Cheaper but slower routes and alternative routes

[Perns1972]

I'm looking to compile a list of alternative routes, or cheaper but slower routes in the UK. I wonder whether you can help.

I'd like to find out alternative ways of travelling around the country which might save money, take a bit longer or might actually save you money.

These are the kind of routes I'm interested in.....do you know any more like these?

I'm particlualrly interested in alternative routes in the North of England, the Midlands, Wales and Scotland.

i. Cheaper but slower and alternative routes
London Waterloo to Southampton - £38 anytime, 1hr 34
London Victoria to Southampton - £27.90 anytime, 2hr 44
London to Birmingham (Virgin, London Midland, Chiltern)
London to Southend (C2C and GA)

ii. Cheaper, but roughly the same time
London Victoria to Gatwick - Southern services v Gatwick Express.
London to Brighton - FCC v Southern

Many thanks

 

[soil]

There are literally hundreds of thousands of tickets where you can choose between two or more routes.

Tickets between Manchester and Blackburn routed via Preston, or not, Hartlepool (or many other local stations) to York via Darlington, or not, many thousands of tickets routed 'any permitted' (via London) or 'not via London'.

It's not really a possible task.

 

[yorkie]

To clarify, I think you are asking for "normal" tickets, and not "loophole" tickets, right?

(better make this clear otherwise we'll get someone posting with a list of really cheap tickets valid over long, circuitous routes )

 

[Perns1972]

Absolutely right, Yorkie.

I'm looking for normal tickets (rather than loophole tickets) and options that might seem obvious to those in the know, but not so to people who rarely use the railways.

Thanks for helping me to clarify.

 

[yorkie]

Assuming we are talking about "walk-up" tickets only..

In all cases there is an operator who sets the lead fare, which is valid on all permitted routes by any of the operators listed (and any other who also runs on part of the route).

i. Cheaper but slower and alternative routes
London Waterloo to Southampton - £38 anytime, 1hr 34
London Victoria to Southampton - £27.90 anytime, 2hr 44

Sort-of, but I'd describe it that SWT set the fare for this, with a Southern only fare available for travel from Victoria.

London to Birmingham (Virgin, London Midland, Chiltern)

I'd say Virgin set the fares for this, but London Midland offer their own tickets which are for their stopping trains on the same route, while Chiltern offer fares which are valid by any operator but for the route via the Chilterns.

London to Southend (C2C and GA)

I'd say there are 2 routes, each route is set by their respective operator, and in this case it's not easy to buy a ticket that offers flexibility of route (but it can be done!)

There are many others.

Some are set by the same operator, such as Middlesbrough - York being considerably cheaper avoiding Darlington, but both routeing options are set by Transpennine Express.

ii. Cheaper, but roughly the same time
London Victoria to Gatwick - Southern services v Gatwick Express.
London to Brighton - FCC v Southern

A debate on the first one can run into several pages. If you want to include it, then you need to explain both sides of the debate, and the two Companies who are in competition are Southern and FCC. Gatwick Express is operated by Southern.

London to Brighton is a case of Southern setting the fare, with FCC having their own operator specific fares.

There are many more examples of this, such as where Virgin do not set the fare, and offer a fare for their own services: Crewe-Manchester, Stoke-Manchester, the Wolverhampton-Birmingham-Coventry-Rugby route, and so on.

 

[telstarbox]

Manchester Victoria - Hebden Bridge - Leeds (Northern) is cheaper than Manchester Piccadilly - Huddersfield - Leeds (TPE).

 

[yorkie]

Northern set fares for routes which are slower, for which TPE set the 'Any Permitted' inter-available fares, there are a huge number of routes where this is the case.

I think it would simply be best to offer a summary, or some examples between major cities, because you could be there forever listing them all!

But it's important to get the message across that, in the vast majority of cases, the more expensive fare is valid on all operators on any permitted routes, and the cheaper fare is either restricted to a specific (often slower) geographical route OR restricted to a specific operator (which is typically either slower or less frequent, or occasionally both).

A geographic route restriction (e.g. BHM - London route: High Wycombe) can be upgraded for use on the more expensive route on payment of, in the case of a return, half the difference per leg on board the train (e.g. to use Virgin Trains) but an operator specific restriction (e.g. BHM - London route: LM Only) has no value whatsoever on a Chiltern/Virgin train and cannot be upgraded and can result in a new full fare ticket or even a Penalty Fare (if applicable to the operator you use).

 

[Perns1972]

Absolutely right Yorkie - I'm keen to hear about walk-up tickets.

I'm writing an article on train fares and I'd like to be able to offer readers a few interesting options to get from A to B that they might not have considered and might save them a few quid.

Matt
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Manchester Victoria - Hebden Bridge - Leeds (Northern) is cheaper than Manchester Piccadilly - Huddersfield - Leeds (TPE).

Many thanks for this - I wasn't aware of this one.
Matt

 

[dvboy]

Wolverhampton - Leeds via Manchester, significantly cheaper than Any Permitted which is valid via Birmingham/Derby

 

[John @ home]

I'm writing an article on train fares and I'd like to be able to offer readers a few interesting options to get from A to B that they might not have considered and might save them a few quid.

I think your essential tool is the unofficial site brfares.com which uses a copy of the train companies' fares database. Exploring city-to-city fares will probably give the best examples from a journalistic point of view.

One of the greatest potential savings is Leeds to Glasgow. In Standard accommodation, the £205 Anytime Return can largely be ignored because the £98.10 Off-Peak Return is valid by any train except those scheduled to depart before 05:00 Monday to Friday by any permitted route (that is, via Appleby, Penrith, Workington or York).

