Detraining a Eurostar - hypothetical

[Lockwood]

All of the discussions of immigration in various threads makes we wander what would happen in this hypothetical scenario.

I don't know how Eurostar actually works, so this has some assumptions:
You leave Paris.
You enter the tunnel
You come out in Kent
You travel through green and pleasant land
You arrive at St Pancras
You have your passport checked


Now, the hypothetical scenario based on that flow events:
Due to an incident, it is deemed necessary to detrain the passengers (I'm not going to say which incident, for fear of opening the "Does that need detraining" debate)
Part of detraining is working out where to go, how, and trying to shepherd everyone there.
Does this process change if you needed to detrain Eurostar?

I am assuming that the potential risk to life or limb would be a higher priority than border control?
Would everyone get shepherded to a place of safety and held until UKBA turn up? If so, how?
Would they just let that trainload of people slide?

 

[Sacro]

I'm pretty sure passport control is done prior to boarding.

 

[Suraggu]

Passport checks are completed prior to boarding in Brussels, Paris & London

 

[Lockwood]

Ah, I thought they were done both ends.

 

[stut]

They are done at both ends on Brussels->London services, due to the "Lille Loophole".

(The Brussels-London services carry Brussels-Lille passengers. It's illegal for UKBF in Brussels to ask Lille passengers for passports/national ID under Schengen rules, and so simply having an extended bowel movement through Kent was enough to get you to London sans immigration.)

 

[swt_passenger]

I expect there will be a pre-determined alternative/diversionary destination if St Pancras happened to become non-available during a journey that was already in progress, probably Ashford, or possibly even Stratford International.

Back in the days of Waterloo, there was apparently a fallback facility to detrain at Kensington Olympia.

 

[furgus2]

Yes, that's right about Kensington Olympia. I can remember the evening back in, I think, 2001, when, after several hours stuck on the flyover on to the lines into Waterloo, the Eurostar train reversed and then made its way to Kensington Olympia where we detrained without any of the usual customs/police checks common at the time

 

[jopsuk]

HS1 has rather more security fencing than normal lines. I'd imagine that if a trainload had to evacuate not at a station (ideally, they'd pull into Ashford, Ebbsfleet or Stratford) that the first line of defence is that fence. There may then be powers in place allowing the police and UKBA to put everyone on replacement transport, move them to a suitable facility and process them.

Undoubtably there will be a procedure in place for this, but not one that's publicly available.

 

[34D]

Passport checks are completed prior to boarding in Brussels, Paris & London

When I boarded in Lille the platform suddenly became a secure area, we had to go back to the concourse, and then show passports to UKBA staff.

Silly really. Let's join Schengen.

 

[Harlesden]

Been on Eurostar twice - in the Paris-London direction - passport checked prior to boarding and also on the train as well as on arrival in London.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Been on Eurostar twice - in the Paris-London direction - passport checked prior to boarding and also on the train as well as on arrival in London.

How long ago was that? I travel 2 - 3 times a year and haven't had an on board or arrivals check from Paris since about 15 years ago.

 

[jopsuk]

Silly really. Let's join Schengen.

Yes, this country needs to grow up when it comes to immigration and border security. Some people claim that the open border arranagement with Ireland makes going into Schengen a problem, but I bet that if we saild we were joining the irish would apprecaite they had little choice but to join too.

 

[stut]

Yes, this country needs to grow up when it comes to immigration and border security. Some people claim that the open border arranagement with Ireland makes going into Schengen a problem, but I bet that if we saild we were joining the irish would apprecaite they had little choice but to join too.

The CTA is an odd beast (and it affects the Channel Islands and Isle of Man as well, as they have different, but overlapping, immigration rules).

One of Ireland and the UK joining Schengen without the other would be political suicide.

But I fully agree - we need to grow up.

 

[sarahj]

IIRC. Ireland would have like to join Schengen but on being told it would end the open border between the UK and IRL it became a non starter.

TBH the controls coming back into the UK are starting to remind me what it used to be like crossing the old iron curtain. Slow queues, questions on why you have bought so much railway stuff over the channel, and not in the UK, etc etc.

The problem is when they are here, the atttitude. I've seen ones at Gatwick given a ticket to East croydon to make their own way to the immigration centre. And then we wonder why they go missing. Or info in many languages on how to claim. I was in Germany, info was in German, or in German.

