Oh silly me I forgot, its always the staffs duty to interrogate the passenger so they have all relevant details rather than the passengers duty to provide the information isnt it! :roll:

Interrogate the passenger? what a stupid statement to make, surely staff need the details of the ticket so they can give the relevant advice, is it really that difficult to ask "could I see your ticket please", if that is the case I suggest they should not be in a customer facing role.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Interrogate the passenger? what a stupid statement to make, surely staff need the details of the ticket so they can give the relevant advice, is it really that difficult to ask "could I see your ticket please", if that is the case I suggest they should not be in a customer facing role.

Indeed I agree, I would say I have a LM ticket can I use it. The nature of the ticket I would think of as irrelevant as it is valid on my original journey.

If VT are accepting ticks to assist LM I would expect that to be all passengers on all originally valid tickets.

 

[Greenback]

Interrogate the passenger? what a stupid statement to make, surely staff need the details of the ticket so they can give the relevant advice, is it really that difficult to ask "could I see your ticket please", if that is the case I suggest they should not be in a customer facing role.

In an ideal world this would be something to aim for. Unfortunately, in the real world, it is not quite as simple as it may appear.

Many passengers, especially those holding season tickets, get a little annoyed at having to show their tickets. A request to customers to show their tickets whenever they ask a question is not going to be seen positively in all cases. In some instances, particularly with frustrated people during times of disruption, asking to see a ticket might even provoke an aggressive reaction.

Furthermore, some platform staff may not be fully up to speed with the ticketing situation. There is a real risk of confusion as to what the stuff on the ticket actually means. Misinformation is the likely result, along with even greater customer dissatisfaction.

 

[LowLevel]

If someone asks a question where the answer is entirely dependent on the kind of ticket they have, I can't say I've come across anyone who has begrudged showing me their ticket - in fact it's usually brandished at me in advance. Those who ask questions are generally more than happy with complying with anything that will help them get a proper answer.

Those who do begrudge showing tickets generally aren't the ones asking the questions as a) they know the crack and just want to get where they're going with minimal interaction or interference or b) they're fare evaders trying to wing it anyway

As for platform staff and tickets, it's important to know the basics for your area, and it's also important to know when you've reached the limits of your knowledge and to refer people to the booking office.

 

[yorkie]

The guard mentioned to me that with my great escape ticket, I was not insured to be on that train. (presuming no official ticket acceptance was in place) That's not something I had thought about before. Anyone know anything more?

I suggest you put in a complaint about the matter. I am happy to proof read a letter - please PM me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed I agree, I would say I have a LM ticket can I use it. The nature of the ticket I would think of as irrelevant as it is valid on my original journey.

If VT are accepting ticks to assist LM I would expect that to be all passengers on all originally valid tickets.

A small minority of staff really hate it when they are required to accept tickets issued for travel by another Companies trains. If the Company is made aware of this, then the problem can be reduced in future. Problems such as this are rare though, in my experience staff are normally very helpful in times of disruption. I think Tractakid was unlucky, and for the benefit of anyone who has the misfortune to encounter this guard, I think he needs to report the matter.

Sounds rather like a certain infamous Newcastle-based East Coast guard