But the hidden gem on the Leeds - Glasgow route is the £52.50 Anytime Return via Appleby. This gives leisurely travel through the Pennines on the Settle - Carlisle line, followed by a high speed sprint over Scotland's southern uplands.

If the deadline for your article is before 16 November, you may wish to mention the TransPennine Express Club 55 offer. This gives the biggest saving in First Class. Until that date, the £335.00 Leeds - Glasgow First Class Anytime Return has a £42.00 competitor for passengers aged 55 or over. This First Class Club 55 return is valid by any TransPennine Express train except those scheduled to depart before 09:30 Monday to Friday. The restriction to one train company means a change of train is needed, normally at Manchester Piccadilly.

Please post us a link to your article when it's finished. Good luck!

 

[Perns1972]

Thanks for this one Dvboy, that's really helpful.

 

[Deerfold]

But the hidden gem on the Leeds - Glasgow route is the £52.50 Anytime Return via Appleby. This gives leisurely travel through the Pennines on the Settle - Carlisle line, followed by a high speed sprint over Scotland's southern uplands.

With a bonus of letting you travel in First Class with Virgin between Carlisle and Glasgow.

 

[soil]

Previous thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=83883

In brief:

'Via Appleby' is cheap
'Via Warminster & Salisbury' is also cheap
'Via Barnham' fares are the cheapest south of London
'Via High Wycombe' is code for 'fares designed for use on Chiltern Trains towards and beyond Birmingham' are cheaper than those routed Any Permitted and intended for use on Virgin
'London Midland Only' is likely to be much cheaper than Any Permitted tickets intended for use on Virgin.
'Grand Central Only' is much cheaper than Any Permitted tickets valid on East Coast
'Hull Trains Only' are cheaper than Any Permitted tickets valid on East Coast

 

[LexyBoy]

May I say something on the subject of "saving money on rail travel" type articles (which it appears you are writing). The focus of these articles, IME, is very much along the lines of saving money on a single, there-and-back journey. That's all well and good, but it tends to reinforce the idea of rail travel as being inflexible - I think it's important that people realise that many tickets are more flexible than they think, as people often buy more expensive tickets than they need. For example, breaking a journey to visit friends, or making a triangular journey using one return ticket, by using different routes. Or that an excess can be obtained to travel at peak time, rather than buying a new ticket.

On topic - a well-known one for intercity travel is the Waterloo-Exeter route, which gives Via Honiton (or similar) fares for many South East - South West routes. Furthermore, it counts as part of the Network Area so a Network Railcard can be used to get a further discount - pretty good when the Network Area stops at Didcot on the GWML! (If travelling beyond Exeter on this route, it's usually worth splitting at Exeter in order to be able to use a Network Railcard).

Similarly, there are Warminster-Salisbury fares for South East - Bristol (and environs) journeys, though the Network Railcard can't be used here. This route is less competitive than the Exeter route though; the time difference compared to Paddington trains is pretty big and through trains are infrequent.

 

[jopsuk]

Simple one:
Cambridge to London and beyond: cheaper to go to/via Liverpool Street (Greater Anglia only) than to Kings Cross. Extending further, Portsmouth (and other destinations?) has a "Route: Southern & AGA" fare to/from Cambridge- the "Any Permitted" fare allows the use of SWT and/or FCC.

 

[John @ home]

With a bonus of letting you travel in First Class with Virgin between Carlisle and Glasgow.

On weekends and bank holidays.

 

[Deerfold]

On weekends and bank holidays.

Indeed. That was in my head but didn't seem to reach my fingers.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

'Via High Wycombe' is code for 'fares designed for use on Chiltern Trains towards and beyond Birmingham' are cheaper than those routed Any Permitted and intended for use on Virgin

It is sort of code for Chiltern only, but does also allow the option, if travelling through New Street of avoiding the walk to Moor Street. So it's then XC via Coventry and change somewhere between Leamington and Banbury.

Many of these options are what remained post Beeching of competition between pre 1923 Railway Companies. Thus Birmingham, Exeter and Cambridge, for example all still have two main line routes to London, even if one of them has been downgraded to slower trains only.

 

[Muzer]

With a bonus of letting you travel in First Class with Virgin between Carlisle and Glasgow.

What's this? I seem to remember reading about something like this but can't remember the details.

 

[John @ home]

Standard Class Anytime Single/Return (Ticket types SOS/SOR only)

Customers travelling using this product on a Saturday, Sunday or Bank Holiday can upgrade to First Class on Virgin Trains services FREE OF CHARGE. This includes Railcard and Privilege discounted Anytime tickets.

 

[johnnycache]

It might also be worth pointing out that some normal fares are very flexible and very cheap

for example the fares set by Southern for journeys across the south of England such as-

Ashford to Southampton £15 off-peak day return (route Barnham)
Ramsgate to Bournemouth £24 off-peak day return (route Barnham)

On many Southern off-peak fares accompanied children travel for £1

Throughout the southeast (and beyond) 4 passengers can travel off-peak for the price of 2 adults (plus up to 4 additional children at £1 each)

So there are a lot of great deals without having to get into anything very technical like dedicated tickets or split tickets

 

[soil]

Those two particular 'via Barnham' tickets are certainly flexible, but to go any other route than (Ramsgate-)Ashford - Hastings - Lewes - Brighton - Havant - Southampton(-Bournemouth) you unfortunately would have to get technical or else risk confrontation with TOC staff.