 

[A-driver]

Not sure if it's changed since Waterloo and domestic lines stopped seeing Eurostar trains but my KSW sectional appendix issued to me by southern many years ago has something in it about detraining Eurostar sets along the lines of you can't without specific permission from the authorities. Can't remember specifics and my KSW SA is currently gathering dust under other rubbish in my loft so not easy to look up but there certainly was something in there to do with immigration and evacuation.

 

[shinkansen1966]

The CTA is an odd beast (and it affects the Channel Islands and Isle of Man as well, as they have different, but overlapping, immigration rules).

One of Ireland and the UK joining Schengen without the other would be political suicide.

But I fully agree - we need to grow up.

Good point.

If the UK left the EU, you'd have the potential for the Irish loophole. Republic of Ireland would still be in the EU (free movement of people) and the UK would be outside. Anyone wanting to come to the UK from the EU, could travel from any part of the EU to the Republic of Ireland, then on to the UK via Northern Ireland.

 

[radamfi]

TBH the controls coming back into the UK are starting to remind me what it used to be like crossing the old iron curtain

In some ways it is worse. I used to travel across to Hungary a lot in the 80s and border guards checked your passport on the train. No need to get off.

If the UK left the EU, you'd have the potential for the Irish loophole. Republic of Ireland would still be in the EU (free movement of people) and the UK would be outside. Anyone wanting to come to the UK from the EU, could travel from any part of the EU to the Republic of Ireland, then on to the UK via Northern Ireland.

Certainly there would be nothing to stop someone from within the EU entering the UK via the Republic of Ireland. However, even now, someone who needs a visa wanting to visit both Ireland and the UK needs to get a separate visa for each country. Many people go through Northern Ireland to circumvent this requirement. Occasional checks on cross border buses and trains try to pick up on this.

Visiting the UK would not really change much whether or not the UK leaves the EU, given that passports and visas are already checked routinely. In fact, although unlikely, the UK could leave the EU and join Schengen, given that the non-EU countries of Switzerland, Norway and Iceland allow EU citizens the freedom to live and work and enter the country without passport checks.

 

[Electrostar]

In the 1990s I was stood at Kent House station waiting for a train to Victoria when a Eurostar heading to Waterloo International was stopped in the loop platform. A door opened and staff got out to allow an ambulance crew access. If I recall the passenger was taken away on a stretcher. Eurostars are of course rather long and I remember it snaking way past the end of the platform. I want to say it blocked the main line and delayed regular services but I can't be sure, it might have simply been a half-hourly service back then.

 

[eps200]

In some ways it is worse. I used to travel across to Hungary a lot in the 80s and border guards checked your passport on the train. No need to get off.

Does anyone know why we can't do this? every train has to call ebsfeet and calais, some europol badged immigration guys go round and round checking passports if you dont have documents you get cuffed and sent back to the other side for processing in a van or on the next train if there is space.

 

[A-driver]

Does anyone know why we can't do this? every train has to call ebsfeet and calais, some europol badged immigration guys go round and round checking passports if you dont have documents you get cuffed and sent back to the other side for processing in a van or on the next train if there is space.

I seem to remember when I first went in Eurostar they did check passports on the train. Can't remember if this was instead of or in addition to either station though.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I seem to remember when I first went in Eurostar they did check passports on the train. Can't remember if this was instead of or in addition to either station though.

It was in addition to.

 

[Bungle73]

They are done at both ends on Brussels->London services, due to the "Lille Loophole".

(The Brussels-London services carry Brussels-Lille passengers. It's illegal for UKBF in Brussels to ask Lille passengers for passports/national ID under Schengen rules, and so simply having an extended bowel movement through Kent was enough to get you to London sans immigration.)

Are you sure about that? I've just come back from Lille and I walked straight through with no checks at St. Pancras. My passport was checked at Lille, by French (for some reason) and British passport control.

 

[Roverman]

They are done at both ends on Brussels->London services, due to the "Lille Loophole".

(The Brussels-London services carry Brussels-Lille passengers. It's illegal for UKBF in Brussels to ask Lille passengers for passports/national ID under Schengen rules, and so simply having an extended bowel movement through Kent was enough to get you to London sans immigration.)

 

[stut]

Are you sure about that? I've just come back from Lille and I walked straight through with no checks at St. Pancras. My passport was checked at Lille, by French (for some reason) and British passport control.

Seems like they're not enforcing it on every train at present, then.

The French passport control you had would be a Schengen exit control - standard procedure when leaving a Schengen zone country.